US Olympic Team Announced

[lariko]

Ilia might get to go because of COVID anyway

I might want to see Malinin at the Olympics, but not due to injuries or illness of any other skater. I don't understand how criticism of skating or jumps is somehow worse than implying that hey, someone might get sick, so you will get your wish? Now that would be heartless. I also resent implication that I am fickle! I am very consistent. Nobody gets sick. Everyone skates their best. Selection depends on the resulting score. Young and hopeful get their chance as soon as possible.

 

[MintGreen]

I would like to first of all re-iterate my previous point here, with an additional caveat: Malinin bombed his SP at his one senior competition so badly, he literally does not have the tech minimums for senior worlds. You know who does have the tech minimums for senior worlds? Donovan Carillo! Zhou failed to make the FS at last years worlds. You know who did make the FS? Donovan Carillo! Seriously, I love Donovan and seeing him qualify for Beijing was the only thing that could take away the pain of Fentz not qualifying, but having one US man place below him would be an embarrassment, two of them? It would be an utter humiliation of the US figure skating program, and that is a genuine risk if they send both Zhou and Malinin, so it really needs to be one or the other.

Now, since a lot of people seem to be crying "This wudn't happen in Russia !!1!", I will relieve you all of that delusion - the Russian figure skating federation had absolutely no problem leaving their national champion at home during a home-field Olympics in favour of a "sentimental fave" who had essentially no body of work from the past few season due to being retired and didn't even bother to skate at Euros, also leaving two that-year Euros medalists off of the team for that same fave.

Let's try not to get too emotional. There are so many factual errors or omissions that you left out, whether conveniently or intentionally, I dunno. Let's start with 2014. You failed to mention that their national champion, Kovtun, bombed in Euros and finished the last among the three Russians who were sent to Euros. And the other two who medaled at the Euros ranked 3rd and 4th, respectively in the national, both behind Plushenko.

In 2018, the same year that everybody collectively lost their sh*t over Ross "no body-of-work from the last five years or senior results throughout his whole career" Miner being left off, the Russian figure skating fed also left off their national silver medalist from the team in favour of their bronze medalist, and that was despite said silver medalist being a reigning junior worlds medalist and having medalled at one senior GP event and placing 4th at the other, whilst the bronze medalist had placed sixth and eighth at his. If anybody has a right to whine about getting the so-called Ross Miner Treatment, it's Samarin, and I don't recall anybody being offended on his behalf when he actually got screwed by the fed.

Here we go again. You also failed to mention that Aliev won silver medal at Euros with two near clean programs and was the best ranked Russian skater in the Euros, by beating both Kolyada and Samarin undisputedly. And since you mentioned it, you probably also forgot that Aliev was the reigning junior world silver medalist, compared to Samarin's bronze, and JGPF champion, compared to Samarin's silver, both from the exactly same competitions.

And do you know that RusFed never uses their national alone to decide who go got Olympics and Worlds?

That being said, frankly I am puzzled that why you dragged the Russian selection into the discussion. Not that I always agree what they did or pretend there wasn't strong political forces behind the doors or their selection process is any better than other federations'. I personally prefer a well designed and balanced BOW system, but Russia, US, Japan and other countries all have their own criteria and you're comparing apples and oranges.

Basing your Olympic (or worlds) selection on a single competition is a bad idea - ironically, on the example used above, it was literally one good competition (Euros) that put Aliev on the Olympic team, but let's face it, they were getting him on that team one way or the other, actual results be damned. Ross Miner never repeated those nationals skates since and he had never presented them before hand, and while I wasn't particularly happy with Rippon at the Olympics purely for the reason that I don't care for his skating (and yes, I know Max Aaron took himself out of the equation so I'll deal), sending Miner would have been a mistake and I honestly still think that if he had gone, he would have bombed spectacularly. I mean, at least it would have been something to laugh at, because I'm a bad person an all, but still. Basing selections on a single competition is how you end up sending a one-skate wonder who promptly bombs and humiliates themselves and the country - I'm not saying that's what would happen to Malinin (I honestly think Zhou is the more likely to bomb, and I say that as a Zhou fan), but there is a reason why body of work is taken into consideration.

 

[moonvine]

Man I really wish there was this much interest in the US men in non Olympic years.

 

[TontoK]

I’m so glad I’m not USFS right now. People will never let this go.

Prefacing my response with this: I'm generally more concerned with the process than who is selected, and as you know, I am not a fan of this selection process. I support our team, and our team is Nathan, Vincent, and Jason... and I certainly pray they all compete, because otherwise something really unfortunate will have happened to one of them. I wish all three of them the very best, and I hope they skate lights out - I hope the same for all skaters, American or not. Let there be no doubt about that.

Now, to the point. I support changing the system that led to this selection.

And rarely does a "sit down and shut up" approach foster change in any organization.

So if USFSA is feeling the heat, I'm not sad about that.

 

[karne]

Was Gracie even on the table? If TV ratings are a concern - Send Gracie. I wish real people were on the selection committees.

I wish people who claimed to be skating fans actually paid attention for more than five seconds, but apparently that's too much to ask.

Gracie wasn't going anywhere even if she won because she has no tech minimums and it is too late for her to get them for 4CC and the Olympics. You can whine about that if you want, but that is an ISU rule that she requires them.

Gee, have you even watched Sinnerman, Love is a BItch or I Can't Go on Without You? David Wilson, sure

David Wilson wishes he could choreograph like that.

 

[kan01]

At Jason's best - he is 7th to 10th - Ilia could be a medalist - he should have thrown his 4/4 in the free afterall.

Jason was 7th at World's with a score 12 points lower than his PB and mediocre short and long programs compared to "at his best". Inform yourself well before posting. Oh, and the six skaters who were above him, all had almost perfect skates in the free, including Keegan who usually loses to Jason. Something we don't see often from the men who usually fall and pop like there's no tomorrow with all their quads and potential.

 

[el henry]

Man I really wish there was this much interest in the US men in non Olympic years.

You and me both.

Jumping off, I wouldn't be sad about any "heat" USFS is being subjected to online. I looked at some of the accounts with the most vociferous posts. From a very rough, very uneducated review, a large percentage of them had never ever posted about skating before. None of them had ever posted any knowledge that Ilia even existed before their complaining posts.

Many of them are clearly not American, which is fine, I love to hear from skating fans worldwide, but why would that influence USFS at all? Parrticularly the ones who are not skating fans and didn't know the name of Ilia Malinin two weeks ago.

Some fans are upset, and they have every right to express that they are upset online, but I don't think it will change much. Some fans didn't understand why Jason went to Worlds instead of Vincent. Some fans didn't understand why Adam won Nats over Nathan. Nothing changed selection or voting processes.

The selection process may be right, it may be wrong, but it was followed. IMO, this kind of online noise won't change it.

 

[TontoK]

You and me both.

Jumping off, I wouldn't be sad about any "heat" USFS is being subjected to online. I looked at some of the accounts with the most vociferous posts. From a very rough, very uneducated review, a large percentage of them had never ever posted about skating before. None of them had ever posted any knowledge that Ilia even existed before their complaining posts.

Many of them are clearly not American, which is fine, I love to hear from skating fans worldwide, but why would that influence USFS at all? Parrticularly the ones who are not skating fans and didn't know the name of Ilia Malinin two weeks ago.

Some fans are upset, and they have every right to express that they are upset online, but I don't think it will change much. Some fans didn't understand why Jason went to Worlds instead of Vincent. Some fans didn't understand why Adam won Nats over Nathan. Nothing changed selection or voting processes.

The selection process may be right, it may be wrong, but it was followed. IMO, this kind of online noise won't change it.

I'm not talking about online trolls. How about the coach of the men's and women's champions? Think his words might get consideration?

Here's what Raf had to say about it (Note: This is a Russian to English Google Translate - so there may be some inaccuracies - but you'll get the point).

We are told that this is how the rules are made. So change these rules, revise them. If the silver medalist of the last national championship with three quotas gets into the national team only as a substitute, then you need to find an opportunity to make an exception, whatever, but give the guy the opportunity to compete at the Games in Beijing, especially since with such points he could claim a prize " , - said Harutyunyan.

“I called one of the people in charge of the development of figure skating in America and asked how he would now look this boy and his parents in the eyes? What did this guy do wrong?

In addition, I called Ilya's parents and said that I wanted to apologize to them for what happened on behalf of all American figure skating. I am really ashamed of such a decision ... "

 

[iceskater10]

Yes, the Starr promotion train continues. Why did she get so many opportunities this past season? It is all the same, as long as she is in thees, sport and middling around she will get opportunities. The world rankings is a two edge sword - with alot of opportunities - someone can continue to get points here and there and keep their name higher on the list - when others don't get an opportunity to compete - they can't use that as a portrait. Yes they should stop the world rankings criteria. I just want to award opportunities for up and comers. How about Jill Heiner? Rena Ikenishi? Was Gracie even on the table? If TV ratings are a concern - Send Gracie. I wish real people were on the selection committees.

She has no Lutz??? Starr

 

[karne]

I'm not talking about online trolls. How about the coach of the men's and women's champions? Think his words might get consideration?

Here's what Raf had to say about it (Note: This is a Russian to English Google Translate - so there may be some inaccuracies - but you'll get the point).

We are told that this is how the rules are made. So change these rules, revise them. If the silver medalist of the last national championship with three quotas gets into the national team only as a substitute, then you need to find an opportunity to make an exception, whatever, but give the guy the opportunity to compete at the Games in Beijing, especially since with such points he could claim a prize " , - said Harutyunyan.

“I called one of the people in charge of the development of figure skating in America and asked how he would now look this boy and his parents in the eyes? What did this guy do wrong?

In addition, I called Ilya's parents and said that I wanted to apologize to them for what happened on behalf of all American figure skating. I am really ashamed of such a decision ... "

Bet Raf wasn't ashamed when his fourth placed skater was selected over a silver medallist in 2018.

Or in 2014.

Funny how that works.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

That is not what happened at all.

Maxim Kovtun would have gone to Sochi had he not messed up at Euros that he was off the podium and prior to that screwed up so badly at
Worlds he failed to get the second spot back that Russia really could have used. Kovtun finished 17th at the 2013 Worlds, almost as bad as Vincent at Worlds 2021.

Maxim could skate brilliantly as long as there was no pressure, but at a HOME Olympics as the sole representative in his sport skating in the first ever Team Event? A Team Event where the first event was the Men's SP?

I always find it hilarious when posters claim Plushy just waltzed into Sochi grabbed the Team Medal from the deserving hands of every other Russian men's skater and then waltzed out. Do people honestly believe he "planned" to withdraw from the singles event and set himself up for a life time of hate and abuse from his own country's media (the very media who called him a hero hours earlier) and eternal scorn from the Federation who now scores the skaters he coaches?

Maxim Kovtun should be relieved it wasn't him.

I will agree with you that Sergei Vonorov should have gone, but I'm pretty sure the RusFed didn't even realise he existed. Which certainly isn't Plushy's fault.

Bruh, I wasn't saying that they should have sent Kovtun, though I do actually kind of agree with you that Voronov would have been a better choice than Plushy, specifically because he had recent body-of-work and has always been reasonably consistent for the modern men's field, but honestly I have no horse in this particular race. I was trying to make a point that the "Russia would definitely have sent Malinin and dropped Brown" is not true in the slightest - the Russian figure skating fed have historically factored in body-of-work when assigning spots, as well as all of their own weird internal politics, and I guarantee you if the fields were reversed and Brown were skating (and winning Euros medals) for Russia the narrative regarding quads from the Russian fed would be different, and let's just be frank here, if they were skating for Russia, Zhou would never have been sent to Neblehorn to reclaim the third spot he effectively lost at worlds to begin with - he'd have been dropped like a hot potato for that. Heck, we have literally just seen RusFed name Semenenko to the Euros team over Mozalev, and, controversial opinion, while I'm heartbroken for Mozalev I actually don't disagree with the choice - sending one nice, reliable workhorse and one guy who could bomb spectacularly is far preferable to sending two guys who could bomb spectacularly.

 

[el henry]

I'm not talking about online trolls. How about the coach of the men's and women's champions? Think his words might get consideration?

Here's what Raf had to say about it (Note: This is a Russian to English Google Translate - so there may be some inaccuracies - but you'll get the point).

We are told that this is how the rules are made. So change these rules, revise them. If the silver medalist of the last national championship with three quotas gets into the national team only as a substitute, then you need to find an opportunity to make an exception, whatever, but give the guy the opportunity to compete at the Games in Beijing, especially since with such points he could claim a prize " , - said Harutyunyan.

“I called one of the people in charge of the development of figure skating in America and asked how he would now look this boy and his parents in the eyes? What did this guy do wrong?

In addition, I called Ilya's parents and said that I wanted to apologize to them for what happened on behalf of all American figure skating. I am really ashamed of such a decision ... "

Thanks for the quote, but I need to say, not really. My opinion of Raf has never been the highest, and this confirms my earlier perceptions.

Yes, change the rules next year if you think that's necessary, but this year???? What does that say to al the skaters who played by those rules? And then saying that you *apologized* to the parents. Who knew darn well what the rules were before the start of the season?

I don't respect anyone who says they would disrespect all skaters by bending the rules for one. And I don't think Raf's words are the way to change USFS's approach, by winning friends and influencing people

It reminds me of the time Raf disrespected Rohene Ward by saying I can't believe they gave an award to, you know, Jason Brown's choreographer. (pretending he didn't know Rohene's name or maybe he didn't). Sometimes he should just not answer Russia Today's calls

 

[TontoK]

Thanks for the quote, but I need to say, not really. My opinion of Raf has never been the highest, and this confirms my earlier perceptions.

Yes, change the rules next year if you think that's necessary, but this year???? What does that say to al the skaters who played by those rules? And then saying that you *apologized* to the parents. Who knew darn well what the rules were before the start of the season?

I don't respect anyone who says they would disrespect all skaters by bending the rules for one. And I don't think Raf's words are the way to change USFS's approach, by winning friends and influencing people

It reminds me of the time Raf disrespected Rohene Ward by saying I can't believe they gave an award to, you know, Jason Brown's choreographer. (pretending he didn't know Rohene's name or maybe he didn't). Sometimes he should just not answer Russia Today's calls

I'm not asking you to like Raf. But I don't think you can imply that he has no influence in the sport, especially in America.

In terms of effecting future change, this is a very strong signal, perhaps one that USFSA can't just ignore. Certainly, you can't equate his opinions of the selection process with the yammering of online trolls.

 

[soccerjc77]

I'm not talking about online trolls. How about the coach of the men's and women's champions? Think his words might get consideration?

Here's what Raf had to say about it (Note: This is a Russian to English Google Translate - so there may be some inaccuracies - but you'll get the point).

We are told that this is how the rules are made. So change these rules, revise them. If the silver medalist of the last national championship with three quotas gets into the national team only as a substitute, then you need to find an opportunity to make an exception, whatever, but give the guy the opportunity to compete at the Games in Beijing, especially since with such points he could claim a prize " , - said Harutyunyan.

“I called one of the people in charge of the development of figure skating in America and asked how he would now look this boy and his parents in the eyes? What did this guy do wrong?

In addition, I called Ilya's parents and said that I wanted to apologize to them for what happened on behalf of all American figure skating. I am really ashamed of such a decision ... "

I completely agree with all of Raf has said ! I'm very sad to see a guy's who show a video of quad/quad combo to sit at home https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nQfDge79Xc

 

[JustSomeGuy]

And do you know that RusFed never uses their national alone to decide who go got Olympics and Worlds?

This was literally my entire point - THAT RUSFED USE OTHER FACTORS BESIDES NATIONALS ALONE TO DECIDE WHO GETS SPOTS. And the reason why I brought them up, as I said in my post, is because others in this thread we insisting that Malinin should skate for Russia because they would never leave a nats silver medalist off of the Olympic team.

I 'left out information' on the post because the basic point - that any medal at RusNats DOES NOT guarantee an Olympic spot - remained unchanged, and because the 'how dare they send Brown' narrative (and the 'Ross Miner Treatment' narrative for that matter) has left out just as much information - Brown hasn't been outside of the top 10 at worlds this quad, Malinin has been consistent this season but this is a new development and his past seasons were far less consistent and he's definitely still capable of bombing, Zhou literally bombed so badly at the last worlds that they almost lost the third spot completely (and seriously, I say this as a Zhou fan) and Brown is the one who had to save it alongside Chen, and realistically there were only ever two spots open on the podium so a sweep was never on the cards to begin with.

 

[el henry]

I'm not asking you to like Raf. But I don't think you can imply that he has no influence in the sport, especially in America.

In terms of effecting future change, this is a very strong signal, perhaps one that USFSA can't just ignore. Certainly, you can't equate his opinions of the selection process with the yammering of online trolls.

You are right, he certainly will, or should, have more influence than online trolls. If he really thinks the rules should be changed, he should work for that.

As @karne correctly pointed out, he did not complain about the rules when they benefited his skater. I think USFS might take that into account, but who knows. Certainly not me

 

[Blades of Passion]

Jason’s selection works because he can skate in the team event and not torpedo.

This makes no sense at all; Jason skating the team event would be ridiculous. He has basically no chance of winning the LP, which is what U.S. needs, and he could finish dead last in that segment. Nathan should be skating both segments, but if USFS decides to massively hurt the entire team's chance of victory, then Vincent at least has a higher chance than Jason of winning.

 

[lariko]

Heck, we have literally just seen RusFed name Semenenko to the Euros team over Mozalev, and, controversial opinion, while I'm heartbroken for Mozalev I actually don't disagree with the choice - sending one nice, reliable workhorse and one guy who could bomb spectacularly is far preferable to sending two guys who could bomb spectacularly.

They did, anyway, sent two guys who could bomb spectacularly, and that’s before Mozalev was honoured.

 

[lariko]

This makes no sense at all; Jason skating the team event would be ridiculous. He has basically no chance of winning the LP, which is what U.S. needs, and he could finish dead last in that segment. Nathan should be skating both segments, but if USFS decides to massively hurt the entire team's chance of victory, then Vincent at least has a higher chance than Jason of winning.

Vincent’s SP is magic.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

This makes no sense at all; Jason skating the team event would be ridiculous. He has basically no chance of winning the LP, which is what U.S. needs, and he could finish dead last in that segment. Nathan should be skating both segments, but if USFS decides to massively hurt the entire team's chance of victory, then Vincent at least has a higher chance than Jason of winning.

He could absolutely win the SP, though, which is where people are saying he's needed - if either Chen or Zhou will bomb a program, it'll be the short.

Having Chen skate both segments when the Men's FP is all of two days before the individual SP is a bad idea, and would honestly just amount to handing Hanyu a third gold medal.