US Olympic Team Announced

[yume]

Adam taught everyone how to get on that Olympic Team.
But to not let Ilia compete in the individual event would be downright insane. I guess there are talks in the background. If he shows, that he can do what he's done half of the time, he will skate. Jason will do the team event. I'm willing to bet on that.

Not that i care about team medals but US brands care. Some get big opportunities (the money ) for this. Jason already has his team medal. I would like them to let Vincent skate.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

I´m happy Ilia got the Worlds spot at least, I think that is the correct decision. Now he has a lot of time to prepare and shine, I´m sure he can get his minimums at Challenge Cup or something. A score and a placement like that can´t we overlooked, but they couldn´t send him to Olympics either because of how the selection is designed. Also I didn´t want Jason to be left out from Olympics so I´m ok with the result. Now they get one big competitions each - Jason maybe his last Olympics and Ilia his first World. Ilia might even end up winning Worlds if big names like Yuzu and Nathan and Shoma skip Worlds after Olympics, so the Worlds placement may be better for him because he will probably be at the next Olympics.

All though, if we are being totally honest the way they make the Olympic selection is designed to leave new and upcoming skaters like Ilia out of the team. Jason placement and GP and all can´t be overlooked, but since Ilia had hist first year as senior and no GP there really was no way he could really be compared to Jason - all Jason had to do was place within top 5 at Nationals given his GP results.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

Wow!

Question can you do a quad-quad combo? I assume you can?

I still remember Yuzu's 4T-3A, which was technically a sequence so lost base value, which I thought was BS, because seriously.

I have been wondering about the same thing and I need to know, and wonder why it´s not mention more often. Because I would think someone would perhaps have tried it already, being the first to land a quad quad combo. You know, since you cant do a 3 - 3 - 3 combo it wouldn´t surprise me if you can´t do a quad quad either!

 

[Tulips]

Just curious if those of you who say Olympic selection should be based on order or finish would feel the same way if Nathan Chen had a disastrous performance and finished out of the top 3?

It seems to me before this week, Jason was always considered a likely bet for the third spot. One great skate changes that? What about one disastrous skate? Should that change it?

 

[Blades of Passion]

In his Olympic quad prior to 2014, Takahashi was Worlds gold and silver medalists, 4CC gold and silver medalists and GPF gold and silver medalists. Not to mention he was a current Olympic bronze medalists. And he was less than 5 points away from the bronze medal at that Olympics. So, unlike Jason, you can't define a reason to send Daisuke at Olympics only as a perennial fav. He had much better international results in his Oly quad

Yeah, the comparison is totally flawed, trying to say Jason = Takahashi. Takahashi absolutely had better medal potential and wasn't named to the Olympic team over someone who skated clean with 6 quads at their Nationals.

What's happening here is more like if USFS had left out Polina Edmunds in 2014 for Mirai Nagasu, but it's worse than that, because what Ilia did at Nationals is like if a Julia Lipnitskaia level talent had suddenly popped up. Snubbing the incredibly high level of competitiveness that Ilia put on display is so foolish.

Or another comparison, this result would be like if Vincent Zhou had skated the best he possibly could at 2018 nationals, and yet still leaving him off the team for Adam Rippon.

 

[onyxrose81]

Jason Brown and Mariah Bell can draw mainstream US audience to watch Olympics. We know that. NBC certainly knows that. Both Jason and Mariah scores are very inflated at Nats and I'm not surprised. Ilia Malinin is relatively unknown to the casual figure skating fans. I'm sure politics and sponsors always play some roles in US Olympics team selection. If Jason Brown and Mariah Bell perform well in Olympics, they can get on other TV Shows such as Dancing with the stars. $$$ talks.

Here is an article which explains why Ashley was selected for 2014 team. Ashley was very popular before Gracie Gold's era.

The Real Skating Winner Isn't Ashley Wagner, It's Her Sponsors

Former two-time defending U.S. Champion Ashley Wagner is absolutely thrilled with the United States Figure Skating federation and their controversial decision to send her instead of Mirai Nagasu to the Olympics. You know who's more thrilled? Her sponsors.

www.theatlantic.com

"Bottom line: there's really no point in winning a US Women's Figure Skating national championship other than bragging rights. Further evidence that the national championship doesn't matter: two sources told USA Today that Wagner was making the team, "even if she's 10th."

"NBC lost one of its U.S. Olympic stars when Lindsey Vonn opted out of the Olympics earlier this month ... The TV network, who currently holds U.S. broadcasting rights to the Olympics, was not about to let their other Olympic hopeful, Ashley Wagner slip by either. "

The general audience has no idea who Mariah Bell is. Jason, maybe if you’re a casual watcher.

As regards to the team, it is what it is.

 

[surimi]

Just curious if those of you who say Olympic selection should be based on order or finish would feel the same way if Nathan Chen had a disastrous performance and finished out of the top 3?

It seems to me before this week, Jason was always considered a likely bet for the third spot. One great skate changes that? What about one disastrous skate? Should that change it?

Good point here IMO. I can't be sure, but I think if Malinin had been hitting 250+ and 260+ this season consistently, he'd get sent to OG. JMO, but consistency talks, and I'll probably get roasted here for this, but I wasn't blown away by him while watching JGP. Great talent for the future, he's just shown his full potential. But I have no issues with USFSA OG pick.

 

[Lzbee]

Feels like to me it was a very big strategic mistake to have Malinin do juniors this season. The criteria was always "show that you can score well internationally then podium at nationals".

It was a big risk to have only one senior challenger to make a case for himself and he made enough mistakes that he didn't even get the worlds tech minimums. That's a skate that should've gotten it off his system earlier in the season. If his team were not going to seriously go for the Olympic spot then they must have known this could/would happen.

You have to rely on the veterans having a bad season to do a Polina and unfortunately both Jason and Vincent have delivered results this season.

 

[macy]

But, previously they hadn't clearly written down their selection criteria in black and white and made it available for everyone to read. The skaters knew the criteria, the fans knew the selection criteria. That criteria made Nathan and Vincent locks. It made Jason almost a lock because the most important selection criteria were Worlds, GP final, and Nationals. He was clearly ahead in two out of those three things. I believe in following the rules you set down. Failing to do so is wrong.

this is exactly what is confusing to me about all of this- the selection criteria has been out there. it's not something USFSA decided to come out with after nationals placements to justify the team they wanted. this was there all along. why do people expect them to not follow their own rules and criteria, or that they cheated someone out of a spot?

i see all sides for Zhou, Brown and Malinin. there is reason to take each one of them and no matter who was left off the internet would have burned down. but people are acting like USFSA failed to follow their own selection criteria.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Feels like to me it was a very big strategic mistake to have Malinin do juniors this season. The criteria was always "show that you can score well internationally then podium at nationals".

This wasn't the first time of the season that Malinin delivered. Like hello - https://youtu.be/89PiFukvQE8

Malinin posted a higher score before Nationals than Jason did all season long. And then Malinin went and further improved on that at Nationals.

 

[lariko]

Just curious if those of you who say Olympic selection should be based on order or finish would feel the same way if Nathan Chen had a disastrous performance and finished out of the top 3?

It seems to me before this week, Jason was always considered a likely bet for the third spot. One great skate changes that? What about one disastrous skate? Should that change it?

When the performance is this exceptional vs the other guy always delivering the same, and nothing out of the ordinary, yes, one performance like that deserves recognition. Like, we just watched 3 nationals in a row, and Malinin was close to au par with two men who had been fighting over the crown for the last 5 or so years. Ilia Malinin had just delivered 2 programs that scored in top 3 of the inflated national scores and made not a single error, landing 6 clean quads. It is not just great skates. It’s off the charts.

 

[readernick]

this is exactly what is confusing to me about all of this- the selection criteria has been out there. it's not something USFSA decided to come out with after nationals placements to justify the team they wanted. this was there all along. why do people expect them to not follow their own rules and criteria, or that they cheated someone out of a spot?

i see all sides for Zhou, Brown and Malinin. there is reason to take each one of them and no matter who was left off the internet would have burned down. but people are acting like USFSA failed to follow their own selection criteria.

People like to complain. I like to complain also, on occasion Some people only value quads in skating and clearly, Ilya is the poster boy for this type of skating. Jason is on the opposite side of the coin. These two sides have been at war for years This decision was, thus, going to be super controversial either way it went. Also, I don't think most people actually read the selection criteria so they only know that both Jason and Ilya were in Group 3. However, if you read the selection criteria in more detail it is clear the selection committee had to send Jason, or they would have been going against the criteria they created. In the criteria, Nationals was basically going to work as a tie-breaker for other BOW. I agree with the decision because I believe in following rules that you set out. Not following rules isn't fair.

On Jason vs Ilya, I am conflicted. Jason is 100 times the skater Ilya is. However, Ilya is 100 times the jumper Jason is. Jason has been a great reliable skater for the US and has helped them gain and retain spots at Worlds many times. Ilya is a young skater with a ton of potential. Both of these skaters are valuable and worthy of selection. There is no right decision. There is no wrong decision. Either way, people who deserve better will be disappointed.

 

[TontoK]

Just curious if those of you who say Olympic selection should be based on order or finish would feel the same way if Nathan Chen had a disastrous performance and finished out of the top 3?

It seems to me before this week, Jason was always considered a likely bet for the third spot. One great skate changes that? What about one disastrous skate? Should that change it?

Yes. Yes, I would. I've been very consistent on that point, although I concede that in a case where skaters are getting COVID at the actual event... I have no objections to K/F and Alysa being named,

There are many instances (in other sports) where world champions have failed to make an Olympic Team because they did not perform well under pressure at trials. That's sad, but there are also many instances of athletes rounding into form at just the precise moment in a trial, and taking that momentum forward to Olympic gold.

 

[katymay]

Ilia has some big tricks he left out for Nationals, but intended to use for the Olympics. The quad quad combo for one. (How many points is a quad quad combo? I don't know). My opinion is Ilia should have been named to the Olympic team. Period. I think the GOE for his jumps should be higher than Nathan's jump GOE at this point. Jason of course is a crowd favorite and a lovely skater, but it is easier to do a lovely program when you are not attempting multiple quads. Much depends on the sport/vs./art consideration. But if it really is a sport, leaving Ilia out makes no sense.

 

[macy]

Another thing to consider is that Ilia had the opportunity to set up a Senior body of work. He and his team could have chosen to nominate as a Senior this year - he might have got the Skate America host pick, he could have done multiple CS events and built scores and results and been able to bring that argument to the table. Ilia and his team chose to stay Junior, and they chose to do that knowing what it meant for the selection criteria.

A lot of people are talking about messages. I personally think it's a very bad message to tell a skater who has spent the last four years being your second-most consistent skater, producing consistent results, with the second-highest World Ranking/Standing, winning medals on the Grand Prix, at ISU Championship events, and doing exactly the job required in helping to retain spots or earn them for the Olympics, who has faithfully and meticulously fulfilled every criteria on the list, that you are suddenly going to disregard them because a new kid suddenly came good once.

As I said. I like Ilia. I think he's got all the makings of a megastar. But right now I have no proof in front of me that he can repeat anything like what he just did ever again. He had a good first JGP. He mucked up the second and mucked up his CS event. He's not there yet.

10000% this. this was a risk he and his team chose to take this season knowing what was on the line.

 

[Lzbee]

This wasn't the first time of the season that Malinin delivered. Like hello - https://youtu.be/89PiFukvQE8

Malinin posted a higher score before Nationals than Jason did all season long. And then Malinin went and further improved on that at Nationals.

And that's great, he shows a lot of promise, but it's not an international competition.

 

[Mista Ekko]

This was a very clear cut logical decision for the USFS
And they pretty much decided to make the wrong choice

Going with Jason was purely sentimental

 

[Baron Vladimir]

People like to complain. I like to complain also, on occasion Some people only value quads in skating and clearly, Ilya is the poster boy for this type of skating. Jason is on the opposite side of the coin. These two sides have been at war for years

Well, if people want to see it or make it that way, it's on them. It's just one of the way to stay behind the skaters they like, or behind their subjective ideas and values. Objectively, it is not about quads vs artistry at all. It's about 1) one's skater overall result (made of the two measures - average and potential) vs other skater's overall result (made of his own average and potential), 2) comparison between them in one exact event, 3) physical and psychological readiness at one projected point of time etc etc... I guess in some situations money/sponsors, promotion of the groups skater is involved in (as training camp or skaters private life), profits he can bring to the ones who are deciding and other factors not connected with the definition of the sport itself are very much involved too.

 

[lesnar001]

Ilia has some big tricks he left out for Nationals, but intended to use for the Olympics. The quad quad combo for one. (How many points is a quad quad combo? I don't know). My opinion is Ilia should have been named to the Olympic team. Period. I think the GOE for his jumps should be higher than Nathan's jump GOE at this point. Jason of course is a crowd favorite and a lovely skater, but it is easier to do a lovely program when you are not attempting multiple quads. Much depends on the sport/vs./art consideration. But if it really is a sport, leaving Ilia out makes no sense.

Well then, I wish he had done his 4-4 combo here at US Nationals. That would have added a big exclamation point to what he did here in Nashville.

Maybe they still wouldn't have named him to the team, but I think it would be a stronger argument than "if you send me to the Olympics, I will do it there".
I do hope that they send Ilya to the World Championships for sure. His jumping ability is really first rate.

Just my opinion.

(I'm guessing that a 4-4 score would be the sum of the 2 jumps?)

 

[cake]

I see the annual Ross Miner discussion has a good chance to be replaced by the annual Jason vs Ilia discussion
My perspective from Germany: The US is incredibly lucky to have four such skaters to discuss about.