US Olympic Team Announced

[ice coverage]

I was delving into the sorting criteria and the last one is “comparison of 2021 US Nats to 2022 US Nats” and thinking since Ilya had no 2021 US Nats placement he would be at a loss because he didn’t have anything to compare it to. I guess in their trying to think of everything they could possibly think of USFS didn’t think of a situation where a skater who WD from 2021 Nats would place in top 3 of 2022 Nats. Because I don’t know how one would compare a WD to any placement. 8th is a higher placement than WD.

I think you're missing my point.
For 2022 Nats results, Ilia clearly "wins" the comparison to Jason.
For 2021 Nats results, perhaps Jason "wins" the comparison to Ilia -- or perhaps no one wins, given that Ilia withdrew.
In any case, the criteria are clear that 2022 Nats results take priority over 2021 Nats results.

If anyone "wins" the overall comparison of Nats results, it would be Ilia.
I do not see any basis for saying that Jason has an advantage in overall comparison of Nats results.

(Again, I know that Nats results are only one slice of the selection criteria.)

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I actually disagree here. I think plenty of sports and teams would go for the newcomer especially if the established star never brought in a major title or medal. And wasn’t in the hunt for one.

It's astounding to me the extent to which the USFSA coddles a skater who has never won a world or Olympic individual medal, a single GP or 4CC title, or a National title in the last 7 years.

 

[moonvine]

I think you're missing my point.
For 2022 Nats results, Ilia clearly "wins" the comparison to Jason.
For 2021 Nats results, perhaps Jason "wins" the comparison to Ilia -- or perhaps no one wins, given that Ilia withdrew.
In any case, the criteria are clear that 2022 Nats results take priority over 2021 Nats results.

If anyone "wins" the overall comparison of Nats results, it would be Ilia.
I do not see any basis for saying that Jason has an advantage in overall comparison of Nats results.

(Again, I know that Nats results are only one slice of the selection criteria.)

I think you are correct. But this was the tiebreaker. Which they didn’t get to.

 

[moonvine]

It's astounding to me the extent to which the USFSA coddles a skater who has never won a world or Olympic individual medal, a single GP or 4CC title, or a National title in the last 7 years.

Maybe you should get with them on the correct criteria to use in 2026.

 

[ice coverage]

I think you are correct. But this was the tiebreaker. Which they didn’t get to.

Perhaps the selection committee did not get to it.

But in this thread, your original comment was that Jason had an advantage in Nats results -- which seemed like partisan (and unfounded) spinning either in support of Jason and/or against Ilia.

(I've had my say now, and will move on. )

 

[treblemakerem]

Well, it's not just "one performance"; he was the top qualifier to the JGPF and won every segment of the four he skated in the series.

There’s a big difference between jr and sr. Look at the protocols and you’ll see a good junior skater but nothing mindblowing. He did not perform like he did at nationals earlier in the season.

 

[moonvine]

Perhaps the selection committee did not get to it.

But in this thread, your original comment was that Jason had an advantage in Nats results -- which seemed like partisan (and unfounded) spinning either in support of Jason and/or against Ilia.

(I've had my say now, and will move on. )

Yes. I have agreed I interpreted it wrongly. Apologies.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Maybe you should get with them on the correct criteria to use in 2026.

They should just go with the 2022 criteria and make the right decision, which they didn't.

 

[readernick]

There’s a big difference between jr and sr. Look at the protocols and you’ll see a good junior skater but nothing mindblowing. He did not perform like he did at nationals earlier in the season.

Yes, those performances would have left him last or close to the bottom at many Senior GPs which isn't to take away from what he accomplished because it was amazing how much better he did at Nationals! I know because I love watching the beautiful mess that is junior men's figure skating.

 

[moonvine]

Well, it's not just "one performance"; he was the top qualifier to the JGPF and won every segment of the four he skated in the series.

And he watered down his content to ensure he won (which is 1000% a viable strategy). His scores were not top 15 in the world. If they had been, he would have had a stronger case.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

One thing that stands out to me is that Jason finished fourth instead of third by 38 hundredth of a point. What would the discussion be if Jason had grabbed an extra half point, or if Vincent had been dinged a tad harder for his errors. Would we be saying, about Vincent, that one pewrformanc e he's an Olympic medal candidate and the next he's a choker, so we should send the reliable (?) and brilliant Maninin instead of Chou?

If Jason beat Zhou, certain people would have been more insufferable than they are now. And we would have never heard the end of how Zhou wasn’t kept out of the Olympics — oh wait, ahem, sorry, I mean, how *Malinin didn’t get to go to the Olympics*.

“Unfortunately” because Zhou edged out Brown overall, that denied the Zhou dislikers their much-desired ammunition to justify leaving Zhou out of the Olympics, which they desperately wanted to happen.

Even though with a GP gold and silver, and World bronze, Zhou is overall a far better choice than Brown or Malinin.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

If Jason beat Zhou, certain people would have been more insufferable than they are now. And we would have never heard the end of how Zhou wasn’t kept out of the Olympics — oh wait, ahem, sorry, I mean, how *Malinin didn’t get to go to the Olympics*.

If Jason beat Vincent, at least he would have achieved both parts of the group 3 qualification. 4th is not the same as 3rd. Wanting Vincent off the team means you disagree with the selection criteria, which is fine. Thinking Ilya should be picked ahead of Jason doesn't have to do with liking or disliking the criteria. The whole purpose of selection is "to field the most competitive team" and "to determine athletes/teams who will have the most performance impact at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games." The selection criteria are intended to drive towards that goal.

 

[moonvine]

They should just go with the 2022 criteria and make the right decision, which they didn't.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[bekalc]

If there were only two spots even I would take Nathan and Zhou. I don’t have issues with body of work. But I have standards on what that actually IS

The problem I have with well his senior b wasn’t perfect.

He is a junior skater. They are a bit inconsistent they are just figuring out.

But you still take the Really talented ones and let them compete and get the kinks out.

Adelina was what 9th at her first worlds.

The kind of potential Ilia showed is worth nurturing and taking a chance on.

So what if he falls at worlds? Who cares? Nathan made huge mistakes at his first Olympics.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If Jason beat Vincent, at least he would have achieved both parts of the group 3 qualification. 4th is not the same as 3rd.

True. But I don’t think that would have satisfied certain people. They wouldn’t be fine with Brown making the team if Zhou was also on the team too. Not sure if it’s out of dislike for Zhou or knowing that Zhou being on the team likely denies Jason another Olympic team medal, or both… but the results were correct IMO.

Zhou had many issues but still did 5 clean quads across both programs. Brown did 0 clean quads (and did just one attempt which was a q fall). Zhou was higher by less than a point. That’s not the most egregious result.

 

[el henry]

Perhaps the selection committee did not get to it.

But in this thread, your original comment was that Jason had an advantage in Nats results -- which seemed like partisan (and unfounded) spinning either in support of Jason and/or against Ilia.

(I've had my say now, and will move on. )

Moonvine has been nothing if not fair in her assessments and reading of the criteria. ETA: I believe that she has already stated that she was incorrect in one of her readings and has apologized, so I commend you for finding the error and Moonvine for acknowledging it.

She has not spun in either Jason's or Ilia's direction. so I am sorry it appeared that way to you. It did not to me.

Coming to a conclusion based on criteria is of course not in and of itself "unfounded" spinning, whether correct or incorrect, but coming to a conclusion. And of course avoiding such conclusions does not in and of itself show fairness or impartiality, but merely avoids coming to a conclusion. Incorrect reading is incorrect reading, not spinning.

 

[moonvine]

If there were only two spots even I would take Nathan and Zhou. I don’t have issues with body of work. But I have standards on what that actually IS

The problem I have with well his senior b wasn’t perfect.

He is a junior skater. They are a bit inconsistent they are just figuring out.

But you still take the Really talented ones and let them compete and get the kinks out.

Adelina was what 9th at her first worlds.

The kind of potential Ilia showed is worth nurturing and taking a chance on.

So what if he falls at worlds? Who cares? Nathan made huge mistakes at his first Olympics.

They are taking a chance with him. He’s on the Worlds team.

 

[el henry]

They should just go with the 2022 criteria and make the right decision, which they didn't.

So far, no one who disagrees with the decision has been able to point to the specific criteria that made this the wrong decision. Four quads, future of figure skating, 20 points difference at Nats: none of this is in the criteria, that I see.

So, what in the criteria did the selection committee assess incorrectly that makes it the wrong decision?

 

[lariko]

If there were only two spots even I would take Nathan and Zhou. I don’t have issues with body of work. But I have standards on what that actually IS

The problem I have with well his senior b wasn’t perfect.

He is a junior skater. They are a bit inconsistent they are just figuring out.

But you still take the Really talented ones and let them compete and get the kinks out.

Adelina was what 9th at her first worlds.

The kind of potential Ilia showed is worth nurturing and taking a chance on.

So what if he falls at worlds? Who cares? Nathan made huge mistakes at his first Olympics.

Well, one thing that USFS did well in the aftermath, is announce immediately that Malinin is going to the Worlds. That, at least, everyone can agree on, I hope.

 

[readernick]

If Jason beat Zhou, certain people would have been more insufferable than they are now. And we would have never heard the end of how Zhou wasn’t kept out of the Olympics — oh wait, ahem, sorry, I mean, how *Malinin didn’t get to go to the Olympics*.

“Unfortunately” because Zhou edged out Brown overall, that denied the Zhou dislikers their much-desired ammunition to justify leaving Zhou out of the Olympics, which they desperately wanted to happen.

Even though with a GP gold and silver, and World bronze, Zhou is overall a far better choice than Brown or Malinin.

Don't disagree with you about the hate. The way Vincent is talked about online makes me want to hug him for a long time and tell him he is special and deserving. Also, he should be on the Olympic team based on the criteria set out, no question. However, you know as well as I do that Vincent should have been 4th. Did he rotate more than 2 jumps in the LP? It didn't look like it to me.