Alysa Liu changes coaches and moves to Colorado Springs

[Ic3Rabbit]

You have to factor in the practice time, rehearsal time and travel time. It's not just a few days, it's way more than that. Alysa usually trains at least 6 hours a day, 6 days a week (if I remember correctly). Jeremy should not be gone even just for one day. I'm on Alysa dad side, fire Jeremy is the right thing. National is approaching and Alysa needs more intense training to fix her under rotations issues. Remember that, Alysa is super close in winning Silver at NHK. If Alysa just fully rotates one jump in NHK, she could win silver medal. Colorado is the best choice IMO.

Ok first of all, you have to know how these things work, and I do. Stars on ice for these shows show up one day before (it's a xmas show not a whole full blown tour). Most of the cast already knows the group numbers and they do individual programs they already have established. So he'd be gone 5 days before xmas when she wouldn't even be practicing anyway. Also, many coaches do this and it doesn't affect their students, by the time you're elite level you know how to handle a few days w/o your coach as many are away for GP assignments with your training mates while you are training for your turn at one. So no your argument doesn't stand on it's own two feet. I've done this many times, established pro and former elite. This isn't the full blown stars on ice tours of the spring that you are thinking of where they take 3-4 days to learn all the choreography and skater placement before a tour. They do one or two of these shows every december prior to covid and this season are doing 3-4 tour dates, nothing earth shaking for any competitor that would be a student of any of the pros in this christmas show version of SOI that coach/choreograph.

 

[macy]

i can't help but think this was mostly a knee jerk reaction to how she was scored at NHK. maybe we aren't getting the full scope here, but the quote from Arthur gives me some really weird helicopter parent vibes, like this wasn't a decision made jointly with Alysa. not to mention this was a really risky decision to make 6 weeks from nationals.

As i would hope Arthur knows at this point, if it had to do with NHK, judging is subjective and she may not have been scored the same had she skated the same elsewhere. i don't think it's fair to jump the gun because of the URs. coaching changes take a long time, at least a year and a half to two years, to really cement in a student and it hasn't even a year yet, not to mention Alysa could have just had an off day. will he do the same if she has the same result shortly after this change? what if she misses the team?

as far as i'm concerned unless there is abuse or something serious, a parent shouldn't be making decisions for their skater as far as their training intensity and methods, unless they are a former competitive skater themselves. unless Alysa went to him with her own concerns and the idea to move, leave the skating to the skater, the coaching to the coaches and other trainers- people who are experts and skilled in what they are doing. parents don't know best when it comes to this.

i really hope this was the right move and Alysa agrees with it.

 

[saturdaysun]

I'm old enough to remember when Alysa started training with Jeremy and Massimo in the first place and fans were all "That's terrible, training under an ice dancer? Her dad sucks, that's a dumb/terrible idea, why would they leave Laura, what Alysa *actually* needs is..." etc and now look. Perhaps we should give the people actually involved the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're doing, at the very least more than observers who get their info on internet message boards.

 

[Tavi...]

Got to give it a try. There is nothing to lose at this point. She doesn't get any medal at GP. Something needs to be changed. There is a risk, for sure. Nothing is worse than being 4th place at NHK (less than a few points from grabbing silver)

I wish Alysa the best and I hope the move works out for her. But I think you’re overlooking a couple of things. She will be going from training at sea level to training at 6000 ft. In Colorado Springs. Some people can make the transition seamlessly, and I hope she’s one. But some people struggle with the change and it can take awhile before they are able to train at full strength. Additionally, while I don’t know from personal experience, I’ve heard that the elite sessions at the World Arena are really crowded, which also can impact training. So although she may experience some benefits by training with other elite skaters, they may come at a cost. Finally, she will have to get used to new coaches and training methods. Even if she loves them, and e even assuming they’re not going to try making extensive changes in 6 weeks, it’s still going to be a factor. She seems to be an extremely positive young woman who’s a hard worker highly motivated to excel, and I wish her all the success in the world. But I wouldn’t say she has nothing to lose.

 

[Tony Wheeler]

The decision had nothing to do with Jeremy being away for a few days. Alysa's father wants results and was not pleased how this first half of the season has gone. He has lofty expectations between now and Nationals --> Olympics, so we will see how it plays out. (making me come out of retirement here to write this )

 

[alexocfp]

I'm old enough to remember when Alysa started training with Jeremy and Massimo in the first place and fans were all "That's terrible, training under an ice dancer? Her dad sucks, that's a dumb/terrible idea, why would they leave Laura, what Alysa *actually* needs is..." etc and now look. Perhaps we should give the people actually involved the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're doing, at the very least more than observers who get their info on internet message boards.

You can’t say right now if it’s a good or bad idea. Since we have no before/after comparisons.

At this moment, it’s just a coaching change. Time will vindicate this decision or not.

 

[alexocfp]

This gives me weird vibes. It makes it sound like the change was completely Arthur's decision and Alysa had no say, which I really hope is not the case. However, Alysa always seemed very happy with Massimo and Jeremy and satisfied with her performances so I can't imagine she would want a change, especially at this point in the season.

From what I've read, Arthur seems to be your typical stage parent who will do whatever it takes for his child to win. I just hope Alysa's okay with all of this and that she continues to improve with her new coaches.

Obviously, I’m in the “whatever it takes to win” school.

But there is a difference between a parent that steers their kid down the correct road and being a parent living vicariously through their kid.

And the above sentence is not meant to say her dad is doing the latter for the record.

The first coaching change did work out of we are honest.

It’s going to be fun to see how this story ends.

 

[saturdaysun]

You can’t say right now if it’s a good or bad idea. Since we have no before/after comparisons.

At this moment, it’s just a coaching change. Time will vindicate this decision or not.

I'm not the one say it's good or bad, that's everyone else in this thread.

 

[alexocfp]

I'm not the one say it's good or bad, that's everyone else in this thread.

But you did bring up a great point about her initial coaching change. It did work.

If anything, it adds intrigue to nationals.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Actually, considering she is the best US ladies now I think it´s pretty much to lose IMO. If she continues delivering the result she had this seasons she is a lock for Beijing, but what if this coaching change makes her skate bad at Nationals and she doesn´t place top 3? Should she still be send to OG when she didn´t deliver at Nationals because of a sudden coaching change? I think it´s a huge risk! No matter what coach she has now there is very small chances she will be on the podium in Beijing no matter what. The field is just too difficult. Better play it safe and know you have the spot. I would rather much see coaching change after OG.

This is pretty much how I feel. Yes, her UR problems have been costly but she is still the top American woman at the moment. She probably can't make substantial changes to her technique and maintain her consistency, which has been quite good overall this season. Specifically, the amount of prerotation she has on a lot of her jumps will make it hard to enter with more speed or gain more height. For example, there is slow motion footage of her 3S from the LP at Skate Canada where she pre-rotates the jump nearly a full turn before leaving the ice. She completed the jump and earned +GOE, and considering there is a lot that could go wrong changing the mechanics of that jump, I'm not sure what could be done in two or three months to make a real improvement.

 

[loopy1217]

I found it frustrating to fire someone based on one competition. Maybe if she has better jump quality in NHK that maybe she can medal. But what if she got the jumps but bomb on PCS? The result would be still the same.

I am sure Alysa can will herself to keep practicing but we also cannot forget this type of “training hard” result in injury like Bradie. You can’t foresee injury - the only thing Alysa has over Bradie is youth but still, look at Daria, Trusova and many others who are injured this season.

Sometimes, good things come to those who wait. And sadly Alysa’s dad had no patience

 

[alexocfp]

I found it frustrating to fire someone based on one competition. Maybe if she has better jump quality in NHK that maybe she can medal. But what if she got the jumps but bomb on PCS? The result would be still the same.

I am sure Alysa can will herself to keep practicing but we also cannot forget this type of “training hard” result in injury like Bradie. You can’t foresee injury - the only thing Alysa has over Bradie is youth but still, look at Daria, Trusova and many others who are injured this season.

Sometimes, good things come to those who wait. And sadly Alysa’s dad had no patience

But sometimes you need to make hay while the sun shines.

They don’t want to make an incremental jump, they want a major jump.

Who knows what the landscape looks like in 5 years during the next Olympics.

This could be her one and only shot. Taking a calculated risk isn’t that foolhardy.

Strategically it’s not a bad risk: they see that Bradie is hurt and nobody chasing her is making any real ground up. So they figure take a chance and potentially increase the distance between her and the chasing pack.

Obviously, if this experiment blows up and she doesn’t even win Nationals, then it will be a one way trip to second guess city.

Also, if you have high standards, sacking someone after one bad result isn’t that far fetched. It may not work out, sure but it happens in sports.

 

[Tolstoj]

I don't want to sound too negative, but i do feel this is a weird strategy at the dawn of the Olympics.

Alysa originally was a very efficient jumper, maybe not the best technique in the world (neither the russians have such amazing technique, they just land their elements), but the quads happened as well as the 3a.

They moved to Scali-Abbott to work on the components, allegedly a move pushed by the USFSA, she worked with Carolina Kostner and Lori Nichol too specifically on skating skills. It was a bold move, but it had a clear direction, they wanted her to become more artistic, and that takes time. It doesn't happen overnight, even though she improved a lot these months.

Now they move back to a more jump experienced coach because quoting Arthur Liu "Alysa needed more intensity in her training and the coaches and I were not on the same page as to how the training should be." which i interpret as: they want her to train more the programs, they're disappointed that she didn't medal in the GP series.

My immediate reaction would be "why change in the first place then?" things were working with Laura Lipetsky, she was competing with Kamila Valieva back then for the top spots in Juniors.

Then why change again, and most importantly why now in the midst of an olympic season where you really do not want to change, you want to keep and gain confidence.

I like Christy Krall, she did great with Patrick Chan years ago, but this change at this point of the season, looks like chaos to me.

 

[el henry]

Article with quotes from Alysa's new coaching team, who have spoken with Alysa about what she wants:

Figure skater Alysa Liu switches coaches ahead of Olympic qualifying event

Liu, the two-time U.S. champion, will head to Colorado to work with a new team before January's U.S. Championships.

olympics.com

 

[NanaPat]

I like Christy Krall, she did great with Patrick Chan years ago, but this change at this point of the season, looks like chaos to me.

Agree about Christy Krall; she had Patrick Chan doing quads (for the first time) in a very short period of time.

I'm not sure about the chaos part. If Alyssa can regain/stabliize/get one or two of the 3A or quad, it could mean a substantial bump in her scores and international standings. She may or may not be able to; but if that is their goal, I think Krall has a better chance than any other coach of pulling it off.

 

[skatingiscool]

Actually, considering she is the best US ladies now I think it´s pretty much to lose IMO. If she continues delivering the result she had this seasons she is a lock for Beijing, but what if this coaching change makes her skate bad at Nationals and she doesn´t place top 3? Should she still be send to OG when she didn´t deliver at Nationals because of a sudden coaching change? I think it´s a huge risk! No matter what coach she has now there is very small chances she will be on the podium in Beijing no matter what. The field is just too difficult. Better play it safe and know you have the spot. I would rather much see coaching change after OG.

Thanks goodness that Alysa is skating in USA, not Japan, Russia and even South Korea. If you read the USFSA selection criteria, Alysa doesn't need to be placed in top 3. She only needs to be in placed 5, not top 3. Given that ladies field is weak in America (just look at horrible GP results), top 5 at Nats should not be that hard for Alysa. If Alysa cannot beat at least one of Gracie, Amber, Mariah, injured Bradie and Karen at nationals, she should NOT go to Beijing. If you cannot be in top 5 at USA nationals, it means you cannot be in top 15 at Olympics.

p.s. Alysa is the ONLY American lady in group 2 as of this moment. All others (Amber, Mariah, Karen, Lindsay, Bradie) are in group 3 and below. Alysa only needs to be placed in top 5 , not top 3 at nationals.

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sit... Olympic Games Selection Procedures FINAL.pdf

	Group 1	Group 2	Group 3	Group 4
CRITERIA FOR 2022 US CHAMPIONSHIPS	Placed in the top 3 AND	Placed in the top 5 AND	Placed in the top 3 OR	Placed in the top 5 OR
CRITERIA FOR 2021 INTERNATIONAL SCORES *	Consistently scored equal to Top 3 at 2021 Worlds	Consistently scored equal to Top 5 at 2021 Worlds AND/OR scored once equal to Top 3 at 2021 Worlds	Consistently scored equal to Top 10 at 2021 Worlds AND/OR scored once equal to Top 5 at 2021 Worlds	Scored once equal to Top 10 at 2021 Worlds OR consistently scored equal to Top 15 at 2021 Worlds

 

[ptvvibezz]

The NBCSports article has been updated with a quote from Drew:

Meekins, world junior pairs’ champion in 2006, said in a text message he and Pfeifer would be in charge of Liu’s overall training.

“I will focus on training and performing the program and readying her for competition,” Meekins said. “Christy and Eddie (Shipstad, who works with skaters on the pole harness) will focus on stabilizing her jump technique through Dartfish and other analysis.

“In the next 40 days, the goal is to make adjustments to her training routine so that she can give an optimal performance at the US Championships, maximizing GOE on all of her elements, as well as performing clean jumps.

“At the same time, we will prepare for the Olympic Games, so if she is selected, she will have the necessary preparation she would need to deliver a performance in Beijing that is competitive with what the top women skaters in the world are doing.”

 

[R.D.]

I personally don't feel I have enough facts to definitively state whether this is the "right" or "wrong" choice for Alysa at this point in time.

No one does…only time will tell.

I would not worry, although I admit I find the timing on this to be interesting.

 

[ManyCairns]

I hope it is all onward and upward for Alysa. A risky change at this point in the season, but she and/or her team want to try something else, and I wish her well.

I actually can think of one example where a very last minute coaching switch was literally golden. Dorothy Hamill talked in her book about feeling left without the coaching she very much wanted/needed when Fassi went to Europeans with Curry, and how she scrambled to get a coach to give her the help she needed - between nationals and the Olympics. Wikipedia sums it up this way in their page on Hamill:

"Immediately after the national championships, her coach Carlo Fassi left the U.S. to accompany his other star pupil, John Curry, to the European Championships, leaving Hamill coachless with the Olympics only a few weeks away. She began training with Peter Burrows instead. She was pleased with their work together and wanted to bring him to the Olympics as her coach of record.[1] However, the USFSA refused her request, and she was reunited with Fassi for a brief period of training in Germany before the Olympics.[1][4]"

I'm not at all saying this isn't a risky change, but I think Alysa's still pretty much a lock for the Oly team, and the new coaches don't sound like they are going to overhaul things, maybe just bring a different technical focus.

 

[beepboop]

Actually, now that we know she moved to Colorado 2 days after NHK, it seems unlikely that the coaching change was prompted by her results there. Maybe it was prompted by her results at SCI, or maybe her development just wasn't happening at the pace that she/her father were hoping for.

I also wouldn't read too much into the language of Arthur's statement to Phil Hersh. It wouldn't surprise me if he was trying to protect Alysa's reputation and relationships with Massimo and Jeremy by framing the decision as entirely his.