- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
Come oooon, you can't just throw a puzzle like that and give us so very few clues! So, this year's JGP, quadless, no 3A. Did he have exceptional artistic arms? It couldn't have been Lucas Broussard because he has 3A?
US Olympic Team Announced
- Thread starter Minz
- Start date
Noooo i don't remember a 3A. His layout was light with things like usuals 3-3s or 2A-3T.
His shirt in the free was purple. Very cute little face. I wouldn't call them exceptional yet, but yes he has artistic arms.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
Purple shirt? Fedor Zonov?
Yes, him!
So he's Russian. Well, too bad.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
Yay! I guessed on the second try! He has the same coach as Kolyada used to have.
Poor kid. His coach produces interesting skaters with good basics but the jump consistency isn't there (Konstantinova, Kolyada).
Andrei Kutovoi (aka the kid who performs as if he was in broadway) and him won't go far if the big jumps doesn't come.
Switching to USA is an option though.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Vincent's actually the safer choice for the SP than Jason.
This season from the start of the season to most recent, Zhou has scored 97.35/97.43/99.51.
This season from the start of the season to most recent, Brown has scored 92.39/94.00/89.39.
You say Brown can "easily rack up a mid-90's score". Well the season's results show otherwise.
The main differentiator of course is that Vincent goes for 2 quads to Jason's none. If Vincent does his usual SP, he has greater scoring potential and this greater potential to win or come 2nd in the SP. And before you say it - no, except for certain "fans" of Zhou, nobody cares about 2021 Worlds at this point. It's a new season and Zhou is 4/4 when it comes to short programs.
You say Brown is consistent - well, he consistently hasn't had a successful 3A (with +GOE) in any of his international shorts this season. He had a step out on his 3A at Finlandia, a q on his 3A at Skate Canada, and hand down on his 3A at IdF.
Jason would be 'fine' for the FS where there are only 5 entries, and his PCS advantage will be doubled, so even if he has tech issues he could still beat Messing, the #5 country's entry, and maybe an off-form Kolyada. Even still, Zhou has overall better international results in the FS (186.88, 198.13, 161.18) than Jason (170.13, 165.55, 174.81) by a long shot and has the best international FS score this season other than Chen.
But it won't really matter, as Chen will most likely do one of the segments... probably the SP. And the FS should go to Zhou.
Objectively speaking (i.e. removing one's emotional attachment for Brown or dislike for Zhou from the equation - not that anyone has any!
), Zhou is a better choice for either segment than Brown. Brown is already fortunate that he was selected for the team over Malinin, and is also fortunate to already have an Olympic medal (for a bit underwhelming 4th place/153.67 points team freeskate, mind you - where any skater with a score over 122 in the FS would have received the same result... also worth noting that Jason did even worse in the individual after his team FS, so if we want him to do his best in Beijing maybe it's better that he not do the team).The 2022 team spots should go to Chen and Zhou.
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
He can do shows. As wonderful as his skating is, it's not as if he's winning these competitions that are more focused on athletics.
But this is where the PCS comes into play as I stated in the previous post.
For some reason technical difficulty and PCS are way too correlated in women's singles. Men's singles seems to be a completely different story.
Also a federation that prioritizes winning over holding up favorites. The Russian federation gets their young ladies out their quickly and fast.
They have a conveyor belt.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
For all his prodigious gifts, Ilia wouldn’t win Jack Squat at the individual event at these Olympics, so if “winning” were the reason, there’d be no reason to send him.
Jason’s expertise in skating skills, blade mastery, spins require superior athleticism. He routinely makes the international podium ahead of quadsters by maximizing those athletic gifts,
So yes, he should do shows. And comps.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
Based on how inconsistent most of the men (excepting Nathan and Yuzuru Hanyu) have been with quads, I think Ilya would have an outside shot at a Bronze medal if he skated as well as he did at US Nationals.
But that's just "speculation" and it would depend on a lot of things happening beyond his control. Personally, I think the correct team was chosen for the Olympics. However, it will be interesting to see how he does at Worlds, where most likely there will be some notable absences because it is an Olympic year. He'll still have the same hurdles to face, but there will be less of them and it wouldn't surprise me too much if he got a medal there.
But that's just "speculation" and it would depend on a lot of things happening beyond his control. Personally, I think the correct team was chosen for the Olympics. However, it will be interesting to see how he does at Worlds, where most likely there will be some notable absences because it is an Olympic year. He'll still have the same hurdles to face, but there will be less of them and it wouldn't surprise me too much if he got a medal there.
Taking Ilia is an investment for the future and if both skate their best Ilia is going to beat him.For all his prodigious gifts, Ilia wouldn’t win Jack Squat at the individual event at these Olympics, so if “winning” were the reason, there’d be no reason to send him.
Jason’s expertise in skating skills, blade mastery, spins require superior athleticism. He routinely makes the international podium ahead of quadsters by maximizing those athletic gifts,
So yes, he should do shows. And comps.
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2014
I was curious so I went back and looked at Ilia’s scores from the JGP and Cup of Austria ( I’m not sure what other competitions he did this year or if he did any other international ones). Out of those he had 2 quads landed with positive goe. PCS scores are in the high 6s and 7s. I really like Ilia and think he’s extremely talented and his scoring potential is certainly high. But I’m not sure I’m sold yet on the consistency. I think he had the skate of his life at nationals and it was amazing to watch. I hope he can replicate that success but I wouldn’t place any bets on it just yet. Especially since he has no reputation to hold him up with mistakes. That would be a pretty big gamble when you have the strength of the other 3 men that is more proven. I’m glad Ilia was given worlds, but I also think the Olympic team was the right choice.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
The Olympics are not a training ground, for me. The USFS should name the three skaters who have the best results over the year, by their crtieria. And IMO those three skaters are Nathan, Vincent and Jason.
Ilia does not improve the chances of Team USA in the team event, as it is done by placements, not score. Could Ilia medal individually if there is a a massive splatfest? Sure. Jason could medal if there is a massive splatfest, in fact, I think it is more likely.
That said, Ilia has a great deal of talent and I am sure that he is professional enough and sporting enough to take this as inspiration to do better things, rather than some sort of statement about the USFS commitment to its future, which it is not. I look forward to to what he does.
Actually I think using Ilia in the free program makes far more sense in the team event than Jason.
The worst you can place there is fifth. The Japanese Canadians Russians and maybe China are all sending guys who can beat Jason if they skate well. Why not take the great jumper if they want team gold USFSA needs top 2 placement from the men in both events .
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
because all of those skaters will also beat Ilia.
I am not a Johnny Come Lately on the skills of Ilia. As a devotee of the US Junior men, I have been watching and admiring him for two (three?) years.
US Nats was the skate of his life, Good for him.
I would rather go with the reliable, consistent scorer than the skater who could land four jumps, or could not land them, depending. US Nats is not the best measure of Ilia’s consistency.But, I do not think we will convince each other, which is OK.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I don't think medal possibilities would be any reason to send Jason or Ilya to Beijing. For me, the reason to go with the Nationals result is to give experience to a potential future champion and have athletes know that Nationals are at least somewhat meaningful in the selection process. A Nationals medal alone gets you group 3, but effectively it only puts you ahead of those in group 4, and it's not advantageous at all to win a silver medal over a bronze apparently.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
I don’t understand that.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
But didn't we know that from Ross Miner? From Mirai Nagasu?
Nationals is not meaningless, but it is not the Olympic trials. The skates of your life at Nats are not going to get you on the Olympic team. Ask Ross Miner. And every skater knows that going in, and their coaches know it going in.
Is that the best way to select a team? I have always loved "first three go", so that certainly would be an easier, cleaner way. But it's not what USFS does, the skaters and their coaches know it's not what they do, and changing the rules after Nats would send far more of a "wrong signal" to any skater, (oopsie, too bad, all those criteria, we were just kidding).
Yes, it would be wonderful for Ilia to get experience, I understand that. I don't see that as a reason to select him for the team over someone else who has qualified.
But I will say, more discussion of US men is always a good thing in my book, so thanks to Ilia and Jason for providing discussion material.
