2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[lurkerghost1]

If they call you not a real fan of Elizavita that's on them. You are a reasonable fan and that's the difference.

I know it's hard to swallow that Liza has had 3 chances at the Olympic team and has not gone once. Yet the overrated and over scored Misha is going to his 2nd Olympics. its the political power the professor has and has had for many years why his guys get the breaks. I guess Mishins influence works better with the men because they're not nearly as deep as the Russian ladies are.

how is misha overscored, he is the highest quality skater in the world in any discipline, yes higher than Hanyu or Brown or Valieva or Sakamoto or Sui/Han or Papadakis/Cizeron or Sinitsina/Katsalapov. His GOE should be through the roof on any clean element and the White Crow is one of the top three programs this year in men's and one of the best programs of the whole quad in any discipline. If anything he is underscored in PCS vs. Chen and Hanyu

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I’m not liking this. I’m not liking that my fellow Liza fans are trying to use politics to get her on the team.

I like Liza and hoped she would make the team, but she made two costly mistakes in the SP that took her out of contention. She is weaker than Anna on PCS and Sasha on TES, so Liza really needed to be perfect to beat the other two if they skated well.

 

[Scott512]

how is misha overscored, he is the highest quality skater in the world in any discipline, yes higher than Hanyu or Brown or Valieva or Sakamoto or Sui/Han or Papadakis/Cizeron or Sinitsina/Katsalapov. His GOE should be through the roof on any clean element and the White Crow is one of the top three programs this year in men's and one of the best programs of the whole quad in any discipline. If anything he is underscored in PCS vs. Chen and Hanyu

It's not like hes not a really good skater of course. I just kind of overreacted a bit after 2018 team event at the Olympic.. He just needs to come up bigger in the team event this time. He has the program to do it.
I guess white crow could be one of the turning turning points in the team event and lead it to gold .

Russia should do very well in the team event with the ladies and pairs and hope for the best for the men and dance.Dad has been riddled with injuries this season. This season we can't assume anything. I just hope everybody stays healthy through the Olympics. The stress and strain must be amazing.

 

[Jontor]

I just watched the conference, as it just got translated to English and one journalist asked Anna on why she should go to the Olympics, when Liza has the triple axel and how she managed to beat Liza by 15 points with no ultra-c element? that this is an important questions and she should need to justify herself. Of course Anna answered diplomatically with the truth that it is not up to her, she just does her job and skates and it is up to the judges to score and the Russian federation to select the Olympic team.

But, I’m so tired of this Liza should be on the team instead of Anna narrative when Liza hasn’t beaten Anna and Anna has the triple triple combos that Liza doesn’t.

Yes, people forget that Anna has THREE 3+3's combos in her free program. That is huge. Only Trusova/Valieva can match that.

As much as I love Liza, she had ZERO 3+3's in her free skate.

 

[prorussian fan]

Yes, people forget that Anna has THREE 3+3's combos in her free program. That is huge. Only Trusova/Valieva can match that.

As much as I love Liza, she had ZERO 3+3's in her free skate.

To emphasize Liza had ZERO 3-3 combos in the entire event.
But people like Plushenko, who was an athlete and now a "coach" cannot understand what is BV or interpret the protocols and only spit out envy and speak because they have mouths.

 

[Scott512]

Yes, people forget that Anna has THREE 3+3's combos in her free program. That is huge. Only Trusova/Valieva can match that.

As much as I love Liza, she had ZERO 3+3's in her free skate.

Didn't Anna win worlds going away in March even falling in her quad in the free? Where was the outrage? Yeah I know there was outrage after the short program when people were freaking out that Rika was not in 1st. I think a lot of peoples frustrations about Anna and EG stems from that SP. That it was an EG girl so of course she gets big scores unjustifiably. BS.

You said Liza did not do 3 - 3 combination in her free. I thought it was her SP? How can a skater like Liza who does one of the best triple axles in the world not do a 3 - 3 let alone the three 3 - 3z that Anna does. Anna sure knows how to rack up the points as well as any lady.

Anna neds to stay focused Liza it needs to stay focused because tbecause the alternate has never been more important for an Olympics in this year when anybody can get sick or injured at any time. I hope everybody stays healthy but they have to be ready for anything.

Anna is also the 2nd most clutch Russian lady I've ever seen. Right behind Zhenya. I go all the way back to Irina so I have seen many of the great Russinas.

 

[Scott512]

To emphasize Liza had ZERO 3-3 combos in the entire event.
But people like Plushenko, who was an athlete and now a "coach" cannot understand what is BV or interpret the protocols and only spit out envy and speak because they have mouths.

It's just staggering. Plushy was one of the greatest of all time and for years he was the goat before Yuzu. That he doesn't understand how Anya is racking up the points event after event for 3 years is frustrating and disappointing because we know he knows better. The TT ladies take advantage of every opportunity to score points the Mishin ladies do not.

Plushy has 4 super girls between 13 and 15 and I'm sure they are all noticing how Anya and the other TT girls rack up points event after event.
Don't leave points on the table if you don't have to.

 

[Thrashergurl]

obviously there are many people questioning Anna’s podium finish. She hasn’t skated well all season. The short program scoring nonsense didn’t do her reputation any favors either. Her team knew she’d struggle with with long and needed that point.

I don’t think the reporter was out of line with the questions. I’ve seen it done many times to various skaters. Anna’s answered as if she knew it would be asked. She knows she can skate better.

I also don’t think Plushy is out of line for questioning the judging. Many people are. It clearly wasn’t judged fair.

With this very unpredictable skating season with injuries and Covid, I’m certain Liza will continue training.

In the end, everyone knew someone would be left off the team.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

You said Liza did not do 3 - 3 combination in her free. I thought it was her SP? How can a skater like Liza who does one of the best triple axles in the world not do a 3 - 3 let alone the three 3 - 3z that Anna does. Anna sure knows how to rack up the points as well as any lady.

With her 3A, Liza probably needed only one 3-3 in each program. The 2A-3S she does gets the same GOE scale as a 3-3, but her team made some strange choices. She does that 3Lz-2A combo in the LP that gets a BV downgrade, but she not only trains a 3Lz-3T and planned it in her SP, I don't think she even did a 3T in the LP so she could have tried that same combination in the LP for more points. Still, it was a good event for her and she probably would have made the Olympic team in any other country the world skating like that.

 

[chuckm]

how is misha overscored, he is the highest quality skater in the world in any discipline, yes higher than Hanyu or Brown or Valieva or Sakamoto or Sui/Han or Papadakis/Cizeron or Sinitsina/Katsalapov. His GOE should be through the roof on any clean element and the White Crow is one of the top three programs this year in men's and one of the best programs of the whole quad in any discipline. If anything he is underscored in PCS vs. Chen and Hanyu

Misha has only 4s and 4t, and often in competition he falls or pops at least one of them. At this last Russian Nationals, he popped the axel to 1a in the SP, and in the FS he popped the 3rd intended quad, a 4t to a 3t.

At GP Italy, in the SP, he fell on the solo 4t, which was landed on the quarter. In the FS, he stepped out of the 4s, and again on the solo 4t.

At Rostelecom, In the SP he stepped out of the 4s, then fell on the 4t, so had no combination jump. In the FS, he fell on the opening 4s, and stepped out of the 4t, putting a hand down.

Skating fans remember such flawed performances. I can't remember the last time Misha skated two clean programs in one event. Certainly he has yet to do so this year. Perhaps that is the reason for the comment about overscoring.

Nathan Chen does a variety of quads, including 4z, 4f, 4s and 4t. He had a TES of 107.68 in the FS at Skate Canada. Compare that to Misha's 93.86 TES in the FS at Nationals, 92.52 at Rostelecom, and 93.47 at GP Italy.

You say Misha is better than Chen and Hanyu. The record does not support that.

Yuzuru Hanyu has won 2 OGMs (2014 and 2018), two World Championships, and 4 GPF gold. He won 2020 4 Continents gold.

Nathan Chen has won the last three World Championships and the last 3 GPF golds. He won 4 Continents gold in 2017.

Misha has one World medal, a bronze, from 2018 Worlds. In 2019 he was 6th, and 2021, 5th. He went to one GPF in 2017 and won bronze. He has never won the European Championship; he has two bronze medals from 2017 and 2018.

Misha has been the best Russian man over the past quadrennial, but sorry, he just isn't nearly on the same level as Hanyu and Chen.

 

[Amei]

With her 3A, Liza probably needed only one 3-3 in each program. The 2A-3S she does gets the same GOE scale as a 3-3, but her team made some strange choices. She does that 3Lz-2A combo in the LP that gets a BV downgrade, but she not only trains a 3Lz-3T and planned it in her SP, I don't think she even did a 3T in the LP so she could have tried that same combination in the LP for more points. Still, it was a good event for her and she probably would have made the Olympic team in any other country the world skating like that.

The management of Tuktamysheva is baffling and I think is a big part in why she will likely retire without ever stepping on Olympic ice. She does some of the lowest point value combinations and per my earlier post - she's reactive to what the other ladies bring to the table like doing multiple triple axels in the FS or learning quads once Shcherbakova and Trusova hopped on the senior circuit then we started getting videos of Tuktamysheva landing quads in practice but to date there's only been 1 attempt in competition.

Why weren't they training them with any seriousness prior to her getting beaten by Shcherbakova in the 19-20 GP season, its not like Trusova and Shcherbakova kept it secret that they were going to bringing quads to the senior ranks. I can understand not going for a layout you aren't landing at Nationals but Tuktamysheva historically has done a lot of smaller competitions (usually 3-4 a year) but she hasn't used them as training grounds in competition for more difficult layouts to even try, she's going with largely the same BV that she's done for years - that's lost to skaters without triple axels/quads.

 

[flanker]

obviously there are many people questioning Anna’s podium finish. She hasn’t skated well all season. The short program scoring nonsense didn’t do her reputation any favors either. Her team knew she’d struggle with with long and needed that point.

I don’t think the reporter was out of line with the questions. I’ve seen it done many times to various skaters. Anna’s answered as if she knew it would be asked. She knows she can skate better.

I also don’t think Plushy is out of line for questioning the judging. Many people are. It clearly wasn’t judged fair.

With this very unpredictable skating season with injuries and Covid, I’m certain Liza will continue training.

In the end, everyone knew someone would be left off the team.

Everyone knows Anna can skate better and she has shown that many times, incl. this season (hint: she still has the second highest int. season best only after Kamila), only usual suspects start everyday's folklore "she's done and should be replaced" (by a worse skater in every sense). Which doesn't change a thing that Liza is no replace for Anna. And doesn't change a thing that:
- The press-conference question was a tabloid-level of professionalism (as is any suggestion that Anna probably ordered that question by herself );
- Plushenko is the last one with the right to question scoring, at the last stage of the cup despite the disastrous skate by his pupil it was obvious who the judges kept on the golden position. "I watched Anya’s trainings". Sounds voyeurish.

 

[Jontor]

It's just staggering. Plushy was one of the greatest of all time and for years he was the goat before Yuzu. That he doesn't understand how Anya is racking up the points event after event for 3 years is frustrating and disappointing because we know he knows better. The TT ladies take advantage of every opportunity to score points the Mishin ladies do not.

Plushy has 4 super girls between 13 and 15 and I'm sure they are all noticing how Anya and the other TT girls rack up points event after event.
Don't leave points on the table if you don't have to.

Plushy was great in his day but he is not a great coach. Zinina's layout in the free was just bad. Going for two 4T's when she has never landed a single one. Going for one is gutsy (like Sinitsyna did!), but everyone knows that if you don't land the first quad you don't go for the same quad again. The +REP you get if you miss makes it worthless. Zinina got after fall deductions 2.80 points for the first quad and -0.16 for the second one. Yes, she actually got negative points for the second quad attempt. That is the sum of 2.64 points for two jumping passes. As opposed to two 3+3's that Zinina can do which would get her about 25 points.
Then she got stressed and tried to add a combination later in the program which made her fall a 3rd time. All because of the bad layout of the program.
There is clearly a lack of a Plan B in Plushy's coaching.

 

[Amei]

Misha has only 4s and 4t, and often in competition he falls or pops at least one of them. At this last Russian Nationals, he popped the axel to 1a in the SP, and in the FS he popped the 3rd intended quad, a 4t to a 3t.

At GP Italy, in the SP, he fell on the solo 4t, which was landed on the quarter. In the FS, he stepped out of the 4s, and again on the solo 4t.

At Rostelecom, In the SP he stepped out of the 4s, then fell on the 4t, so had no combination jump. In the FS, he fell on the opening 4s, and stepped out of the 4t, putting a hand down.

Skating fans remember such flawed performances. I can't remember the last time Misha skated two clean programs in one event. Certainly he has yet to do so this year. Perhaps that is the reason for the comment about overscoring.

Nathan Chen does a variety of quads, including 4z, 4f, 4s and 4t. He had a TES of 107.68 in the FS at Skate Canada. Compare that to Misha's 93.86 TES in the FS at Nationals, 92.52 at Rostelecom, and 93.47 at GP Italy.

You say Misha is better than Chen and Hanyu. The record does not support that.

Yuzuru Hanyu has won 2 OGMs (2014 and 2018), two World Championships, and 4 GPF gold. He won 2020 4 Continents gold.

Nathan Chen has won the last three World Championships and the last 3 GPF golds. He won 4 Continents gold in 2017.

Misha has one World medal, a bronze, from 2018 Worlds. In 2019 he was 6th, and 2021, 5th. He went to one GPF in 2017 and won bronze. He has never won the European Championship; he has two bronze medals from 2017 and 2018.

Misha has been the best Russian man over the past quadrennial, but sorry, he just isn't nearly on the same level as Hanyu and Chen.

Welcome to the Russian ladies Kolyada!

I disagree here granted this was prior to him needing sinus surgery and taking a whole year off so perhaps some of it he doesn't have anymore; but Kolyada has shown the technical goods (Youtube search his beautiful quad lutz Cup of China) and his carriage across the ice to absolutely challenge Hanyu and Chen...until you get to the mental part of it in competition something happens to him and it's like he can't help himself he must make a mistake or 2.

 

[Scott512]

obviously there are many people questioning Anna’s podium finish. She hasn’t skated well all season. The short program scoring nonsense didn’t do her reputation any favors either. Her team knew she’d struggle with with long and needed that point.

I don’t think the reporter was out of line with the questions. I’ve seen it done many times to various skaters. Anna’s answered as if she knew it would be asked. She knows she can skate better.

I also don’t think Plushy is out of line for questioning the judging. Many people are. It clearly wasn’t judged fair.

With this very unpredictable skating season with injuries and Covid, I’m certain Liza will continue training.

In the end, everyone knew someone would be left off the team.

Who else does that as a coach in Russia or any other country mentioning the name of the top or one of the top skaters at another camp negatively about scores? Eteri? Borser? Mishin? Moskvina? Any Japanese coach? Nope. Plushy would do better if he followed the lead of his mentor the professor.

I would say Plushenko is off to a good start in his coaching career after only a few years. But the powers that be will gang up on him if hes not careful even though he was one of the greatest of all time as a figure skater. He has a great group of girls who will probably do a great things in the next couple of years. At times some of them will be overscored like all top figure skaters are and I hope no other coaches single out a skater from his camp and pointing out how they were over scored humiliating that girl in front of the world like he did Anya right before Europeans and the Olympics.

EG will remember this and have her girls ready for junior Russian nationals.
That should be interesting. Plushy does not have to skate against Sofia Akatieva out for blood! But his girls do.Good luck with that.

I just hope people aren't gonna start complaining about SA's scores too.

 

[lopsilceci]

obviously there are many people questioning Anna’s podium finish. She hasn’t skated well all season. The short program scoring nonsense didn’t do her reputation any favors either. Her team knew she’d struggle with with long and needed that point.

Tell me a single skater who has had a better season and "skated well" by your standards.
Probably only Kamila. Everyone else, russian or other, has had some struggles.

 

[Scott512]

Plushy was great in his day but he is not a great coach. Zinina's layout in the free was just bad. Going for two 4T's when she has never landed a single one. Going for one is gutsy (like Sinitsyna did!), but everyone knows that if you don't land the first quad you don't go for the same quad again. The +REP you get if you miss makes it worthless. Zinina got after fall deductions 2.80 points for the first quad and -0.16 for the second one. Yes, she actually got negative points for the second quad attempt. That is the sum of 2.64 points for two jumping passes. As opposed to two 3+3's that Zinina can do which would get her about 25 points.
Then she got stressed and tried to add a combination later in the program which made her fall a 3rd time. All because of the bad layout of the program.
There is clearly a lack of a Plan B in Plushy's coaching.

He still learning how to coach. He has a very good group. Let's see what happens.

Your points about the layout for the new Nastya is spot on. I hope they realize that having NZ try to do that was too much. I hope falling 3 times in her freestyle does not do not do any long lasting damage to Nastyas psyche. Let her skate beautifully and artistically like she does and then have 3 - 3s everywhere. It's like you point it out its massive points doing 3 - 3s. That's how annual racks up so many points these last 3 years. Then add a quad down the road. NZ was so upset after her free skate. But she was underscored in her SP.

Why isn't Yulia working with this girl or some of those Plushy girls? She knows about layouts and everything that girls go through. Even if she's not the main coach she can advise these girls because she knows what they're going through. What Yulia can only work with 6 year olds? Lol.

Plushy was special even as a teenager not all of these girls are going to be. It will take time but hes got a really good group. Junior Russian nationals should be thrilling and maybe even more exciting than senior nationals.

 

[Scott512]

Tell me a single skater who has had a better season and "skated well" by your standards.
Probably only Kamila. Everyone else, russian or other, has had some struggles.

I know right? Aside from KV everyone else including Anya have had some struggles. Liza has been good this season there's no doubt about it. But her SP at nationals where she was over scored was a set back. Its been a tough year for the ladies sickness injuries and tremendous pressure in the Olympic season.

Also Anna came into the season as the clear number one in Russia and the world even though we all thought KV was going to overtake her at some point this season and she did.

From what I've seen in watching the Russian ladies the last 15 plus years is that Anna in terms of being clutch is 2nd only to Zhenya with the Russian ladies. By clutch I mean consistently good and not bombing events.

Good luck to them all the rest of the season let's hope we have a rest of the season and these awesome athletes get the opportunity of a lifetime. But I am concerned about omnicron messing everything up.

Europeans should be exciting it's less than 2 weeks away let's hope that does not get canceled.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Why weren't they training them with any seriousness prior to her getting beaten by Shcherbakova in the 19-20 GP season, its not like Trusova and Shcherbakova kept it secret that they were going to bringing quads to the senior ranks. I can understand not going for a layout you aren't landing at Nationals but Tuktamysheva historically has done a lot of smaller competitions (usually 3-4 a year) but she hasn't used them as training grounds in competition for more difficult layouts to even try, she's going with largely the same BV that she's done for years - that's lost to skaters without triple axels/quads.

I suspect that the quad wasn't nearly solid enough for competition and the team was worried that her program could unravel with a big mistake to start. Liza's strengths are her consistency and ability to build a lead in the SP, so two clean programs might have been enough since she would have put more pressure on Anna and Sasha with a perfect SP.

 

[Amei]

I suspect that the quad wasn't nearly solid enough for competition and the team was worried that her program could unravel with a big mistake to start. Liza's strengths are her consistency and ability to build a lead in the SP, so two clean programs might have been enough since she would have put more pressure on Anna and Sasha with a perfect SP.

The post you replied to I was not specifically talking about Nationals last weekend or even preparation coming into this season, I'm talking about her career as a whole that she was mismanaged by being reactive to the progression of the sport instead of leading it, had they been more proactive she might've been to the Olympics in 2018 as it stands right now she's hoping for someone to have an epic meltdown at Europeans or (heaven forbid it) an injury to someone else to have a shot at the Olympics in 2022.