US Olympic Team Announced

[TontoK]

The decision was fair and square from an administrative point of view -- they followed the rules they had laid down, no doubt about that (best wishes to the team!) But I am incredibly sad that it is a skater like Ilia who has to bear the brunt because IMO his skating is so much more than historic jumping abilities. I rarely watch men's skating except at the Olympics, and this is my first time seeing Ilia, and I have a feeling I will follow him through his career hopefully to see him winning an Olympic Gold Medal.

His growth has been enormous over the past year or so. I'm very pleased with his progress.

I once had to shield my eyes at his spins. They were not good at all. LIke L2 with negative GOE.

 

[EyesOfLove]

Yeah, the last spin traveled like a twizzle but maybe I was too riveted because even that looked kinda cool to my eyes

 

[kmw227]

I once had to shield my eyes at his spins. They were not good at all. LIke L2 with negative GOE.

Wait, really? I thought Ilia's spins were great. I haven't looked at protocols closely so I don't know what the levels looked like but they all had good speed and centering (besides that last scratch spin in the free) and he hits pretty good positions. For me he was one of the better spinners in the event.

 

[TontoK]

Yeah, the last spin traveled like a twizzle but maybe I was too riveted because even that looked kinda cool to my eyes

Oh, I'm talking about his spins from a year ago or so. Look up his spins from when he was at the COVID Skate America where domestic skaters performed.

*Edit: What I'm trying to say is he has REALLY improved this aspect of his skating.

 

[kmw227]

Oh, I'm talking about his spins from a year ago or so. Look up his spins from when he was at the COVID Skate America where domestic skaters performed.

*Edit: What I'm trying to say is he has REALLY improved this aspect of his skating.

Ah that makes a lot more sense Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Tavi...]

Yes, Takahashi had better accolades. The point I was making is that Takahashi did not deliver at pre-Sochi Nationals and yet he got placed on the National team because of his prowess, as well as an NHK gold that season. It was enough to go to the Olympics over Oda who was 3rd at the GPF and wasn't exactly un-decorated himself. Kozuka got a silver in 2011 and had a GP bronze from CoC that season, but it wasn't enough, nor beating Takahashi by 12 points at Nationals evidently. To me being an Olympic bronze medalist from 4 years prior isn't a reason to be selected for a team, and I don't want skaters to rest on their laurels.

Sentimentally, it was nice to have Daisuke go to Sochi but it was all pageantry really. The only reason Takahashi was 6th and so close to a bronze medal in Sochi was because the field was very weak. If Brown had replicated his quadless Nationals performances, even he could have won the bronze in Sochi. Takahashi placed so high because he got his usual high PCS (and didn't fall) - note that he had only the 12th best TES in the SP, and 13th best TES in the FS. I suspect Jason will have similar issues in 2022, except this time it will be harder with the field having way more quads/medal threats compared to 2014. Only if the guys have Sochi-esque meltdowns will Jason stand a chance at cracking the top 6. Because the SP has fewer elements, Jason might make final flight, but in the FS if the other guys skate their usual, he'll lose ground in the FS with his technical disparity.

Only time will tell, but I actually think Jason has a decent chance of making the top 6. Because he’s been recovering from injury, this is the first competition this season where he’s been anywhere close to his 4CC 2020 form. Quad or no quad, I’m pretty sure that international judges would have scored his Nats programs pretty close to what he scored at 4CC - ie, 270+. That would put him in the top 5 of season’s best scores.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Only time will tell, but I actually think Jason has a decent chance of making the top 6. Because he’s been recovering from injury, this is the first competition this season where he’s been anywhere close to his 4CC 2020 form. Quad or no quad, I’m pretty sure that international judges would have scored his Nats programs pretty close to what he scored at 4CC - ie, 270+. That would put him in the top 5 of season’s best scores.

If the other guys skate as well as they can, then Jason would need to go lights out and sufficiently rotate his quad at the very least to place top 6. He could post a 95-100 in the SP, and in the FS he is capable of around 180ish. His PB score of 275 would definitely be top 6 material (would have been 5th at 2021 Worlds). But it's a very tall ask to replicate, given he hasn't cleared 265 this season yet internationally. Hanyu will be there too so Jason would be 6th as far as on paper SB scores go if he skated a PB. He might be boxed out by Chen/Zhou/Uno/Kagiyama/Hanyu/Kolyada though.

Part of me thinks though that Brown will play it safe and not go for any quads in either program, which could still place him in the final flight/top 6 overall if others mess up.

 

[soccerjc77]

Taking Jason instead of Ilia is a scandal !

It's like if in 2018, the great Mirai Nagasu with superior element triple axel who finish 2nd would have been put out the team for Ashley Wagner a sentimental favorite who has finish 4th, it would have made no sense.

So to me this is exactly what the USFS have did here, they put out Ilia who did superior element like 6 amazing quad in this competition for a sentimental favorite Jason Brown who finish 4th place.

This is a garbage decision !

 

[lariko]

If the other guys skate as well as they can, then Jason would need to go lights out and sufficiently rotate his quad at the very least to place top 6. He could post a 95-100 in the SP, and in the FS he is capable of around 180ish. His PB score of 275 would definitely be top 6 material (would have been 5th at 2021 Worlds). But it's a very tall ask to replicate, given he hasn't cleared 265 this season yet internationally. Hanyu will be there too so Jason would be 6th as far as on paper SB scores go if he skated a PB. He might be boxed out by Chen/Zhou/Uno/Kagiyama/Hanyu/Kolyada though.

Part of me thinks though that Brown will play it safe and not go for any quads in either program, which could still place him in the final flight/top 6 overall if others mess up.

Yes, and to make absolutely sure, I think he should switch 3As to 2As too. This way, nothing will distract the judges from his artistic merits and the world will be born anew.

 

[soccerjc77]

Fortunately they didn't do this to Mirai Nagasu in 2018 because I would have been so frustrated if they would have choose Ashley in 4th place over Mirai who has finish 2nd in 2018.

And, an other exemple sometimes taking a junior skater who finish 2nd is a good idea. Personnaly, when Polina Edmunds make it to the Olympic with her 2nd place, I find that it was a good idea ! Polina did well at Olympic and at World !

And, I think Ilia would have deserve to go to the Olympic and would have been great like Polina Edmunds who have been send for 2nd place at national.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yes, and to make absolutely sure, I think he should switch 3As to 2As too. This way, nothing will distract the judges from his artistic merits and the world will be reborn anew.

Hah let's not go THAT far. He still needs the 3As and they've become much more stable for him. Let's not regress back to the 80s technically speaking, lol.

 

[YuBluByMe]

Of course it is not unexpected and of course it is not a terrible decision (Jason certainly deserved to go too). It is just not quite understandable and logical. After all, I understand those criteria just as a guidelines, not as a strict rules you must follow. How can you compare Ilia's average score with the other seniors, when he couldn't jump quads or even triples he wanted in his short competing as a junior and couldn't perform one more element in his free for the same reason? When he couldn't have the same exposure as Jason in the international scene (he basically had one senior competition in his whole life)? If USFSA literally followed them, then they are just not good in understanding the rules (or better to say normal exceptions of those rules) in basic statistic More logical explanation is when they were able to choose, majority of those who are making the decision just wanted Jason on the team (like they did in Russia with Mozalev vs Semenenko case).

This is my biggest issue with the Fed’s choice. At the beginning of the season, I wrote on here that the Olympic team is on lock-down with a long shot spoiler in Paniot. Because of his lack of international competition, I said that Paniot had to do well in any Challenger, his Grand Prix assignment, and place second at Nationals to make the Olympic team. But even with that he actually wouldn’t have made the team, which is incorrect. Malinin very nearly did what Paniot had to do, but he was practically not eligible from the start because his BOW is small and most of his scores are from junior competitions. Yet that’s not even the reason he wasn’t chosen! Malinin did what he had to do, bronze in Austria be damned. Malinin wasn’t selected because the Fed attempted to put standards in a pretty little box to lock the team up and it backfired, resulting in abandoning common sense. When this happens, that means there’s something wrong with the black-and-white and you need to make adjustments.

To the Fed’s credit, they must have really debated over it because they took an awful long time in announcing the selections. They wanted Malinin on the team. I'll bet my paycheck on it. I don't think the criteria deliberately shuts out certain skaters; it’s just they want to prevent one-time wonders yet didn’t expect an exceptional case like this. And yes, this was an exceptional case in which an exception should have been made. You don’t leave the guy at home that's on an upward trajectory and performed (under pressure) and did something that only 3-4 skaters in the world has done, handily beating the top two American men in a head-to-head in the process. On your first try. Even Kagiyama didn't manage that. He was left at home too, if I recall, despite his bronze at Nationals. JFed named Tanaka to the Worlds team that year.

 

[moonvine]

Karen's selection worked out because it helped the US regain three spots for the Olympics, and she also didn't finish two places and 10+ points behind Amber. Unless Jason wins a medal, it doesn't really matter if he finishes 4th or last in terms of doing anything for the USFSA and the USOC. The same is true for Ilya, but at least it would be a stepping stone to getting the international judges familiar with him and started on that long path to improving his PCS scores. I just really don't understand what the USFSA is doing with this pick.

Jason’s selection works because he can skate in the team event and not torpedo. Vincent has been wildly inconsistent this season and has skated his best when there is no pressure, but USFS were painted into a corner with those criteria and Ilia is a skater who’s skater in 2 Senior competitions and bombed the SP to the extent that he doesn’t have tech minimums for Worlds.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see USFS reassess their criteria. I would be more surprised if they didn’t.

 

[moonvine]

Not that i care about team medals but US brands care. Some get big opportunities (the money ) for this. Jason already has his team medal. I would like them to let Vincent skate.

But why? He’s skated his best this season under no pressure and completely fallen apart when he’s under pressure.

 

[Mathman]

And, truthfully, there might be advantages to both ways of looking at things. I think the reasons for a true trial outweight the advantages of the committee.

I think that the problem is that the National Championship is the National Championship and there is no Olympic Qualifying Competition in figure skating. Some sports have both. In some they are intertwined in various ways, in others they are independent.

Ilia's reward for skating brilliantly in Nashville is that he is the U.S. National silver medalist.

 

[Tavi...]

If the other guys skate as well as they can, then Jason would need to go lights out and sufficiently rotate his quad at the very least to place top 6. He could post a 95-100 in the SP, and in the FS he is capable of around 180ish. His PB score of 275 would definitely be top 6 material (would have been 5th at 2021 Worlds). But it's a very tall ask to replicate, given he hasn't cleared 265 this season yet internationally. Hanyu will be there too so Jason would be 6th as far as on paper SB scores go if he skated a PB. He might be boxed out by Chen/Zhou/Uno/Kagiyama/Hanyu/Kolyada though.

Part of me thinks though that Brown will play it safe and not go for any quads in either program, which could still place him in the final flight/top 6 overall if others mess up.

Yes you’re right he hasn’t been near his PB and it’s possible he won’t be able to deliver it at the Olympics- only time will tell. But…I’m always kind of nonplussed by the idea that he’s gonna be the odd man out bc of course all the guys with quads will peak, skate their best, make no errors, etc. It can happen for sure - I think 2017 Worlds came pretty close? - and I’m sure every guy there will do their best to make sure it does - but it’s not really the rule. And I do have to point out that despite being at less than his best during the GP after a fracture kept him off ice for 2 months last summer, he still beat an awful lot of guys with an awful lot of quads on the way to medaling at every one of his competitions- off the top of my head, Kolyada, Semenenko, Ignatov, Aliev, Rizzo, and Keegan to name a few. So it will be interesting to see what happens.

Yes, and to make absolutely sure, I think he should switch 3As to 2As too. This way, nothing will distract the judges from his artistic merits and the world will be born anew.

Maybe you could try floating a bunch of black “Jason” balloons around your living room and encouraging your cat to pop them.

 

[moonvine]

The Austria cup was Ilia's first ever senior competition where he was able to do quads in the SP---something he could not do on the JGP and therefore had not been training regularly. He struggled in the SP, and placed 13th, but then placed 2nd in the FS and won the bronze medal. Among the skaters he defeated: Mihhail Selevko, Art Levandi, Sena Miyake, Corey Circelli.

If JW 21 had not been cancelled, Ilia would likely have been a medalist, which would have gotten him GP assignments this year, and who knows how he might have done with a series of senior comps under his belt. Certainly his BOW would look completely different.

Ilia played it safe in the JGP in order to make the final. This is 100% a valid, possibly even wise, strategy. His medaling at all was far from assured.

Also, I can present you with an extremely long list of skaters who won JGPF or even Junior Worlds and were never able to repeat that kind of success at the Senior level. There is a reason USFS weights Senior competitions over Junior ones.

 

[lariko]

More logical explanation is when they were able to choose, majority of those who are making the decision just wanted Jason on the team (like they did in Russia with Mozalev vs Semenenko case).

I doubt the Russians would have had a protracted debate if any of their boys, fifteen and older, for the sake of daydreaming, let's say, Yablokov, showed up at the Nationals with 6 quads, zero falls, decent spins and 300 points score. I can't really imagine anyone worrying about anyone's BoW at that point.

Mozalev and Semenenko is an actual tug-of-war that had been going on from 2019 (or maybe earlier, but that's when I had tuned into it) and who knows where this game of chance would even end up.

 

[moonvine]

Ilia's reward for skating brilliantly in Nashville is that he is the U.S. National silver medalist.

He should also be Team B Tier 1 for envelope funding if I’m reading this right. But I don’t see him listed so I’m perplexed.

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/2022-23%20Athlete%20Support%20Funding%20Criteria%20Final.pdf

 

[moonvine]

Maybe you could try floating a bunch of black “Jason” balloons around your living room and encouraging your cat to pop them.