Ladies Free Skate

[jiggs]

Carolina's PCS inflated?! No way. She skated really well yesterday and deserved to win bronze. The jumps that she did were clean and beautiful, wonderful technique. Hands down to her for skating like this in front of her homecrowd

 

[netnuts]

Carolina made the podium thanks to her inflated PCS scores, while Zhang's were held down. However, I don't ever see Carolina beating Kim or Asada, and at Worlds, Carolina may face other skaters who can put together two cleaner programs than she can. And Carolina is 'off' more often than she is 'on'.

I don't think Carolina's PCS was inflated. She has nice speed/ice coverage/flow/edge, her PCS should be on par with Yu Na Kim & Mao. I think Carolina won bronze fair and square.

As much as I like Zhang, she is too slow compared to Yu Na Kim/Mao/Carolina...

 

[bekalc]

I don't think Carolina's PCS was inflated. She has nice speed/ice coverage/flow/edge, her PCS should be on par with Yu Na Kim & Mao. I think Carolina won bronze fair and square.

As much as I like Zhang, she is too slow compared to Yu Na Kim/Mao/Carolina...

Exactly, and Carolina's well her edges are divine. The issue with Carolina is that her speed isn't well controlled. However, considering how well she skated, it seems like she controlled it quite well this time. No doubt in my mind that this podium is fair.

 

[gourry]

Do not worry about Mao's jumps. There is no underrotation or undergrade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeTzmkLpXCE



Judges are more strict with Mao than Yuna. That must be their policy. That policy could be changed by the next Olympics.



Mao's 3A is perfect. However, 8 out of 10 judges give negative GOE(-1). How unfair it is!



However, Yuna's flip is a lip. Cheating jumps should not be counted.

http://www.uploda.org/uporg1157873.zip.html



I think Yuna has peaked. She has already used up all her potential as a skater. There are not so much room to grow from now. Jumpwise, she will never master a 3A. Though Mao has already gone through her pubescent body change, Yuna has not yet. Yuna can not keep her washboard-like breast forever.

OMG, everyone look!!!
I-am-better-than-doctor-judge-specialist-and-I-know-everything TIARA is BACK!!!!

I thought tiara is blocked or something. hmm...I mean, shouldn't s/he..? hwell:

 

[chuckm]

Each to his own. To my eyes, Carolina still is slightly klutzy and her ballerina-type costumes only make her look more awkward and coltish.

Carolina may be fast, but she slows down and raises her arms and her foot several seconds before she jumps, as if to say: hey, everybody, look, I'm going to JUMP! She has taken Irina Slutskaya's place as the #1 ladies' telegrapher.

Carolina also got easy treatment from the TS and the judges. During her spiral sequence, she tried to grab her leg for a Biellmann variation, and she couldn't quite reach it. She had to abort the attempt because she almost lost her balance. Yet she still got a level4 on the sequence, and no -GOE. She popped the flip and didn't get -GOE on it. Usually when a skater doesn't complete a jump, the result is 0. She got 0.5 for the pop.

 

[fourclover]

OMG, everyone look!!!
I-am-better-than-doctor-judge-specialist-and-I-know-everything TIARA is BACK!!!!

I thought tiara is blocked or something. hmm...I mean, shouldn't s/he..? hwell:

We need more comedians like Tiara in figure skating world.

 

[netnuts]

Carolina may be fast, but she slows down and raises her arms and her foot several seconds before she jumps, as if to say: hey, everybody, look, I'm going to JUMP! She has taken Irina Slutskaya's place as the #1 ladies' telegrapher.

.

I agree with you on 'telegrapher' description. But I love it! I think it shows her tremedous ice coverage(from board to board) before a big jump....

I hate Slutskaya's telegraphing though...

As you said, different taste...

 

[chuckm]

Ummm, Tiara, Sasha Cohen is 23 and she still has a washboard chest. Yu-Na has a lanky bodytype that very often remains flatchested well into the 20s and beyond. Carolina Kostner is built like that (although she is bigger-boned) and she is still quite flatchested at almost 21.

 

[zigzig]

Sometimes Mao's jumps look two-footed because she can be really slow to get her free leg behind her when she lands which might explain some of the negative GOEs on her jumps that look otherwise fine.

 

[bekalc]

We need more comedians like Tiara in figure skating world.

Yeah, now I find Tiara amusing... Besides, it's kind of sad day for her don't you think. Yu-na falls and still scores almost the same amount of points as Mao...

 

[fourclover]

I just watched Mao's FS and Yuna's FS. I'm at work so I have to mute the sound and guess what I noticed right away. Without music, Mao's choreography looks less interesting than Yu-na's. Also, I noticed that it takes Mao longer to prepare her jumps than Yu-na and Yu-na's program has more intricate moves that she incorporates well into her "flow" across the ice. I can see why Yu-na's FS scores were only slightly lower than Mao's even with her fall. Wow, judges have sharp eyes.

 

[CalebsMom]

I think Yuna has peaked. She has already used up all her potential as a skater. There are not so much room to grow from now. Jumpwise, she will never master a 3A. Though Mao has already gone through her pubescent body change, Yuna has not yet. Yuna can not keep her washboard-like breast forever.

Gosh, you are plain mean.

 

[Bennett]

Sometimes Mao's jumps look two-footed because she can be really slow to get her free leg behind her when she lands which might explain some of the negative GOEs on her jumps that look otherwise fine.

I haven't notice her free leg being slow. But today she looked to me to be a bit rushed in her check position. She moved onto the next moves before holding the check position long enough to really demonstrate the flow of the jump. But wait, are we actually referring to the same thing??

Anyway, I felt that she might have slightly two-footed her 3A and 3F-3T. But they looked so subtle that I cannot really see without a close slow motion. It might have been just an impression made by the quick check out from the jump as I described above. But I guess the judges had better eyes than I.

 

[Wrlmy]

Ummm, Tiara, Sasha Cohen is 23 and she still has a washboard chest.

Uhmm, Hello? You've missed something

 

[feraina]

I'm as big a Caroline fan as they come, probably, and I also thought Carolina K deserved the bronze medal today.

I feel like Mao should've won, because that LP was phenomenal. It was the technically most demanding program ever skated by a woman (and ought to have beaten Johnny for 4th place in the men's competition, IMHO), and she carried it off with ease and artistry. It would've been close if Yu-na had skated clean, despite the 5-point set-back for Mao in the SP, but with Yu-na having a fall on the 3R, well, to me it was clear Mao deserved the gold. There was no rhyme or reason to the lower PCS scores Mao recieved. If the judging system doesn't have room to reward Mao for skating such an ambitious and well-executed program, and improving on so many aspects of her skating this season, then, well, something is definitely wrong with this judging system!

I'm glad Caroline is really making progress. I don't know how high her ceiling is, but at least there's a hope.

That is a good question. With some strength and stamina training, and more competitions under her belt, her PCS will eventually rise. Yu-na was not skating faster than Caroline at 14, and now she's quite a strong and powerful skater -- these are the main components that drive the PCS (plus reputation and judge's preferences, of course). So I think how far Caroline can go eventually will depend on the TES: she had the highest TES in the SP and the third highest in the LP. I can't really see her ever gaining the kind of huge jumps that Yu-na has, nor learning the 3A. But I think she can improve on her step sequences in the off season and up both the level and GOE there, and her spins (other than the layback) can be improved further -- such that her higher GOE's on the spins and spirals will counteract her lower GOE's on the jump. But the most important thing for her, is to correct that flutz. Her flip and lutz might both suffer for a while as she relearns the jumps, but I think in the long term she really needs this.

Think how far Sasha could've gotten if she had only managed to land her jumps cleanly in competition, even though she didn't have the 3-3's nor the 3A. Caroline can attain the spirals and spins of Sasha (on the spins front possibly surpass her), and she already has a solid 3-3 at 14, and she's mentally tougher in competition. I think if she can grow a couple inches taller and get stronger, as well as correcting her flutz, over the next two years, then she definitely has the potential of challenging Mao & Yu-na (consistently) in the next Olympic cycle.

 

[fourclover]

I feel like Mao should've won, because that LP was phenomenal. It was the technically most demanding program ever skated by a woman (and ought to have beaten Johnny for 4th place in the men's competition, IMHO), and she carried it off with ease and artistry. There was no rhyme or reason to the lower PCS scores Mao recieved. If the judging system doesn't have room to reward Mao for skating such an ambitious and well-executed program, and improving on so many aspects of her skating this season, then, well, something is definitely wrong with this judging system!

I've just watched Mao's LP and I can see why Yu-na won even with her fall AND Mao's PCS scores make perfect sense to me. For Mao, Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu does HALF the work for her. Watch her skate without music and her program looks bland and why does she take so long to prep her jumps? I wasn't impressed at all with her LP. Hardly phenomenal. Also, Mao left out an entire element - her FLUTZ - in her SP, AND she still got pretty high scores for it. So, do the math; SP counts too.

 

[netnuts]

Yeah, now I find Tiara amusing... Besides, it's kind of sad day for her don't you think. Yu-na falls and still scores almost the same amount of points as Mao...

Yeah, but is it fair? I guess to ulber Kimaniac, everything is fair as far as she scores higher...

It is disgusting.

 

[gourry]

I feel like Mao should've won, because that LP was phenomenal. It was the technically most demanding program ever skated by a woman (and ought to have beaten Johnny for 4th place in the men's competition, IMHO), and she carried it off with ease and artistry. It would've been close if Yu-na had skated clean, despite the 5-point set-back for Mao in the SP, but with Yu-na having a fall on the 3R, well, to me it was clear Mao deserved the gold. There was no rhyme or reason to the lower PCS scores Mao recieved. If the judging system doesn't have room to reward Mao for skating such an ambitious and well-executed program, and improving on so many aspects of her skating this season, then, well, something is definitely wrong with this judging system!

I agree Mao did great today.
However, Mao two-footed both her 3A and 3F-3T and got more deduction over all for those than Yuna got for her fall.
Maybe Mao's LP was not also really clean after all...

Anyway, I really can't wait to see the Worlds!!!

 

[mizu_iro]

I'm as big a Caroline fan as they come, probably, and I also thought Carolina K deserved the bronze medal today.

I feel like Mao should've won, because that LP was phenomenal. It was the technically most demanding program ever skated by a woman (and ought to have beaten Johnny for 4th place in the men's competition, IMHO), and she carried it off with ease and artistry. It would've been close if Yu-na had skated clean, despite the 5-point set-back for Mao in the SP, but with Yu-na having a fall on the 3R, well, to me it was clear Mao deserved the gold. There was no rhyme or reason to the lower PCS scores Mao recieved. If the judging system doesn't have room to reward Mao for skating such an ambitious and well-executed program, and improving on so many aspects of her skating this season, then, well, something is definitely wrong with this judging system!



That is a good question. With some strength and stamina training, and more competitions under her belt, her PCS will eventually rise. Yu-na was not skating faster than Caroline at 14, and now she's quite a strong and powerful skater -- these are the main components that drive the PCS (plus reputation and judge's preferences, of course). So I think how far Caroline can go eventually will depend on the TES: she had the highest TES in the SP and the third highest in the LP. I can't really see her ever gaining the kind of huge jumps that Yu-na has, nor learning the 3A. But I think she can improve on her step sequences in the off season and up both the level and GOE there, and her spins (other than the layback) can be improved further -- such that her higher GOE's on the spins and spirals will counteract her lower GOE's on the jump. But the most important thing for her, is to correct that flutz. Her flip and lutz might both suffer for a while as she relearns the jumps, but I think in the long term she really needs this.

Think how far Sasha could've gotten if she had only managed to land her jumps cleanly in competition, even though she didn't have the 3-3's nor the 3A. Caroline can attain the spirals and spins of Sasha (on the spins front possibly surpass her), and she already has a solid 3-3 at 14, and she's mentally tougher in competition. I think if she can grow a couple inches taller and get stronger, as well as correcting her flutz, over the next two years, then she definitely has the potential of challenging Mao & Yu-na (consistently) in the next Olympic cycle.

I don't think the protocols are wrong. Mao pulled off an incredible free, but the 3A and 3F-3T were not wonderful and her flutz is as glaring as ever - hence the negative GOE. Her spins towards the end of the program were also not as beautiful as they were in her two regular GP events. Yu-Na's jumps, save her loop, were absolutely breathtaking, her spins were better, and she finally showed glimpses of really performing the program with heart. I wouldn't disagree with Mao getting 2 or 3 points higher in the PCS, but either way the GOE's made the difference in the end. She may have more difficulty in the jumps, but Yukari's 3A was steadier than hers and there is no contest between her 3F-3T and Yu-Na's or Carolina's.

Also disagree that Yu-Na wasn't faster than Caroline at 14 - Mao and Yu-Na had better speed than her at that age, and Mirai is already a very fast skater with good edges. I don't think that'll keep her from becoming one of the top forces in skating - while Sasha did improve significantly as the years went on, she was never exactly a fast, deep-edged skater either.

 

[*Sniper*]

Yeah, but is it fair? I guess to ulber Kimaniac, everything is fair as far as she scores higher...

It is disgusting.

That's the way ALL THE MANICS generally operate.
What's so disgusting about that?
That sounds about right to me.