Impressions from TV | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Impressions from TV

feraina said:
Yu-na's jumps are great, especially 3F and 3Lz. She gets so much height on them. But I can't get into her LP program this year at all. Aside from being amazed by her good jumps, the rest of it doesn't grab me much at all. The music is not especially easy to listen to (in terms of harmonic structure), nor especially exciting (building like Lambiel's), and her poor posture really detracts from the performance aspect. Why can't she just keep her back up, point her toes, turn out her knees? I feel like she goes from pose to pose a little bit, and that worked well last year for the Tango of Roxanne SP, because the music hit periodic highs and went well with this kind of skating. The other quality Yu-na has naturally is a sense of lyricaity that plays to the tenderness of the audience, and that was demonstrated splendidly in her Lark Ascending LP last season. But Miss Saigon neither had these syncopated strong beats, nor the lyrical soft parts that touch the audience's heart; in short, it didn't take advantage of Yu-na's strengths, and instead emphasized her weaknesses (bad posture, rough transitions -- all these are in relative terms of course, not compared to the average skater, or even the average elite skater, but the best skaters, and the strengths she has in other areas). I really feel like Mao Asada ought to have received higher PCS's, at least what she got at the last WC, probably a little higher, since the choreography (skating went better with the music) and performance (her posture/positions have improved) were better in this case, while Yu-na's PCS should not be quite as high as they were. Mao made some grievous errors in the SP, so I won't argue that she definitely should've won the GPF. But at least in the LP, she should've won by a more significant margin, by at least 4 or 5 points. But... again, I've never really understood the PCS system -- I really wish the CoP would break down the PCS like they do the TES, so the skaters as well as the audience can understand why they get the scores that they do!
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Your impressions jive with mine. :biggrin:

I actually think the 'Miss Saigon" music cuts in Yu-Na's LP are good. Starts off with the explosive loud part, moves on to the slower and more tender second half, etc. I actually think the middle part makes Yu-Na's LP. 'Sun and Moon' sounds so beautiful in solo piano, and Yu-Na hits the spiral on the perfect beat when it begins. She really exhibits such tender expression (especially with that move she does where she clasps her hands and raises them to her face), and I really think the slow section is the best part of her program.
 
chuckm said:
Lambiel beat Takahashi because Stephane didn't get a deduction for the fall on the quad. Sorry, but when a skater has the full weight of his body on his two hands (not his feet), that is a FALL. I have seen other skaters get charged with a fall for less.
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To me, that fall of Stephane's looked pretty much like Sasha Cohen's 2nd fall in the Oly's LP.

Sasha:
http://gallery.ru/watch?ph=dzM-ytBV

Stephane:
http://gallery.ru/watch?ph=dzM-ytBW

Interesting, but Sasha didn't receive a full -3 GOE for the fall either. Her total GOE for that jump was a -2.86. Stephane's -2.80. Not that huge of a difference. I guess, judges are not that unanimous in the falls definition after all.
 
I thought Sasha should have received a deduction for the second fall in the Olympic FS, just as Stephane should have for HIS fall on the quad in the GPF.

I notice that you didn't comment on Stephane's 15-second rest period.
 
chuckm said:
I thought Sasha should have received a deduction for the second fall in the Olympic FS, just as Stephane should have for HIS fall on the quad in the GPF.

I notice that you didn't comment on Stephane's 15-second rest period.
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As you all know, I am big time Lambiel fan and he did not skate as he did last season's best. Had Daisuke won (I also like his performances) I would not have objected. To me the two of them were that close and both were faulty. Nitpicking both is not difficult. A good case for subjectivity.

Joe
 
californiea said:
I wonder why ESPN does not touch upon the scoring aspects(as I find in Japanese/Korean broadcasts, for example), breakdown of points, GOEs, comparison of these aspects between the skaters, etc.
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:laugh: I don't think sporting broadcasts' goals are (or should be) to leave the audience on a baffled cliffhanger. But anyway, I think ESPN did try a little harder in the past to explain the scoring, though never too hard, which may be part of the reason in the decline of TV viewership. This year, having lost its broadcasting right to skating events, I think ESPN has less incentive than ever to invest in a thorough, well thought-out explanation of how CoP works.
 
californiea said:
I wonder why ESPN does not touch upon the scoring aspects(as I find in Japanese/Korean broadcasts, for example), breakdown of points, GOEs, comparison of these aspects between the skaters, etc.
Click to expand...

:laugh: I don't think sporting broadcasts' goals are (or should be) to leave the audience on a baffled cliffhanger. But anyway, I think ESPN did try a little harder in the past to explain the scoring, though never too hard, which may be part of the reason in the decline of TV viewership. This year, having lost its broadcasting right to skating events, I think ESPN has less incentive than ever to invest in a thorough, well thought-out explanation of how CoP works.

Even for the camera shots on the 3Ltz, they mainly chose angles that are perpendicular to the direction of motion, and therefore least informative in terms of take-off edges. For anyone who doesn't skate or frequent skating forums, it must be awfully confusing when the commentators talk about switching to the "inside" edge the last moment before a (f)lutz take-off.
 
Hsuhs said:
To me, that fall of Stephane's looked pretty much like Sasha Cohen's 2nd fall in the Oly's LP.

Sasha:
http://gallery.ru/watch?ph=dzM-ytBV

Stephane:
http://gallery.ru/watch?ph=dzM-ytBW

Interesting, but Sasha didn't receive a full -3 GOE for the fall either. Her total GOE for that jump was a -2.86. Stephane's -2.80. Not that huge of a difference. I guess, judges are not that unanimous in the falls definition after all.
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I didn't count the seconds as you did for Lambiels pausing, but I did mention how surprised I was by it earlier in the thread.

About the fall or touch down - I thought it was close, but would have called it a fall, yet could see 'the other side.'

In the end, I thought Takahashi won in a squeaker, was surprised that he didn't, but wasn't feeling 'wuzrobbed' either.

I'm a huge fan of both and just enjoyed watching - I didn't feel Takahashi was overmarked in the short as some apparently did, nor did I think Lambiel was under or overmarked in the short - seemed fine to me.

Again, the long, I think could have been called differently, but I don't feel it was simply WRONG or a huge GIFT either. The pausing was huge (and I dislike it) - but so too is/was Lambiel's basic skating skills, his intepretation while moving is just lovely, imo, his ability to generate speed with seemingly no effort, and to change speed equally easily, and so on, I think merit the high PCS scores. Again, I think Taka is fabulous too and has many of the same great qualities - however, he did just look more like he was fighting/concentrating and even a bit winded in the tv view - TO ME. I just think it was deservedly close, and imo, should have gone to Takahashi, but I still don't feel it was egregious and can understand why it was close.
 
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Andalusia said:
And ditto on Yu-Na's ugly free leg position in her layback. Michelle used to do it, too, before she eventually changed it to a dropped leg layback which was much more aesthetically pleasing. Her layback was the only distracting thing about her celebrated 1998 Rach SP. Doesn't look like Yu-Na's about to change her's, though, which is a shame.
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I adore Yu-Na, and could watch her skate all day long - but, for me, her distracting leg position extends fully from hip to toe on everything she does (except the jumps) - Michelle's turn out in the layback was decidedly non-existant, but she had great extention on her spiral, nice knee action while stroking and even if not with pointed toes (like, say, Sasha) I never found Michelle's legs distracting except for the layback (until she changed it). When I watch Yu-Na skate, I often have to STOP focusing on her knees, lack of turn out and lack of toe point -- as I said earlier, I think it is because she is so stunning at everything else, this just seems glaringly off to me.
 
Hsuhs said:
Interesting, but Sasha didn't receive a full -3 GOE for the fall either. Her total GOE for that jump was a -2.86. Stephane's -2.80. Not that huge of a difference. I guess, judges are not that unanimous in the falls definition after all.
Click to expand...

A -3 GOE is only mandatory in the SP for a fall. In the LP, the judge can take into consideration the entire rest of the jump besides the landing -- preparation, takeoff, air position -- and reduce from there. So if the jump deserved a +1 for those aspects, and then the skater fell, the judge can give a -2, having started at a +1 and taken -3 off from there if they considered it to be a fall.
 
I didn't count the seconds as you did for Lambiels pausing, but I did mention how surprised I was by it earlier in the thread.
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I didn't either. Don't quote me on that, thanx.

A -3 GOE is only mandatory in the SP for a fall. In the LP, the judge can take into consideration the entire rest of the jump besides the landing -- preparation, takeoff, air position -- and reduce from there.
Click to expand...
That explains it then. Do you happen to have a link to the rules reg falls in LP?
 
emma said:
I adore Yu-Na, and could watch her skate all day long - but, for me, her distracting leg position extends fully from hip to toe on everything she does (except the jumps) - Michelle's turn out in the layback was decidedly non-existant, but she had great extention on her spiral, nice knee action while stroking and even if not with pointed toes (like, say, Sasha) I never found Michelle's legs distracting except for the layback (until she changed it). When I watch Yu-Na skate, I often have to STOP focusing on her knees, lack of turn out and lack of toe point -- as I said earlier, I think it is because she is so stunning at everything else, this just seems glaringly off to me.
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Totally agree on all of this.

Yu-Na's lack of graceful leg action (I love that expression! :agree:) gives a quality of laziness or sloppiness to her performances, and I agree it's jarring because she excells in most other areas.
 
emma said:
I adore Yu-Na, and could watch her skate all day long - but, for me, her distracting leg position extends fully from hip to toe on everything she does (except the jumps) - Michelle's turn out in the layback was decidedly non-existant, but she had great extention on her spiral, nice knee action while stroking and even if not with pointed toes (like, say, Sasha) I never found Michelle's legs distracting except for the layback (until she changed it). When I watch Yu-Na skate, I often have to STOP focusing on her knees, lack of turn out and lack of toe point -- as I said earlier, I think it is because she is so stunning at everything else, this just seems glaringly off to me.
Click to expand...

I agree. Although these do not bother me that much in her free skate with contemporary sound-track music, these features are ill-fitted for classical waltz music in SP. But it seems that Yuna has barely received forrmal dance training until recently. Now that she started working with a ballet teacher, these may be addressed in a few years.
 
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