2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[lurkerghost1]

Wakuwaku is just fighting semantics with anyone because they’re bored I think. A million different arguments to discuss different interpretations of definitions, like that makes a difference. I said exactly what they did— the full blade doesn’t matter because Anna doesn’t use it to actually jump netted a response of NO YOURE WRONG the full blade doesn’t matter because it’s not a full blade if she doesn’t use it to jump and then me stating that the blade assist has nothing to do with Anna’s prerotation because the lift-off point from ice is the same leading to NO YOURE WRONG the technique doesn’t have anything to do with preroration. Just sort of an exhausting set of posts to make points that everyone they’re arguing with don’t seem to really disagree with.

Anyways, I’m just waiting for the SP

I want Anna to do well because I want to see an INSANE 4 peat, I want Sasha to do well because the Olympics without her would just feel so wrong, and Maia to do well because she’s the Dark Horse and I just love the SP.

Regardless, I hope for as good a nationals as last year.

If Anna repeats as champion 4 years in a row it will be more impressive than winning the Olympics, considering every rusnats since 2018-19 has had a tougher field than 2018 or 2022 Olympics.

 

[Amei]

Obviously. But she is thinking about how to make her situation better, not worrying about everyone else.

People may not like what she said, may disagree vehemently, but her looking out for number one isn’t all that controversial.

Especially in individual sports. People get good at the dark arts as I like to call them.

The spinners want spins to be worth more, the jumpers want jumps to be worth more. Everyone is looking to gain an advantage, on or off ice.

Yes, but there are things you say in private or keep to yourself and things you say for the public to hear, this was not something to say for the public to hear. This wasn't even something said to a coach or something that got leaked to the press, she said it to the press. IMO there should be some media training classes for these athletes once they transition out of the novice level where the press or public might be asking them questions or paying attention to their social media accounts.

 

[alexocfp]

Yes, but there are things you say in private or keep to yourself and things you say for the public to hear, this was not something to say for the public to hear. This wasn't even something said to a coach or something that got leaked to the press, she said it to the press. IMO there should be some media training classes for these athletes once they transition out of the novice level where the press or public might be asking them questions or paying attention to their social media accounts.

I actually have the opposite view. Why?

I rather the athletes be honest and say things that get them in trouble rather than the sanitized, I love everyone, trite and boring answers we get to these questions, and 99% of questions usually.

 

[Jontor]

Start order short:

1. Valieva
2. Shulskaya
3. Petrosian
4. Yametova
5. Samodelkina
6. Trusova
------------------
7. Gushchina
8. Sviridenko
9. Muravieva
10. Shcherbakova
11. Tuktamysheva
12. Samodurova
------------------
13. Zinina
14. Morozova
15. Khromykh
16. Sinitsyna
17. Onishchenko
18. Peterimova

 

[Scott512]

Yes, but there are things you say in private or keep to yourself and things you say for the public to hear, this was not something to say for the public to hear. This wasn't even something said to a coach or something that got leaked to the press, she said it to the press. IMO there should be some media training classes for these athletes once they transition out of the novice level where the press or public might be asking them questions or paying attention to their social media accounts.

Well i doubt anyone is surprised that eteri in her interview again placed the blame for students eating habits, injury and not lasting past 18 either on said skater or there familys , really sorry to say but seperating an underaged child from her mother and saying it was an agreement and the basically saying and look what happened after her mother moved to the same city is such a red flag in my Opinion. Saying that the injury from another student came because she let go of her weight controll? When we knwo that that isnt even true, since said student was as thin as always and openly admitted that she was weighwise at her lowest in said season? Where in this is she actually acting like a responsible adult trainer? Where did she help these students ? Instead she talks about another student and taking away food from her? Like its completely ok?. . Yes the situation with sasha and the dog was funny and cute but really she shoud know better than again talk in that way about past students . You can like eteri all you want but she just keeps putting the blame on the skaters instead of also as their trainer taking a huge part of this blame , she is responsible for the children in her care, exspecially if he parents arent even living in the same city as their child and have to place their complete trust into her . th fact that she even dared to talk like this about alinas mother? I was shocked because literally Alina has never said a bad word about her and eteri does this? She might just make alina angry with that. Because if i was alina and my extrainer said this about the fact that my mother is at fault for my career ending far too soon? Instead of looking at the fact that the trainers method is not made for girls past the age of 18 up to thenpresent at least. (Mabye it will change with anna or sasha but at this point she doesnt have a female skater that is older then 18) . I would be more than angry .how can she talk about it like everything she just said is totally normal and great?

What interview?

I can't believe she would do an interview a couple months before the Olympics that would inflame any situation.

What did she say about her only Olympic Champions mother?

 

[Scott512]

Yes, but there are things you say in private or keep to yourself and things you say for the public to hear, this was not something to say for the public to hear. This wasn't even something said to a coach or something that got leaked to the press, she said it to the press. IMO there should be some media training classes for these athletes once they transition out of the novice level where the press or public might be asking them questions or paying attention to their social media accounts.

Yes she told this to the media the MSM of Russian Sports!

But SS in reality does not know any better because nobody told her which is where the media training comes in that we've been talking about for years but it's like a cat chasing its tail. Nothing ever happens with media training one-on-one and they need it and so do some of the coaches. Yes they are great at what they do skaters and coaches but it doesn't mean they know how to say the right thing at the right time.

On a side note I never thought I would hear 14 year old outstanding Junior skater wanting the age limit raised.

 

[sclloyd]

Yes she told this to the media the MSM of Russian Sports!

But SS in reality does not know any better because nobody told her which is where the media training comes in that we've been talking about for years but it's like a cat chasing its tail. Nothing ever happens with media training one-on-one and they need it and so do some of the coaches. Yes they are great at what they do skaters and coaches but it doesn't mean they know how to say the right thing at the right time.

On a side note I never thought I would hear 14 year old outstanding Junior skater wanting the age limit raised.

I think for her it would be strategic.. one more year for Olympics and an age limit would age out her younger competitors and give her time to solidify her current quad set in actual programs. She could threaten any of the top group if she managed to land the full quad set she has in her programs so she might think she could make two Olympic teams if there was just one more year before them, and no Zhilina or Akatieva in ‘26.

 

[Scott512]

I think for her it would be strategic.. one more year for Olympics and an age limit would age out her younger competitors and give her time to solidify her current quad set in actual programs. She could threaten any of the top group if she managed to land the full quad set she has in her programs so she might think she could make two Olympic teams if there was just one more year before them, and no Zhilina or Akatieva in ‘26.

All true. She is dreaming to be in 2 Olympics.

But I was a little uncomfortable with SS allegedly saying that she was praying for the Winter Olympics to delayed one year. But I guess she doesn't know any better do not to say that.

 

[Draculus]

Win or lose that mentality is an issue.

Sorry, it's a core of the sport. 'Let's be friends and agree that everybody won so nobody gets hurt' - it's probably ok in kindergarten but even in elementary school it's kind of not ok.

 

[rollerblade]

According to translation 14 year old SS said she was praying for the Winter Olympics to be cancelled one year and also for the age limit to be increased. Whaaaaaaaaaaat? Such comments were getting criticized in the comment section.

She doesn't mind if the Olympics get postponed a year because it would make her age-eligible for 2023.... but then she also wish for age limit increase, which would make her age-ineligible again. So... back to square one?

 

[fabienne1996]

She doesn't mind if the Olympics get postponed a year because it would make her age-eligible for 2023.... but then she also wish for age limit increase, which would make her age-ineligible again. So... back to square one?

If the age lets say would be raised to 18 then she would be eligible for 2026 if i have her age right she would be 18 or 19 by 2026 same as akatieva who eould be close to 19without having to worry about newly turned seniors

 

[Scott512]

She doesn't mind if the Olympics get postponed a year because it would make her age-eligible for 2023.... but then she also wish for age limit increase, which would make her age-ineligible again. So... back to square one?

You can't have it both ways but Sofia wants to!

I think she is thinking if the Olympics get postponed a year she can make the Olympics in 2023 and then for 2026 she will be about 19 years old and the increased age limit will keep 14 or 15 year old phenoms from keeping her off the team. Her thinking and strategy is a little awkward but kind of ingenious at the same time.

I just wish she had never gone public with saying she prays for the Olympics to be postponed a year. I hope that was an inaccurate translation.

But I can't wait to see SS skate at nationals.

 

[alexocfp]

And I got to say this since I’m most likely guilty of it too: sometimes opinions are formed based an faulty, or wrong “facts.”

A lot of times, those facts are wrong.

 

[Amei]

She doesn't mind if the Olympics get postponed a year because it would make her age-eligible for 2023.... but then she also wish for age limit increase, which would make her age-ineligible again. So... back to square one?

Well if you think through it -- if the Olympics got postponed to 2023 its unlikely the ISU makes any large changes in the offseason so she would be age-eligible, 2023 happens then in that offseason they increase the age limit but it no longer applies to her.

 

[wakuwaku]

Hanyu and Aymoz have less than 0 degrees prerotation on flip and lutz. Muravyeva has 0 degrees prerotation on loop. Yeonjeong park has 0 degrees prerotation on toeloop. It’s possible.

I see. It still proves nothing - no, it actually makes my position even stronger. Until then you could make an argument about second/third jumps in combinations (which every skater is doing prerotated - even those you are mentioned) being prerotated as inevitable part of their technique - and therefore making excuse for ISU not wanting to punish it - setting only Lz/F jumps in special category. Not so much now. If we talking about "stealing" of rotations - it should apply to each and every jump. If second jumps in combinations are physically impossible to jump with "0 degree prerotation" - than ISU shouldn't make combinations legal at all. Because it would mean each and every combination would consist of jumps with "stolen rotation" - i.e. with eternal negative GOE. And if such elements are deemed as valid and clean by ISU intention - than the same standart should be applied to all jumps - whether they are in combinations or not.

“URs lead to bad landing/falls therefore they deserve penalties because they ruin the beauty of the performance” the opposite is true, URs are called when the skater gives a beautiful performance so that judges can justify putting the favorites ahead despite inferior overall performance quality by saying “oh in slow motion review UR is visible”

Actually I am against that judging practice. As I said before - and demonstrated with examples - usually TP takes on review only 2-3 elements which looking suspicious in real time. In that case reviewing visually clean jumps and finding there URs even if skater did splendid performance - makes it somehow unfair and ruins it for spectators as well.

And UR is not a way to steal turn it’s just a way to absorb torque force.

Yuma Kagiyama (who completes rotating his jumps in air or landing exactly backwards) would disagree with you about need of torque absorbtion.

Yes, rotating a triple or quad is easier for skaters who complete the rotation on the ice after landing. UR is efficient so UR is now good technique.

UR is bad because its the most often reason for step outs and falls. When you landing facing forward - it's always struggle to not fall and it's putting great strain on your foot. Probably it's not that obvious for doubles and triples though - especially if you are used to land them like that (Satoko etc.) - but even then it makes jumps looking tiny which affects their GOE.

Pro classic crowd are against two skaters getting credit for the same thing when one does it harder yes. Nathan or Boyang or Zhilina 4Lz technique is also totally optimized compared to to the original 3Lz jump in terms of precision and timing and yet is still much harder than Anna 4Lz or Grassl 4Lz technique.

Somehow I doubt you are qualified enough to assess difficulty of classic 4Lz vs prerotated 4Lz. It can be compared only by skater who jumped 4Lz with both techniques. I suspect strongly that both types of jumps are insanely difficult. Maybe classic one is a bit harder - ok, it's classic skaters loss then. But more likely difficulty depends on how they were taught and used to it. I believe if Boyang decided to learn prerotated 4Lz now - it would be even more difficult for him to do than landing his classic 4Lz.

You talk about justifying this prerotation technique as “opening up these jumps to more skaters” yet it relies on high rotation speed and being ultra-thin, how is this any better than skaters who rely on being ultra-short for their technique (Ito, Harding). How many girls with prerotation technique totally lose their jumps when they grow and gain weight, the same as any other technique.

For example Loena Hendrixx is jumping prerotated lutzes/flips. She is adult skater with adult body - she is not very light, short or thin. She didn't lose her jumps - on the contrary she never was so good with them as in this season. Therefore this technique is working not only for small teens - and not the reason for losing jumps.

The ones who jump prerotated 4Lz/4F: Samarin, Aliev, Uno, Grassl, Sato, Zhou, Manilin, Trusova, Shcherbakova, Petrosyan, Samodelkina
The ones who don’t: Chen, Hanyu, Kolyada, Ignatov (?), Boyang, Zhilina

I don’t think these numbers support your claim

No, they support it. How many skaters are in the whole world? Probably thousands. Only 11 skaters with prerotated 4Lz/4F is negligible number. It's still very hard jump.

P.S.: sorry for continuing this topic, guys. I see people are tired of it. As I am. I won't continue it for now.

 

[alexocfp]

I see. It still proves nothing - no, it actually makes my position even stronger. Until then you could make an argument about second/third jumps in combinations (which every skater is doing prerotated - even those you are mentioned) being prerotated as inevitable part of their technique - and therefore making excuse for ISU not wanting to punish it - setting only Lz/F jumps in special category. Not so much now. If we talking about "stealing" of rotations - it should apply to each and every jump. If second jumps in combinations are physically impossible to jump with "0 degree prerotation" - than ISU shouldn't make combinations legal at all. Because it would mean each and every combination would consist of jumps with "stolen rotation" - i.e. with eternal negative GOE. And if such elements are deemed as valid and clean by ISU intention - than the same standart should be applied to all jumps - whether they are in combinations or not.

Actually I am against that judging practice. As I said before - and demonstrated with examples - usually TP takes on review only 2-3 elements which looking suspicious in real time. In that case reviewing visually clean jumps and finding there URs even if skater did splendid performance - makes it somehow unfair and ruins it for spectators as well.

Yuma Kagiyama (who completes rotating his jumps in air or landing exactly backwards) would disagree with you about need of torque absorbtion.

UR is bad because its the most often reason for step outs and falls. When you landing facing forward - it's always struggle to not fall and it's putting great strain on your foot. Probably it's not that obvious for doubles and triples though - especially if you are used to land them like that (Satoko etc.) - but even then it makes jumps looking tiny which affects their GOE.

Somehow I doubt you are qualified enough to assess difficulty of classic 4Lz vs prerotated 4Lz. It can be compared only by skater who jumped 4Lz with both techniques. I suspect strongly that both types of jumps are insanely difficult. Maybe classic one is a bit harder - ok, it's classic skaters loss then. But more likely difficulty depends on how they were taught and used to it. I believe if Boyang decided to learn prerotated 4Lz now - it would be even more difficult for him to do than landing his classic 4Lz.

For example Loena Hendrixx is jumping prerotated lutzes/flips. She is adult skater with adult body - she is not very light, short or thin. She didn't lose her jumps - on the contrary she never was so good with them as in this season. Therefore this technique is working not only for small teens - and not the reason for losing jumps.

No, they support it. How many skaters are in the whole world? Probably thousands. Only 11 skaters with prerotated 4Lz/4F is negligible number. It's still very hard jump.

P.S.: sorry for continuing this topic, guys. I see people are tired of it. As I am. I won't continue it for now.

Once the practices start, we will all forget about this for a few weeks. Haha

 

[alexocfp]

You can't have it both ways but Sofia wants to!

I think she is thinking if the Olympics get postponed a year she can make the Olympics in 2023 and then for 2026 she will be about 19 years old and the increased age limit will keep 14 or 15 year old phenoms from keeping her off the team. Her thinking and strategy is a little awkward but kind of ingenious at the same time.

I just wish she had never gone public with saying she prays for the Olympics to be postponed a year. I hope that was an inaccurate translation.

But I can't wait to see SS skate at nationals.

She might as well go all the way and suggest skating events only allow ladies named Sofia to enter. With a t, not ph. Haha

 

[Amei]

Btw they say Eteri skaters missed their first practice - despite them being in St. Peterburg already. The practice was just before the draw ceremony in which all skaters participated. It's little strange.

While I don't know about Nationals, I feel they frequently miss first practices at competitions. I believe the 2019 GPF they weren't even there for the draw and it was only Rika and Bradie.

 

[GS Forum Staff]

Hello Posters in the Russian Women’s Thread!

Discussions about the interview with Eteri Tutberidze may be continued here:

Eteri Tutberidze interview on Russian TV

So, the most complete translation of the first part of the interview. Sorry for inadvertently repeating what has already been posted elsewhere. In any case, this text is more complete. introductory part: She created her own universe in the world of sports, changed figure skating. Mysterious...

www.goldenskate.com

Any posts regarding the interview may be moved to this thread.
Thank you.

 

[Arbitrary]

Yesterday RusNats had lost its appeal.

Hanyu's landed 4Ax in practice. Everyone is back to JapNats.