2022 U.S. Nationals: Senior Free Dance

[Wafflecakes]

Not always been true, the ladies 2014 Pewter medalist went to the Olympics instead of the bronze medalist.

All this shows is how selection criteria have made placements meaningless, which is a whole other can of worms.

 

[TontoK]

That is why I said it should be used for potential medalists.

However, if they 20th team in the world screws up at nationals should they really go over the 24th team just because they had a better season?

I feel like that is where we are heading right now. None of the top teams in ANY discipline really had any threat of not making the OG. H/D, C/B, K/F, C/L, Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Mariah, Alysa, Karen..... not a one realistically was going to get stopped from going to the Olympics short of an implosion. The only question was 3rd in dance... which is kind if irrelevant since they won't get a spot in the team final.

Once again. What even is the point of nationals then? (though not an issue this year since everyone seems to be skating well)

It removes the tension, makes the event boring, and I think damages the sport because nothing is at stake. I feel like there needs to be a middle ground where nationals actually matters, but they reserve the right to take people in special circumstances (which I think should be reserved for world medalists).

I'm usually in agreement with you. I favor a trials-type Nationals... but in this case, with people getting COVID at the actual event and being forced to withdraw, I can understand.

So far, the skaters have risen to their expected placement and made the selection easy, but that's not always the case. And we still have the men to go, and one thing is clear from today - these guys came prepared to compete. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

 

[moonvine]

By that logic why not a medal for 5th and 6th? There are three alternates after all.

Lets just put everyone on the podium and give them a medal to "encourage" them for next year!

I keep saying they should do horse ribbon style which is 1-6. 1-8 get envelope funding. They could line up 1-8 and give them envelopes of cash.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Chock/Bates Free Dance just doesn't work on some level. No idea why they think this vehicle in an Olympic year is smart.

Not really a fan of Hubbell/Donohue's program this year either, but it feels a little more authentic for them at least.

 

[GGFan]

Hey @GGFan what was your in-person impression of Christina and Anthony?

It wasn't great on the TV, but sometimes it's a different story in person.

I felt really bad for them because a couple years ago I thought they were going places. Neither of their vehicles are great this season. The good part is that they have more power than H/B and G/P but the bad part is that Anthony tends to look sloppy. I think his nerves lead him to overskate and he sometimes looks like he's flinging Christina around. They need to do a lot of polishing.

 

[BravesSkateFan]

All this shows is how selection criteria have made placements meaningless, which is a whole other can of worms.

They're aren't meaningless, they determine who the National Champion is. I'm glad that they are finally using criteria other than just Nationals to determine World/Olympic teams. It should have always been that way IMO.

 

[TontoK]

I felt really bad for them because a couple years ago I thought they were going places. Neither of their vehicles are great this season. The good part is that they have more power than H/B and G/P but the bad part is that Anthony tends to look sloppy. I think his nerves lead him to overskate and he sometimes looks like he's flinging Christina around. They need to do a lot of polishing.

Thanks. I appreciate your response. Have fun tomorrow!

 

[Mathman]

Once again. What even is the point of nationals then? (though not an issue this year since everyone seems to be skating well)

It removes the tension, makes the event boring, and I think damages the sport because nothing is at stake. I feel like there needs to be a middle ground where nationals actually matters, but they reserve the right to take people in special circumstances (which I think should be reserved for world medalists).

Unfortunately, the only way to make Nationals' results more significant is to diminish our view of figure skating as an international sport. In the olden days, being national champion weas a goasl to be sought for its own sake -- I am the best in America! Fans in the U.S. did not care much about Wrlds (much less 4 Continents and the Grand Prix). The world championship was not even broadcast on major television and ended up as a tag-on snippet in the sports newsreel.

I agree with your post -- it would be nice if the skating establishment could find some ground in the middle.

 

[Bonnie F]

I was in the arena and as usual I don't understand ice dance scoring. I thought HB were clearly the best and to me they got the best audience reaction also. But I knew that the most they could hope for was third unless H D and CB withdrew prior to skating. I don't understand what keeps HB with a perpetual ceiling of third. I also didn't understand CP's terrible score. They seemed enjoyable and had no glaring errors. I think they are like HB and just aren't judges favorites and who knows how to change that. I would love to see Anthony partner with Lorraine in my dream world.

 

[ManyCairns]

For me, it was a great night of skating!

H/D: Thank goodness they muted the vocal screaming in their weird music, it was so grating and stress inducing to listen to early in the season -- this was the best I've ever enjoyed them, even including their many steamy/sultry programs -- this was fast and sweeping and powerful and lovely. An excellent showcase for their speed and an emotional performance.

H/B: I knew they would prevail with their excellent FD, and they did. Although I will freely admit I am fast becoming a G/P uber and actually thought pre-competition that there just might be a placement switch between the two teams! The coming years with these two teams should be so much fun to watch. I do find G/P's FD unique and intriguing and wonderfully innovative, as well as beautiful to watch.

C/B: Cool competitors and another FD to love, but it's a program with more of a narrative to tell than is H/D's sweep of power and emotion. As I said, I love it, and their precision and creativity. Performed so well under the pressure of skating last.

 

[CoyoteChris]

This is completely meaningless other than being fun. Here are the results of Junior Ice dance, 2007, Spokane Nationals.

 

[Seven Sisters]

Not always been true, the ladies 2014 Pewter medalist went to the Olympics instead of the bronze medalist.

Every one of the pewter medalists at this comp so far has been awesome. I was so taken with Gabriella Izzo in ladies—her LP was my favorite performance at that event. Love Chan & Howe in pairs; I think their SP is the best US pairs program this season.

And Green & Parsons speak for themselves. Love their RD, and their free is one of the best I’ve ever seen in many, many years of watching ice dance, just stunning!

 

[Wafflecakes]

I'm usually in agreement with you. I favor a trials-type Nationals... but in this case, with people getting COVID at the actual event and being forced to withdraw, I can understand.

So far, the skaters have risen to their expected placement and made the selection easy, but that's not always the case. And we still have the men to go, and one thing is clear from today - these guys came prepared to compete. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Oh I 100% agree for this year with covid.

My rant is more general than that though.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Unfortunately, the only way to make Nationals' results more significant is to diminish our view of figure skating as an international sport. In the olden days, being national champion weas a goasl to be sought for its own sake -- I am the best in America! Fans in the U.S. did not care much about Wrlds (much less 4 Continents and the Grand Prix). The world championship was not even broadcast on major television and ended up as a tag-on snippet in the sports newsreel.

I agree with your post -- it would be nice if the skating establishment could find some ground in the middle.

Not only that I think on some level it hurts our Olympic chances.

Back when that nationals had actual tension and pressure you got to see which skaters could handle that pressure... and by extension see how they would handle the even higher pressure of the Olympics. If you are going to crumple under nationals pressure what are you chances on the big stage?

Now I don't feel I know any better today how people will skate at the Olympics than I did a week ago.

 

[CoyoteChris]

I was in the arena and as usual I don't understand ice dance scoring. I thought HB were clearly the best and to me they got the best audience reaction also. But I knew that the most they could hope for was third unless H D and CB withdrew prior to skating. I don't understand what keeps HB with a perpetual ceiling of third. I also didn't understand CP's terrible score. They seemed enjoyable and had no glaring errors. I think they are like HB and just aren't judges favorites and who knows how to change that. I would love to see Anthony partner with Lorraine in my dream world.

One nationals years ago, I was listening to an ice dance technical specialist on a earbug radio reciever they used to hand out. He was explaining what the technical panel was looking for and that there was so much work to do , they dibbied up the workload...then in real time over the next dance he commented on how the scoring was done. I threw up my hands, pulled out the bug, and just enjoyed the dances....

 

[Wafflecakes]

I was in the arena and as usual I don't understand ice dance scoring. I thought HB were clearly the best and to me they got the best audience reaction also. But I knew that the most they could hope for was third unless H D and CB withdrew prior to skating. I don't understand what keeps HB with a perpetual ceiling of third. I also didn't understand CP's terrible score. They seemed enjoyable and had no glaring errors. I think they are like HB and just aren't judges favorites and who knows how to change that. I would love to see Anthony partner with Lorraine in my dream world.

Yeah I think this is why Ice Dance is never going to be popular.

The mistakes are mostly invisible, and rarely does how hard an element looks actually correlate with its point value.

 

[moonvine]

I was in the arena and as usual I don't understand ice dance scoring. I thought HB were clearly the best and to me they got the best audience reaction also. But I knew that the most they could hope for was third unless H D and CB withdrew prior to skating. I don't understand what keeps HB with a perpetual ceiling of third. I also didn't understand CP's terrible score. They seemed enjoyable and had no glaring errors. I think they are like HB and just aren't judges favorites and who knows how to change that. I would love to see Anthony partner with Lorraine in my dream world.

Ice dance is pretty close to predetermined and everyone has to wait their turn. Do I think that's ridiculous, why yes I do. I mean I called 1-4. Didn't really care about 4-8 as much. Next season H/D are retired and everyone moves up a spot, though I see H/B and G/P maybe flip flopping like C/B and H/D have been. You should have seen it last year. H/B were robbed, even Flutzes and Waxels said so.

 

[moonvine]

One nationals years ago, I was listening to an ice dance technical specialist on a earbug radio reciever they used to hand out. He was explaining what the technical panel was looking for and that there was so much work to do , they dibbied up the workload...then in real time over the next dance he commented on how the scoring was done. I threw up my hands, pulled out the bug, and just enjoyed the dances....

I LOVED Skate Radio. I want it back.

 

[moonvine]

Not only that I think on some level it hurts our Olympic chances.

Back when that nationals had actual tension and pressure you got to see which skaters could handle that pressure... and by extension see how they would handle the even higher pressure of the Olympics. If you are going to crumple under nationals pressure what are you chances on the big stage?

Now I don't feel I know any better today how people will skate at the Olympics than I did a week ago.

Are you going to leave the best American lady at home because she happened to get Covid? Or the best pair team?

 

[Wafflecakes]

Ice dance is pretty close to predetermined and everyone has to wait their turn. Do I think that's ridiculous, why yes I do. I mean I called 1-4. Didn't really care about 4-8 as much. Next season H/D are retired and everyone moves up a spot, though I see H/B and G/P maybe flip flopping like C/B and H/D have been. You should have seen it last year. H/B were robbed, even Flutzes and Waxels said so.

Yeah I agree. There is 0 drama to ice dance as visible mistakes are so rare..... meaning the judges can do what they want.

That said, looking back at all the Olympics since the IJS was implemented I pretty much agree with all of the Olympic medalists.

Should H/B have higher scores? Yeah, probably. Doesn't really matter though as they aren't as good as the top two teams so the gap has no practical impact.