2022 Russian Nationals: Ice Dance Thoughts?

[flanker]

Are people allowed to express their dissatisfaction with the results in wording you find more suitable or are we at all not allowed to question whether D/S were truly among the top three teams who finished the competition?

Where exactly did I say otherwise? Though as much as that people are I think also allowed to express their disagreement to that opinion. I just thought that rational agreement to not spoil a discussion could be a better idea than word ping-pong. But if you see the quality of discussion in lines like "I wish I could be that delusional" (means like me), OK, I suppose it's your right. Merry christmas

 

[lurkerghost1]

Just a year ago even I thought the Russian teams for next quad would be Shevchenko/Eremenko, Khudaiberdieva/Bazin, and Kaganovskaia/Angelopol. How wrong I was!

 

[chuckm]

I saw this result (D/S) coming after Warsaw, but was told it would never happen. IMO it was in the works since the US Classic, where D/S placed 2nd behind Hubbell / Donohue.

Wonder how much influence Eteri yields in Beijing.........

 

[Artemisa]

I saw this result (D/S) coming after Warsaw, but was told it would never happen. IMO it was in the works since the US Classic, where D/S placed 2nd behind Hubbell / Donohue.

Wonder how much influence Eteri yields in Beijing.........

I don't know ... but not enough ... we have to count at least in front of them with the one french team, one/two canadian teams, two USA teams and one italian .. and 2 russian ... so with luck they will be in the top 10 with a push.. because internationally there not only russia pushing ( and russia will push for K/S because they are the only ones who get a shot at the podium) .... there will be other countries ...

 

[Hyena]

I'm thrilled Khudaiberdieva/Bazin medaled here and hope they'll get a chance at a major event this season (which is pretty likely). I'm not really a fan of either program this year, but I think they're really talented and deserve the opportunity.

And this is slightly off topic, but I'm looking forward to next year already to see how Khavronina/Cirisano and Kaganovskaia/Angelepol do in this field. They're good enough to shake up the standings IMO.

 

[labgoat]

What do we think the odds of SinKats even being healthy enough to be assigned to the Olympics are? If they aren't in good shape/don't go, I feel like that changes the chances of Russia winning team gold.

50-50. Some many possibilities.
He could be mildly injured/healthy, but making/made some changes and strategically don't want to show them yet.
They may not want to risk any negative feedback should any back problems affect any changes made in the free.
The injury is worse than reported or just bad enough to need a break from any lifts.
Doing the RD keeps them in the conversation without jeopardizing their position.
I wish them good health for they have worked hard and we will see what happens.

 

[bramweld]

I don't understand all the fuss about D/S. I quite like them. Their scores were inflated but so were everyone elses. I mean the scores for S/B were ridiculous. I don't find M/B or K/B particularly compelling. Smolkin outskates and outperforms both Bazin and Bagin in my book so it gives his pair an edge. There is a lack of really interesting and polished pairs at the moment beyond the top 2 but I see 2 - 3 junior pairs coming up that could easily share if not take the spotlight from D/S. So if this is their moment, let them have it!

Is it their fault that Tiff fell ill or that Sinkats are notorious for overtraining and thus courting injury? SinKats will be hobbling with back braces, crutches, and whatever else is needed to these OGs. Nobody seems to be talking about that. Last year they also claimed injury then went off to skate in Navka's Shows. Sounds like a little boy crying wolf too many times. Simply, Eteri saw an opening and she took it. Period.

 

[Tolstoj]

(Just one little hint: the picture of Eteri&Ted is two years old and has nothing to do with this championships, but everyone as the right to be fooled by whatever he wants )

Oh sorry, this is the one from these championships.

I bet Eteri broke Nikita's back and infected Tiff with meningitis, right

Let's agree on this. We will spare this thread from my delusion and your hate, deal?

Rumors say S/K strategically withdrawn to allow D/S to rise and with the RusFed rule, first and second are automatically qualified for Europeans so there you have it.

Zhulin is close friend with Eteri, they lost nothing with this move, S/K are still the first couple in Russia and already qualified, D/S are now automatically qualified with no possibility of a Mozalev situation.

I don't fully believe it yet but it is interesting that literally few hours after the competition, Zhulin said on an article that Nikita is fine and ready for Europeans.

 

[peepsquick]

Oh sorry, this is the one from these championships.

Rumors say S/K strategically withdrawn to allow D/S to rise and with the RusFed rule, first and second are automatically qualified for Europeans so there you have it.

Zhulin is close friend with Eteri, they lost nothing with this move, S/K are still the first couple in Russia and already qualified, D/S are now automatically qualified with no possibility of a Mozalev situation.

I don't fully believe it yet but it is interesting that literally few hours after the competition, Zhulin said on an article that Nikita is fine and ready for Europeans.

Isn't it considered cheating? (real question ... no sarcasm involved)

 

[flanker]

Oh sorry, this is the one from these championships.

Rumors say S/K strategically withdrawn to allow D/S to rise and with the RusFed rule, first and second are automatically qualified for Europeans so there you have it.

Zhulin is close friend with Eteri, they lost nothing with this move, S/K are still the first couple in Russia and already qualified, D/S are now automatically qualified with no possibility of a Mozalev situation.

I don't fully believe it yet but it is interesting that literally few hours after the competition, Zhulin said on an article that Nikita is fine and ready for Europeans.

"I don't fully believe it but..." is something like "I'm not a hater but..."

Yes, and Earth is flat.

 

[Tolstoj]

"I don't fully believe it but..." is something like "I'm not a hater but..."

Yes, and Earth is flat.

Well if you're injured to the point you have to skip a competition, saying you're totally fine 2 hours after or so, and ready for the next competition comes across as very suspicious to say the least.

Isn't it considered cheating? (real question ... no sarcasm involved)

Ice Dance is all about this nonsense.

4 years after i still do not know if Bukin was positive to doping or what since he was not invited to the 2018 Olympics.

 

[flanker]

Well if you're injured to the point you have to skip a competition, saying you're totally fine 2 hours after or so, and ready for the next competition comes across as very suspicious to say the least.

Be suspicious about anything you like, you do not need my permission. Just don't expect my recognition.

 

[lurkerghost1]

I don't understand all the fuss about D/S. I quite like them. Their scores were inflated but so were everyone elses. I mean the scores for S/B were ridiculous.

their scorers were much much more inflated than anyone else, that's why. The highest debut score ever for a team at Rusnats and its not even close. Their only domestic result from last season was 186 at cup finals so that's a gain of 21 points. It's so obvious when you compare their scores vs. the other teams that skated at both 2020 and 2021 nationals:

Team	2020	2021	Change
Davis/Smolkin	186 (junior cup finals)	207	+21
Morozov/Bagin	182	195	+12*
Stepanova/Bukin	220	223	+3
Khudiaberdieva/Bazin	192	195	+3
Shanaeva/Narzhnyy	184 (junior nats)	187	+3
Mironova/Ustenko	160	163	+3
Pavlenina/Aleksanyan	152	154`	+2
Zahorski/Guerriero	84	79	-5**
Ushakova/Nekrasov	187 (junior nats)	180	-7
Skoptcova/Aleshin	196	185	-11

* M/B bombed the 2020 RD which is their lowest RD score in 3 years. Plus they have their own share of nepotism too.
**Z/G bombed the 2021 FD but the RD was nominally clean and can be compared. Side note the judges robbed them of their deserved key points for the midnight blues YTNY while giving Davis/Smolkin the ridiculous YYYY which should have been YTNT.

S/N and U/N also moved to seniors this season so you can't say the D/S +21 bump was just from moving to seniors.

I don't find M/B or K/B particularly compelling. Smolkin outskates and outperforms both Bazin and Bagin in my book so it gives his pair an edge. There is a lack of really interesting and polished pairs at the moment beyond the top 2 but I see 2 - 3 junior pairs coming up that could easily share if not take the spotlight from D/S. So if this is their moment, let them have it!

Is it their fault that Tiff fell ill or that Sinkats are notorious for overtraining and thus courting injury? SinKats will be hobbling with back braces, crutches, and whatever else is needed to these OGs. Nobody seems to be talking about that. Last year they also claimed injury then went off to skate in Navka's Shows. Sounds like a little boy crying wolf too many times. Simply, Eteri saw an opening and she took it. Period.

Why do you think Smolkin is better than Bazin, in skating Smolkin is always out of sync with Davis (although that could be her fault more than his), spends a ridiculous amount of time on two feet, and can barely skate with her in hold for more than 3 seconds. He is good at maintaining stability in the lifts I guess. In performing maybe he thinks he is as cool as Nathan Chen with his boom boom pow but he is most definitely not and it is embarrassing to watch, and in the free dance the posture and sharpness for a tango are totally missing. The audience and the other teams all know it too.

 

[bramweld]

their scorers were much much more inflated than anyone else, that's why. The highest debut score ever for a team at Rusnats and its not even close. Their only domestic result from last season was 186 at cup finals so that's a gain of 21 points. It's so obvious when you compare their scores vs. the other teams that skated at both 2020 and 2021 nationals:

Team	2020	2021	Change
Davis/Smolkin	186 (junior cup finals)	207	+21
Morozov/Bagin	182	195	+12*
Stepanova/Bukin	220	223	+3
Khudiaberdieva/Bazin	192	195	+3
Shanaeva/Narzhnyy	184 (junior nats)	187	+3
Mironova/Ustenko	160	163	+3
Pavlenina/Aleksanyan	152	154`	+2
Zahorski/Guerriero	84	79	-5**
Ushakova/Nekrasov	187 (junior nats)	180	-7
Skoptcova/Aleshin	196	185	-11

* M/B bombed the 2020 RD which is their lowest RD score in 3 years. Plus they have their own share of nepotism too.
**Z/G bombed the 2021 FD but the RD was nominally clean and can be compared. Side note the judges robbed them of their deserved key points for the midnight blues YTNY while giving Davis/Smolkin the ridiculous YYYY which should have been YTNT.

S/N and U/N also moved to seniors this season so you can't say the D/S +21 bump was just from moving to seniors.

Why do you think Smolkin is better than Bazin, in skating Smolkin is always out of sync with Davis (although that could be her fault more than his), spends a ridiculous amount of time on two feet, and can barely skate with her in hold for more than 3 seconds. He is good at maintaining stability in the lifts I guess. In performing maybe he thinks he is as cool as Nathan Chen with his boom boom pow but he is most definitely not and it is embarrassing to watch, and in the free dance the posture and sharpness for a tango are totally missing. The audience and the other teams all know it too.

I note your comments regarding scores but I still find Bazin and Bagin faceless and uninteresting. I cannot watch either their RD or FD from start to finish. I don't find their postures that refined either. If M/B or K/B had interesting programs and presented them well I would understand the fuss. Igor knows how to prepare a team and sell them well. For D/S I found their lifts attention grabbing and their twizzles impressive. D/S also have a good connection between them. I find that neither M/B or K/B have any chemistry. So D/S is just the least meh of the bunch. As for S/A they look sluggish and mismatched. So again D/S just filled a void.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I’m sorry but D/S’ scores were outrageous and completely undeserved. Gleb is actually not too bad but Diana’s performance quality is just mediocre comparatively speaking. Euros judging will hopefully bring the farce that has been their scoring since Warsaw back down to earth.

Let’s also not pretend that Z/G would have been held back for D/S even if Tiff were okay.

Thrilled for S/B but it sucks the scores were only so high because of S/K’s withdrawal, when they really do deserve praise. This hopefully means they can do the team event though.

 

[bramweld]

I’m sorry but D/S’ scores were outrageous and completely undeserved. Gleb is actually not too bad but Diana’s performance quality is just mediocre comparatively speaking. Euros judging will hopefully bring the farce that has been their scoring since Warsaw back down to earth.

Let’s also not pretend that Z/G would have been held back for D/S even if Tiff were okay.

Thrilled for S/B but it sucks the scores were only so high because of S/K’s withdrawal, when they really do deserve praise. This hopefully means they can do the team event though.

If they dumped a healthy Z/G now I would be buying that argument. But the skating skills and programs of Z/G were good this season. The judges would have a genuine riot. It couldn't happen.

Stepanova has lovely extension but her poor posture, lack of power and nimbleness just minimizes the impact their programs could have. I think FB/S and S/D should be outscoring them.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Russian Skating: A Conspiracy Theorist's Heaven.

Though it may be said that nepotism will only take you so far...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If they dumped a healthy Z/G now I would be buying that argument. But the skating skills and programs of Z/G were good this season. The judges would have a genuine riot. It couldn't happen.

Stepanova has lovely extension but her poor posture, lack of power and nimbleness just minimizes the impact their programs could have. I think FB/S and S/D should be outscoring them.

I would put S/B over FB/S only slightly because I do like their performance quality more. Yes, the posture could be better but they are still exciting to watch. S/D in a rightful world would be on par if not better than S/B this season - their FD is just wonderful to watch, and they exude confidence.

 

[Seven Sisters]

Russian Skating: A Conspiracy Theorist's Heaven.

Though it may be said that nepotism will only take you so far...

We hope

Happy Holidays to you and yours, WA—it’s great to hear from you!

 

[WeakAnkles]

We hope

Happy Holidays to you and yours, WA—it’s great to hear from you!

Thanks kiddo. Have a happy and most importantly, a HEALTHY 2022. Always good to read your posts. You get BOTH pom poms!