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2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating
- Thread starter Minz
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Yes I think too its time to change her team, if she really willing go continue. They made quite some strategic errors with her: music choices, why 3a in the sp but not in the fs, 3a as second jump in her sp, low bv in fs or she has some stamina issues, bad marketing and politicking.
Her olymic hopes are minimal after this low score, no 3-3, only two footed 3a. Its hard but true.
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JGP in dance means little. Don't you remember how dominant Janovskaya/Mozgov were in juniors? And what happened next?
The same is true with men. Gogolev, Gumenik, Nguen - I don't have to count examples.
No matter how Russian fans would like to see Russia dominant in all disciplines the reality so far is not there. And in women USA, Korea, and Japan will try to catch up with Eteri. Not next Olympic cycle but maybe in 4-5 years.
Let's be honest Amber's Olympic chances were pretty much dead in the water after her bad showings in Finland and Japan, she's not a skater like Bradie of being fairly reliable reputation to make up for poor showings
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Unfortunately I agree. Unless she performed clean programs with 3-3s and clean 3As in both programs, it was going to be a hard sell. The time to get credit for incremental improvement has passed.
I'm also frustrated with her packaging. Somehow her costumes and music manage to come across as very samey season after season. The coaches should've vetoed the whiny music and the terrible cover. There's an emo vibe to it all that screams teenager.
Edit: I don't think it's the Cains' fault though. But if she is the highest performing member of her training camp that is probably detrimental to her progress.
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I completely agree with this comment. Amber needs new coaching ASAP. She has way too much talent to be ranked as low as she is. She had the ability to win this event and had she skated her best, she would have. I have to wonder if the 3A was a smart move for her. She didn't have a 3/3 at this event and that is a major element that she will need even if she misses the Olympic Team. If she wants to continue skating afterwards, She could certainly make the 4CC team if she does well at Nationals.
Congrats to Alysa! Some good money earned for future glory.Alysa finished first in the Challenger's Series, Gubanova GEO 2nd, Kurakova POL 3rd, Karen Chen 5th.
2021–22 ISU Challenger Series - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
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Money?? How much do they get?
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6000 euros I believe
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Wow. Good for her.
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Challenger Series prize money is in Swiss francs.
The amounts for single skaters:
1st place CHF 4’000.00
2nd place CHF 3’000.00
3rd place CHF 2’000.00
Lindsay's triple axels were downgraded << at JGP Slovenia, at Leesburg, and at Warsaw Cup.
Honest question: Has her 3A been "only" underrotated < elsewhere? At a U.S. club competition?
My memory could use refreshing.
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if amber is going to continue, she HAS to move coaches. her current team is doing nothing for her in terms of progress and as others have said, we see the same thing every season with programs and packaging and they have made some strategic errors with her. i'd love to see her possibly win another couple national medals and maybe even make a world team, but she's not going to do it under the cains.
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The biggest problem with Amber is her mind. She just isn’t a mentally strong competitor. I would not be comfortable sending her to international competitions. Her result at Golden spin showcased this point really well. She executed three triple double combos in her last competition and forgot an entire combination in her free skate. In the free skate, She landed two 3F 2T’s. Pretty easy to remember as those are TWO exact combos. This means that heading into the second half, she has to at some point land a three jump combo to maximize her points total. Usually, this is done as the 5th jump pass (1st in second half). So, she goes into the second half and landed a good 3Lo, well enough to add a combo, but didn’t. Then, her thought process is to go for another 3Lo, where she got a REP. Why wouldn’t she at least try to add the combo in the first Loop attempt? I’m going to give her the benefit of the doubt that she was going for her combo here and when she didn’t land the jump well, she obviously couldn’t add the combo here. But, then, for her last jump, she only lands a well landed 2A. No combo. At this point I was screaming at the TV, where is the combo? You forgot it Amber! and this can make a difference in the final standings. Then, I just thought, that is Amber, why am I more invested in her doing well than her and her team? Why give free points away? She should have done a 2A 2T 2T or a 2A eu 2S at least. That would have been good enough to give her the gold medal at Golden Spin and a win would be much better heading into Nationals. So, with that said, I don’t understand the thought process of her and her coaching team. Do they not talk about a plan A, plan B, and plan C?
For me, if Tennell is out of the picture, I would send 1) Liu (highest potential score), 2) Chen (4th at Worlds with high PCS score and a world standing that will put her in the final groups starting order), and 3) Bell (who can’t do triple triples, but, neither can Amber, so might as well send someone with high PCS scoring abilities). Those three are capable of placing in the top ten at the Olympics and these three can at least make it to the second final group.
Are the Americans sending their Olympic team to 4CC? If not, that is a gift for people like Amber, Lindsay and maybe Starr or someone else that does well at Nationals. They at least get to go to 4CC in a weakened field with a final chance to do well, there.
For me, if Tennell is out of the picture, I would send 1) Liu (highest potential score), 2) Chen (4th at Worlds with high PCS score and a world standing that will put her in the final groups starting order), and 3) Bell (who can’t do triple triples, but, neither can Amber, so might as well send someone with high PCS scoring abilities). Those three are capable of placing in the top ten at the Olympics and these three can at least make it to the second final group.
Are the Americans sending their Olympic team to 4CC? If not, that is a gift for people like Amber, Lindsay and maybe Starr or someone else that does well at Nationals. They at least get to go to 4CC in a weakened field with a final chance to do well, there.
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- Jul 31, 2019
This is a great point. Do skaters train for contingencies and talk through with coaches "ok if you miss this jump then you'll do that jump there, etc"?
Does it interfere with where you are supposed to be with the music if you deviate from your plan and throws everything off? I've wondered.
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It was frustrating to see Amber not be able to get in one more double jump to take the win, and the coaching team should really have her doing the combos earlier in the program so she gets two shots to try them if things don't go well on the first attempt. Having said that, I don't think any of the American women are particularly good at making on-the-fly changes to earn extra points. But being able to be flexible is a lot more important for skaters like Amber, who tend to pop or miss combos with bad landings on the first jump, than skaters like Karen, who generally complete the attempts but sometimes fall or get < calls, mistakes that don't provide opportunities for making up points.
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a 2A+2T+2T wouldn't have been allowed since that would have been too many double toes. However, you're absolutely right that Amber should have went for a 2A+Eu+2S (or triple sal if she felt up to it) though it would have been even better for her to go for a 3Lo+Eu+2S (or 3S) to avoid the REP. Here are my two cents on what happened:
Amber usually attempts to open with a 3F+3T, but she didn't pull it off, she only got a double toe. So, she instead decided to go for the 3T again on the second 3F, still didn't happen again (the second triple flip is probably usually the backup plan for if the opening triple-triple doesn't go well). Oh crap, but her 3 jump combo is usually a 3Lz+2T+2Lo, but she already did two double toes already, so she can't do that anymore on her triple lutz since she already did two triple toes. The triple lutz is also the jump right after the second triple flip, so she didn't have a ton of time to think through what to do. After that, she usually does a 3Lo+2T in the second half, but she can't do that anymore because of the second 2T on the 3F. Amber's not a good competitor anyway, so I'm not surprised that she wasn't doing all this jump math.
I'm curious why Amber never does a 3S in her free program. It would add quite a lot to her base value to replace a 2A with a 3S. She hasn't done a solo triple salchow since 2019, and even then she rarely did it. Just odd. It would give her a lot more flexibility in her three jump combo if she went for a 2A+Eu+3S (not convinced she can do a triple eu triple sal) since then there's less concern about jumping too many double toes.
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I agree that most US ladies aren't very good at making changes on the fly. In Mariah's terrible free skate at Nationals last year, she did a really good triple lutz on her last jump of the program. If she was a better competitor, she would've added a double toe to that in an attempt to get more points.
Even Alysa, I feel, usually goes for her jumps even if she feels like it's not quite right. I'm thinking about her free skate at Nationals last year, when she did a 2F+eu+3S<<. She could probably feel that it wasn't quite right after the 2F, and she could've made the split second decision to abort the eu+3S and tack it on to her last triple flip instead, but she still went for it anyway. A lot of her combos this season too, most notably the 3Lz+eu+3F combos. None of them have looked particularly good, most of them have been quite muscled, but I get the impression that Alysa will always go for the jumps she has planned, even if she isn't feeling particularly confident on the jump in the moment.
I see. So, you are only allowed two 2T’s….. I have been a fan of figure skating for 5 years and I’m still learning the rules
. Thanks for the explanation. Ok, Amber and her coaches should know the rules. Then, she should have landed a 2A eu 2S (I’m assuming she can’t land a 3S at then end of this combo). Maybe, she should practice this as plan B? If she doesn’t land a 3T in first half, that should be plan B or an alternative plan C, a 3Lo 2Lo 2Lo combo…. Or a 2A 2Lo 2Lo combo. How cool would that be? Not hard to remember either of these two plans moving forward.
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