2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[skatingiscool]

Yes, I definitely think Alysa will still be top 5. I just thought she would have a clear win at Nationals before ( due to the Fed likely underscoring the juniors for political reasons.. See what happened in Russia) and Bradie's injury but now I am a bit .

If Alysa new SP and LP has less crazy transitions and focus on more jump preparations/setup, it will help her stamina and reserve energy for "rotating" 3-3 in later half program. Young You has a LOOOOONG set up for 3A which is a good idea IMO. Also, learn something new from Russia championship - Anna 3/3 in later half beat Liza 3A.

 

[beepboop]

I would imagine that if things were going poorly with Alysa's training they would focus on tech rather than making her waste time on learning a new program. They can easily take transitions out without scrapping the program entirely. So maybe I'm naive but I'm choosing to take the program news as good news about her development, although I did love that SP.

 

[beepboop]

Although, to add to the doom and gloom, let's not forget that Isabeau was so injured recently that she withdrew from JGPF, so if any junior is going to be the new national champ it's probably going to be Lindsay

 

[readernick]

Although, to add to the doom and gloom, let's not forget that Isabeau was so injured recently that she withdrew from JGPF, so if any junior is going to be the new national champ it's probably going to be Lindsay

That's my prediction. She seems to be the only one who can consistently delivery everything.

 

[beepboop]

That's my prediction. She seems to be the only one who can consistently delivery everything.

Lindsay just barely broke 200 with relatively clean skates and domestic scoring at Leesburg... she's a very promising skater and I like her a lot, but quite a few skaters will have to flop very badly for her to be the next champion. If Alysa, Bradie, and Isabeau are all in poor form, my money would be on Mariah. She seems to thrive as an underdog and she has some good momentum after Rostelecom.

 

[RatedPG]

Just want to add that I’m praying for Bradie to be ready on time. My friend that saw her do a run through, about a week ago, saw her do 3Lz< 3T<<, 2A, 3F<; think Audrey Shin type of skate. She seems to have issues rotating her triples and this is why she may or may not compete at Nationals. Her problem, in the past year, is that she is too ambitious and gets in the ice not fully healed and then the injury comes back and she is out for a few months, which is frustrating. Her goal this year was to be healthy with the goal of learning the 3A (I just love her fighting spirit), but, with this injury, she is just hoping she can be good enough and rotate enough triples to make it to the Olympic team, with the dream of executing her US Nationals performance last year at the Olympics. Of course now that she is pushing herself harder to be decent at Nationals, her worry is that this push may aggravate the injury and then force her to pull out. So, it is that delicate balance of pushing hard, but, not too hard as an injury would end her Olympic dream. If this wasn’t an Olympics season, she would have just taken the year off and taken her time and debuted next year. But, Bradie is a fighter. This is what I like about her and why I root and pray for her to be ready with her triples with no injury in a weeks time.

 

[moonvine]

What‘s worrying me the most about this whole thing is that Bradie’s coach is the one who is saying that this will be a hail mary, not just the fans or other people with random knowledge about this situation.

She has stated she plans to complete next year “no matter what” so there is that.

 

[yelyoh]

Perhaps copyright issue? Both SP and LP are designed and choreographed by Massimo Scali. Perhaps Massimo is very pissed off at Alysa and won't let her new team to use his work? Alysa dad doesn't handle the situation very well. I'm sure Massimo is very pissed off because he can't go to Olympics games. If it's about copyright and money issue, I won't be surprised if Alysa is "forced" to have a new LP as well.

But this is a contractural arrangement and since the skater pays for the program in essence does not that permit the skater to use the material created just for them? Where did you get this information? Is this a part of figure skating contract law? And how do we know her dad handled this badly?

 

[Dawn825]

Everyone just saw Russia, known for letting their junior ladies run wild at Nationals, force a fully senior podium in order to protect the reputation of their Olympic team. The US might be taking notes and getting ready to manipulate their own scores a litte. If they have to send Mariah and Karen, they don't want to send them as the reigning 4th and 5th placers.

 

[MrMC18]

I really feel like these Nationals will be great for Karen. She tends to deliver when it matters most (i.e. 2017 worlds, 2018 nationals, and now 2021 worlds). Looking at her results from her 2017-18 Grand Prix circuit, she's heading on a similar path this season: a decent challenger event performance, a flop at Skate Canada, then a better 2nd grand Prix, then finally a great performance at nationals (??)

The only reason we're discussing having these 3 spots for the women is because of Karen. Bradie messed up so badly at worlds, and it's been 8 months since we saw her last compete internationally. I wouldn't bet anything on her.

 

[dancelion21]

Article by Phil Hersh about Isabeau. Isabeau has also been a question mark in the past month since she withdrew from the Junior Grand Prix Final due to a "lower body" injury. She's planning to compete at US Nationals with the tech content that she did on the JGP Circuit, backloading all of her combos with two triple-triples in the free skate. If Isabeau is in the condition she was on the JGP, she will be a favorite to podium, and could possibly win depending on how harshly underrotations are called. We will have to see in practices to see how she is recovering from injury that was severe enough to withdraw relatively early from the Junior Grand Prix Final.

At age 14 and just 4-foot-9, figure skater Isabeau Levito within reach of senior podium at nationals

About 12 years ago, Chiara Garberi decided to check out the ice rink in her New Jersey neighborhood to see if it might be a place where she could skate for fun on weekends.

olympics.nbcsports.com

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Choreographers don't have 'copyright' over choreography. The skaters pay for the choreo and it belongs to them. Plus, even if Massimo is angered by Alysa's leaving, he must be aware that his choreography is good and that having it viewed by millions of people at the Olympics would be only good for his reputation. It's a great program. I think it is more likely they are choreographing a program with less transitions, so Alysa will have more energy to fully rotate her jumps. This could be a smart strategy but it is so close to Nationals. It doesn't seem like a good idea and makes it appear like something is wrong.

This is a possibility. You aren't going to make up jump errors with great choreography, and frankly you don't really need good choreography to earn high PCS marks if you do everything else well as we've seen with Liza.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The only reason we're discussing having these 3 spots for the women is because of Karen. Bradie messed up so badly at worlds, and it's been 8 months since we saw her last compete internationally. I wouldn't bet anything on her.

While Karen placed higher than expected at Worlds, we would not have three spots without Bradie's placement and Alysa's contribution earlier this season. I think Karen has a better than 50/50 chance of making the team because the American women have been struggling this season, but I wouldn't put her on the team on the basis of her single-handedly earning the US three spots because she didn't do it alone.

 

[el henry]

But this is a contractural arrangement and since the skater pays for the program in essence does not that permit the skater to use the material created just for them? Where did you get this information? Is this a part of figure skating contract law? And how do we know her dad handled this badly?

I believe this has been handled in previous posts.

Choreography would in most cases be a "work for hire", meaning that once the skater has paid for the choreography, the skater can use the program as he or she sees fit. Mariah continued to use Rohene Ward's programs in her first year with Raf (she also had Rohene sit with her in the KnC). When Tomoki Hiwatashi left Kori Ade before the season end (I forget the year), he continued to use Rohene's programs. No choreographer cares if you "leave"; they care if you perform their program well and as they envisioned.

And, off topic, as far as I'm concerned both those skaters should have had Rohene choreo after that.

I don't know Alysa's father and I have no idea who did or did not make the decision about a new SP. To me that is irrelevant. It is an unusual decision if it is a brand new SP is developed two weeks before Nats, but we will see if it works for her.

 

[MrMC18]

While Karen placed higher than expected at Worlds, we would not have three spots without Bradie's placement and Alysa's contribution earlier this season. I think Karen has a better than 50/50 chance of making the team because the American women have been struggling this season, but I wouldn't put her on the team on the basis of her single-handedly earning the US three spots because she didn't do it alone.

I never said that she should be on the team on the basis of her placing 4th at worlds. I'm saying that her placement at worlds and at other events should be considered when predicting how she will do at the upcoming nationals.

The only other skater who should be given credit for getting the US women 3 spots is Alysa for confirming it at Nebelhorn. Bradie's 9th place finish in a very weak World Championships field was not an asset but was a severe liability to getting the US 3 spots. The only reason Karen had to place as high as 4th was because of Bradie's poor performance.

Either way, I don't think Bradie will do well at these upcoming nationals. As stated by someone who saw her do a run-through this past week, she was UR-ing and downgrading even basic triples like standalone 3Ts. If she can prove me wrong I'd be happy but a lot of these predictions of people placing Bradie as high as 2nd at Nats are clearly biased and irrational.

The team as of right now looks like Alysa first, Mariah 2nd, and Karen 3rd.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I never said that she should be on the team on the basis of her placing 4th at worlds. I'm saying that her placement at worlds and at other events should be considered when predicting how she will do at the upcoming nationals.

Karen is an up-and-down skater. The last time she placed 4th at Worlds, she followed it up the next season with an 11th place effort at the Olympics. You never know what you are going to get with her, although she's generally good at Nationals. I'll be disappointed if both she and Mariah make the team without a 3-3, because that would mean the bar is really getting much lower for the American women.

 

[MrMC18]

Karen is an up-and-down skater. The last time she placed 4th at Worlds, she followed it up the next season with an 11th place effort at the Olympics. You never know what you are going to get with her, although she's generally good at Nationals. I'll be disappointed if both she and Mariah make the team without a 3-3, because that would mean the bar is really getting much lower for the American women.

This is true and ur example of her placing 11th at Olympics is definitely valid. But I personally believe she will at least make top 3 at these Nats, given her past nationals performances and her trajectory this season.

 

[bubblecherry]

Karen is an up-and-down skater. The last time she placed 4th at Worlds, she followed it up the next season with an 11th place effort at the Olympics. You never know what you are going to get with her, although she's generally good at Nationals. I'll be disappointed if both she and Mariah make the team without a 3-3, because that would mean the bar is really getting much lower for the American women.

Karen will do a 3-3 in FS as she has been doing all season. She will do a 3-3 in the SP as long as the first jump is stable enough to not double it. Karen has raised her BV this year (which I think is part of the reason why she went from being somewhat consistent last season to more inconsistent this season- the layout is more difficult) and hopefully she will finally be able to deliver it cleanly at nationals.

 

[bubblecherry]

Article by Phil Hersh about Isabeau. Isabeau has also been a question mark in the past month since she withdrew from the Junior Grand Prix Final due to a "lower body" injury. She's planning to compete at US Nationals with the tech content that she did on the JGP Circuit, backloading all of her combos with two triple-triples in the free skate. If Isabeau is in the condition she was on the JGP, she will be a favorite to podium, and could possibly win depending on how harshly underrotations are called. We will have to see in practices to see how she is recovering from injury that was severe enough to withdraw relatively early from the Junior Grand Prix Final.

At age 14 and just 4-foot-9, figure skater Isabeau Levito within reach of senior podium at nationals

About 12 years ago, Chiara Garberi decided to check out the ice rink in her New Jersey neighborhood to see if it might be a place where she could skate for fun on weekends.

olympics.nbcsports.com

Lovely article. Isabeau and Yulia seem to have a good mindset and they seem confident going into nationals. I think/hope this means she has recovered well and is ready for Nats!

 

[yelyoh]

I believe this has been handled in previous posts.

Choreography would in most cases be a "work for hire", meaning that once the skater has paid for the choreography, the skater can use the program as he or she sees fit. Mariah continued to use Rohene Ward's programs in her first year with Raf (she also had Rohene sit with her in the KnC). When Tomoki Hiwatashi left Kori Ade before the season end (I forget the year), he continued to use Rohene's programs. No choreographer cares if you "leave"; they care if you perform their program well and as they envisioned.

And, off topic, as far as I'm concerned both those skaters should have had Rohene choreo after that.

I don't know Alysa's father and I have no idea who did or did not make the decision about a new SP. To me that is irrelevant. It is an unusual decision if it is a brand new SP is developed two weeks before Nats, but we will see if it works for her.

I responded to someone else's response to my comments. I don't think there's a limit to how many times we can contribute to a topic especially if someone else has responded to one's own.