Alysa Liu changes coaches and moves to Colorado Springs

[skatingiscool]

I don't want to sound too negative, but i do feel this is a weird strategy at the dawn of the Olympics.

Alysa originally was a very efficient jumper, maybe not the best technique in the world (neither the russians have such amazing technique, they just land their elements), but the quads happened as well as the 3a.

They moved to Scali-Abbott to work on the components, allegedly a move pushed by the USFSA, she worked with Carolina Kostner and Lori Nichol too specifically on skating skills. It was a bold move, but it had a clear direction, they wanted her to become more artistic, and that takes time. It doesn't happen overnight, even though she improved a lot these months.

Now they move back to a more jump experienced coach because quoting Arthur Liu "Alysa needed more intensity in her training and the coaches and I were not on the same page as to how the training should be." which i interpret as: they want her to train more the programs, they're disappointed that she didn't medal in the GP series.

My immediate reaction would be "why change in the first place then?" things were working with Laura Lipetsky, she was competing with Kamila Valieva back then for the top spots in Juniors.

Then why change again, and most importantly why now in the midst of an olympic season where you really do not want to change, you want to keep and gain confidence.

I like Christy Krall, she did great with Patrick Chan years ago, but this change at this point of the season, looks like chaos to me.

Technique taught by Lipetsky only work on tiny girl prior of puberty, not on "women" body. Alysa used to skate slow and she almost came to a halt before the jump. Alysa has much better skating skills, artistic, ice coverage, skating speed and jumping technique now. Alysa restores 3A which is a good sign. Now, she needs to work on fully rotating those 3A and other triples. If she can fully rotate all the jumps she have right now (even without quad), she can score over 220+ easily.

 

[beepboop]

Also, in an effort to be optimistic, I should note that Alysa has worked with Christy Krall and Eddie Shipstad before, so it's not as if they will have to develop their coaching relationship entirely from scratch:

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Yeah sorry, not buying the glazed over PR crap the above article is trying to sell.

 

[Skatingcat]

I hear the words about more high intensity training and I wish there was an emoticon for a red flag. I am nervous for her.

I want Alyssa to succeed, but right now she's a lock for the US olympic team, and will probably get a team medal. It seems awfully close to nationals to be doing this, and I worry the change will work against her. not for her.

 

[alexocfp]

I hear the words about more high intensity training and I wish there was an emoticon for a red flag. I am nervous for her.

It’s no different than someone in school taking advanced courses because the regular courses are too easy.

This might not work in the long run, but it’s a great sign that her and her team want to take the next step, which is thinking internationally.

We should welcome more non Russians trying to compete with Russia. She needs to consistently find 30-40 more points to get in the mix with the big girls.

Whatever the result of this experiment, good for them for seeing that what they have now is not enough, and not making excuses for that.

And willing to do more than just sit around and accept their fate. I like this attitude.

 

[skatingiscool]

Ok first of all, you have to know how these things work, and I do. Stars on ice for these shows show up one day before (it's a xmas show not a whole full blown tour). Most of the cast already knows the group numbers and they do individual programs they already have established. So he'd be gone 5 days before xmas when she wouldn't even be practicing anyway. Also, many coaches do this and it doesn't affect their students, by the time you're elite level you know how to handle a few days w/o your coach as many are away for GP assignments with your training mates while you are training for your turn at one. So no your argument doesn't stand on it's own two feet. I've done this many times, established pro and former elite. This isn't the full blown stars on ice tours of the spring that you are thinking of where they take 3-4 days to learn all the choreography and skater placement before a tour. They do one or two of these shows every december prior to covid and this season are doing 3-4 tour dates, nothing earth shaking for any competitor that would be a student of any of the pros in this christmas show version of SOI that coach/choreograph.

I respect your opinion, just want to let you know.

 

[icybear]

Whether her skating skills regress once moving to a more jump orientated coach doesnt really matter. She already got 69 pcs on her debut and practically had the same pcs as Alena in Skate Canada. Even if her SS goes back to being slow and 2 footed, wont dent her pcs because the judges have already deemed her as a high pcs skater.

 

[skatingiscool]

It’s no different than someone in school taking advanced courses because the regular courses are too easy.

This might not work in the long run, but it’s a great sign that her and her team want to take the next step, which is thinking internationally.

We should welcome more non Russians trying to compete with Russia. She needs to consistently find 30-40 more points to get in the mix with the big girls.

Whatever the result of this experiment, good for them for seeing that what they have now is not enough, and not making excuses for that.

And willing to do more than just sit around and accept their fate. I like this attitude.

100% agree. I love Alysa and her dad attitude - finding ways to improve. If you follow American skaters, most of them skate the same way for years with zero improvement. Scali and Jeremy help Alysa on skating skills tremendously. They help Alysa to achieve much higher PCS score now. However, it looks like Alysa has reached her score ceiling under Scali and Jeremy (219 score). Alysa is able to knock down at least one Japanese competitors at GP.... which is a positive sign. If Alysa needs to knock down more Japanese and at least one Russian competitors at Olympics, she needs a coach change and she needs to find a way to get score over 210 consistently. If you're afraid to take risk and make changes, it's a sign that you would never "success".

 

[katymay]

For those comparing this to Gracie Gold switching to Frank before USNats. Gracie had huge athletic ability and huge (rotated) jumps. What she needed from Frank was refinement and his political connections. She never needed help with jumps, because big jumps came natural to her.
Alysa is in peak form with two great programs. She is well trained, well conditioned, great stamina. She will win Nationals easily, because the U.S. women are very weak this year. But Daddy Liu, while your daughter has a great work ethic, and somehow, despite your influence, has managed to be a well adjusted, lovely, young lady, she does not have the natural athletic jumping ability of a Gracie Gold, Young You, Higuchi Wakaba, Veronika Zhillina or whatever Russian girls end up making it to the Olympics. You can hire every coach on the planet, and this will never change, that sort of leg strength is something you are born with, it isn't something you can aquire. (When she was 4'7" she could hide her lack of raw athletic ability with rotation speed, but now her jumps are smallish, and they will stay smallish.)
Maybe, Daddy Liu, you should celebrate the enormous progress she has made, celebrate how much she has achieved in this sport through enormous hard work, and understand that every athlete has limitations. What she should be doing now, is, chilling Tapering, the hard work is done. Running through the program, correcting small issues, BUT NOT a desperate, last minute, frantic attempt to become a top level jumper. Everything that Alysa could do to become a top level skater, she has done, within her skill set.

 

[Seven Sisters]

Yeah sorry, not buying the glazed over PR crap the above article is trying to sell.

I think we all would be more receptive to this narrative if this coaching change had happened last summer. What Drew Meekins is saying here sounds like more of a long term goal.

 

[skylark]

Alysa used to skate slow and she almost came to a halt before the jump. Alysa has much better skating skills, artistic, ice coverage, skating speed and jumping technique now. Alysa restores 3A which is a good sign. Now, she needs to work on fully rotating those 3A and other triples. If she can fully rotate all the jumps she have right now (even without quad), she can score over 220+ easily.

This is sensible. When you look at it this way, it's a "one step at a time" strategy.

I think this is Mr. Liu taking the heat for an action that Alysa wants. I remember a fleeting comment after Skate Canada that although she smiled as usual and was her usual positive self, she wasn't happy with how her competition went. Sometime in the next 2 weeks, before NHK, she and her dad worked out what to do. I say this not with certainty, but it seems likely, since she was in Colorado training with Meekins within 2 days after NHK. I just think that it's Alysa's personality to believe in possibility, rather than thinking "oh, well, this is the best I'm gonna do right now."

You can look at this step as foolish and unrealistic, or you can look at it as a leap of faith. I see it as the latter.

 

[Greengemmonster]

She can't keep doing the same thing over and over and getting dinged on GOE. Something had to change imo. Sure it's a drastic change but worth a try because she's struggling to podium with the miserable GOEs being dished out at her. Good for her I say. You only get one life, (especially in figure skating where your shelf life is not long) why not throw yourself fully into chasing your dreams.

 

[Skater Boy]

As per her dad:

Asked why change, Arthur Liu wrote: "Alysa greatly appreciates both Massimo and Jeremy and I also thank both of them for taking care of her. I felt Alysa needed more intensity in her training and the coaches and I were not on the same page as to how the training should be."

So, any credit or blame later on should go to dad. HahI

Skating parents - good or bad always add to drama. Still there must be a good reason - moving a teenager just 6 weeks or so before Nationals. I know money is not an issue here. If Arthur wants more intensity maybe he should beg and bribe Eteri? I guess we will have to wait to see how this all works out.

 

[alexocfp]

Skating parents - good or bad always add to drama. Still there must be a good reason - moving a teenager just 6 weeks or so before Nationals. I know money is not an issue here. If Arthur wants more intensity maybe he should beg and bribe Eteri? I guess we will have to wait to see how this all works out.

“Eteri leaves Sambo 70 for Liu” would be a forum shattering event. Haha

 

[skylark]

But Daddy Liu, while your daughter has a great work ethic, and somehow, despite your influence, has managed to be a well adjusted, lovely, young lady,

I think it may be because of the way he's raised Alysa and her siblings. Plus her natural qualities and talents.

 

[alexocfp]

For those comparing this to Gracie Gold switching to Frank before USNats. Gracie had huge athletic ability and huge (rotated) jumps. What she needed from Frank was refinement and his political connections. She never needed help with jumps, because big jumps came natural to her.
Alysa is in peak form with two great programs. She is well trained, well conditioned, great stamina. She will win Nationals easily, because the U.S. women are very weak this year. But Daddy Liu, while your daughter has a great work ethic, and somehow, despite your influence, has managed to be a well adjusted, lovely, young lady, she does not have the natural athletic jumping ability of a Gracie Gold, Young You, Higuchi Wakaba, Veronika Zhillina or whatever Russian girls end up making it to the Olympics. You can hire every coach on the planet, and this will never change, that sort of leg strength is something you are born with, it isn't something you can aquire. (When she was 4'7" she could hide her lack of raw athletic ability with rotation speed, but now her jumps are smallish, and they will stay smallish.)
Maybe, Daddy Liu, you should celebrate the enormous progress she has made, celebrate how much she has achieved in this sport through enormous hard work, and understand that every athlete has limitations. What she should be doing now, is, chilling Tapering, the hard work is done. Running through the program, correcting small issues, BUT NOT a desperate, last minute, frantic attempt to become a top level jumper. Everything that Alysa could do to become a top level skater, she has done, within her skill set.

Maybe everything you wrote above ends up being true.

But what’s wrong with trying to see if you can go further and failing, instead of doing nothing and having “what if” regrets later on?

Unrelated to the above, there is no evidence that dad is pushing her to do this against her will. I see a few posts castigating the guy.

If I had a daughter and by some miracle she was athletic (since she wouldn’t be getting the athletic gene from me haha) and she was a fighter that wanted to improve, I would provide the environment for her to do so.

 

[Lutzedge]

At least she's not with Tammy, whose skaters have bad UR problems. I think being in a high-level competitive environment with skaters she's friends with could be a good strategy. I'm hopeful Drew will continue to stress good PCS as well, since Vincent has really worked to improve in that area under his tutelage. I really hope that this doesn't mean we'll get different programs or complete technique reworking in the middle of the seas9n, and also means Alysa will continue skating after the Olympics. Ideally this will pay off in the long run, but it's very risky.

I think that the problem may be with the jumping coach for skaters coached by Tammy. It might not necessarily be Tammy.

 

[Lutzedge]

Technique taught by Lipetsky only work on tiny girl prior of puberty, not on "women" body. Alysa used to skate slow and she almost came to a halt before the jump. Alysa has much better skating skills, artistic, ice coverage, skating speed and jumping technique now. Alysa restores 3A which is a good sign. Now, she needs to work on fully rotating those 3A and other triples. If she can fully rotate all the jumps she have right now (even without quad), she can score over 220+ easily.

She has also changed her takeoff to one like Alena's on her 3A, which is much better than her old one. She has really developed good speed as well. What Alysa mainly needs now is rotation in her jumps, which she had better before going through puberty.

 

[alexocfp]

Nobody I don’t think had mentioned this yet, but here are her scores at and after her season best:

219.24
207.40
206.53
202.90

Now, I am not a math major but even I can see that the scores are going in one direction, and that direction isn’t up.

So, I don’t think it’s because of 1 event.

 

[katymay]

Maybe everything you wrote above ends up being true.

But what’s wrong with trying to see if you can go further and failing, instead of doing nothing and having “what if” regrets later on?

Unrelated to the above, there is no evidence that dad is pushing her to do this against her will. I see a few posts castigating the guy.

If I had a daughter and by some miracle she was athletic (since she wouldn’t be getting the athletic gene from me haha) and she was a fighter that wanted to improve, I would provide the environment for her to do so.

The problem is, as far as figure skating, Alysa isn't athletic. She is hard working and has a skill set. Courtney Hicks, Tonya Harding, Gracie Gold, Wakaba Higuchi, Alexandra Trusova, Polina, Agnes-ESPECIALLY AGNES Z!-etc etc were 'athletic'. Obviously, 'athletic' isn't enough, because many of this sports greatest 'athletes'/jumpers never succeeded on a high level. Alysa has limitations, and at this stage, Alysa is at the highest level she can obtain, thanks in no small way to her current coaching team. At this point in her training, she should be working only on the small changes she is actually CAPABLE of making. Continuing on the level she has attained through hard work.