- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
The Vincent hate is appalling.
US Olympic Team Announced
- Thread starter Minz
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2019
Some other past skaters: Tatsuki! Possibly Denis Ten. Both had great attention to detail. Maybe Javier Fernandez, he's not as balletic but is very fleet of feet. Stephane Lambiel also doesn't have the best lines, but does have great footwork and sense of rhythm.
ETA: Also Sandhu. Something special about those turn-of-the-century skaters...
Interesting food for thought would be to think of current skaters with a reputation for artistry but who don't fit the bill. Roman Sadovsky for instance has a gentle sweeping style, and seems to prefer lyrical dance, so would be unlikely. Kevin Aymoz's movement vocabulary is more street than concert dance and I'm not sure he can do steps at the tempo required. This type of programme demands agility rather than sustained long edges. Maybe Yuma Kagiyama might be able to manage the choreo (facial expression is another matter). Tomoki Hiwatashi, although his body proportions are quite different from Jason, is very flexible and agile.
If we don't limit it to men's singles, a few ice dancers might fit the bill.
Last edited:
Yes we can SCORING TRAJECTORY. Why isn’t technical content ie competitiveness on their.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
For skaters in the same group like Jason and Ilya:
"Three additional criteria will also be used to separate the athletes/teams within their priority groups with a similar body of work."
1) Scores at the 2021 ISU World Figure Skating Championships and 2021 Grand Prix Final and the placement at the 2022 Toyota U.S. Figure Skating
2) Trending scores showing an acceleration of scores through the identified events will be favored versus a deceleration or stagnation in scores. The 2022 Toyota U.S. Figure Skating Championships will be the final event for trending scores.
3) Comparison of the placement of the athletes/teams from the 2021 and 2022 Toyota U.S. Figure Skating Championships
These are "tiebreakers" in the sense that they're considered if skaters cannot be separated by "body of work." To be clear, "body of work" does not mean "only international events." In fact, body of work specifically includes the 2022 and 2021 Nationals events (see 1.2.1 under "Tryout Events"). "Body of work" considers international scores seperately from Nationals placements and scores, so it's not clear how they are weighed against each other. However, given that a Nationals medal gets its own prong of the two-part group 3 test, we know it is at least somewhat important (not as important as a worlds medal which would get you into at least group 2, but more important than a GP/GPF event where a medal alone would not advance you into a higher group). Choosing Jason over Ilya requires igorning the Nationals result, when in fact it should make the committee examine the tiebreakers since Jason was much stronger internationally, while Ilya was stronger at Nationals where he medalled and presented a level that Jason has never achieved in his long career.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
Interesting thoughts. Thanks for your input as a dancer. ( If I remember correctly) Definitely agree about Sandhu and
Tatsuki. I personally don't really see Ten, Fernandez, or Lambiel moving their body in quite the way required for this style. Although, they definitely all had the skating skills and musicality required. Roman's style is very different and while I really like him I don't think he has quite the attention to detail required yet. Or, maybe he does but the technical issues take him out of the performance too often. Yuma could do it from a skating skills perspective and maybe in a few years from a performance perspective. Tomoki, yes! But, like Roman he might find it difficult to maintain performance when things go wrong. Thanks again. Now, I need to stop using this forum as a way to avoid dealing with insomnia and stress. ; ) Good day!
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
Thank you for presenting this, I understand the argument better now. I would have the comments.
1. Why is the bolded part more important than the other part? Doesn't Jason prevail on the non bolded part, which is more of the sentence?
2. Why is acceleration bolded? I don't think anyone disagrees that Ilia would prevail on that part, but nothing makes it more important than the others.
3. How do Jason and Ilia compare on the other critieria?
There is no way that I can interpret these criteria, as written, to give Nats results some sort of overriding interest. I realize that would help Ilia's case, but I don't see that in the language.
I don't think anyone will convince folks here, but thanks again.
Jason
Trajectory is important because the point is the goal is to take the best skater NOW. Not the best skater a year ago. So that is why it should way heavily
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
Jason is stronger on criteria addressing international scores. And in fact the document says:
"Analyzing the competitiveness and consistency of the international scores from the identified events (1.2.1.) to differentiate the athlete’s/team’s body of work will be used to rank the athletes/teams within their priority groups."
So I read this as "competitiveness from the identified events" and "consistency of the international scores from the identified events." Why? Because competitiveness is defined earlier in the document:
"Competitiveness will be based on comparing an athlete’s/team’s scores from the events listed in 1.2.1. to benchmarks from the scores that earned placements in the Top 3, Top 5 or Top 10 at the 2021 ISU World Figure Skating Championships. Scores from the preceding ISU World Figure Skating Championships have proven to be indicators of medal potential for the upcoming Olympic Games and is therefore a key factor in determining the 2022 U.S Olympic Team. In addition, the athlete’s/team’s best score at the international events listed in 1.2.1. will be used to separate athletes with similar scores during the identified events. Domestic placement and scores at the 2021 and 2022 Toyota U.S. Figure Skating Championships will also be taken into consideration but will not be directly compared to international scores."
So those are the primary criteria. In no way are either Nationals scores or placements not part of the equation. Again, to me it's a toss-up until you consider the tie-breaker criteria which Ilya edges Jason out, specifically on score trajectory and improving the year-over-year Nationals placement.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
We can discuss, debate and whine but the decision has been made to send Jason. He is a gorgeous skater even without a quad. I guess in the past they may have sent Ilya based upon he is an up and comer with great promise and the US already has two medal threats with quads. Come olympics in 4 weeks the focus will be on winning medals for the US. I will remember Ilya - even though he is a good sport can you deep down imagine if Jason gets to skate in the team event and wins a medal while none of us will think of this can you imagine how Ilya might feel from almost making the team and the guy who gets to go with no quad gets an Olympic medal maybe even gold!
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
1. I believe every agrees the scoring trajectory weighs in favor of Ilia. That is only one criteria. I should have been clearer, I apologize: a comparison side by side of all criteria, as was done by Jackie Wong.
2. I don't know why "technical content" (presumably technical content at this one comp of Nats) is not in the criteria, but as I read it, it is not contained. So that in and of itself is not considered by the Committee. So, again, four quads, 20 point difference, is not, as I read it, in the language of this document.
As I have said several times, I liked Ilia before liking Ilia was cool. I've been following his career with increasing interest for some time. I think he'll do great things. Dear God, he got a Worlds assignment, that's amazing. And of course, I am a big fan of Jason and am thrilled he made the team. This is about a document and how I read it.
But I don't think explaining is doing much good, and the team is what the team is. I will enjoy both the US men's Olympics and Worlds Team.
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2020
What is this BS about body of work and Jason Brown. Those two are mutually exclusive. He is third rate competition who has not accomplish anything noteworthy when he is one of the most senior skaters around. You'd think they were talking of a multiple Worlds and GPF medalist. Nope this a guy that is sent to Worlds with the US skating fed hoping he doesn't screw up his usual low but consistent level so they keep their World spots. The perfect synergy of low expectations and ingrained habit.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
Ignoring the rest of this rage-bait garbage, if this is so true, doesn't this say something about the rest of the US men that the US fed has to "hope he doesn't screw up his usual low but consistent level so they keep their Worldl spots"?
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
I only suggested that even when Vincent kinda implodes, it still scores around what Jason does when he's decent
So I don't think there's much to consider, The mission is to assume Kolyada, Jin and Uno\Kagyima are going to
compete well (in the FS) and try to beat them and steal their points somehow.
I wouldn't consider Vincent in the SP instead of Nathan, Also due to the proximity of the mens event
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
The criteria they chose basically has him needing to compete decently in his allotted GPs and that's it
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
That actually would make more sense
Right, like "kinda" Worlds 2021.
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
That was a SP so not what we're talking about
The loss potential when you have 40 contestants in a skate as opposed to 5 contestants
is much different
Of course.
Jason won the free skate over Vincent by 11 points also, at Nationals. A Vincent who did not have one UR called.
It's "astounding" how they could leave Ilia Malinin out who had a chance to make a case for himself internationally at CS Cup of Austria, but failed to get his SP World minimums and scored 40 points lower than Brown's mediocre, by his own PB standard, median score of 262. Malinin who with 6 quads! only managed to beat a Brown, with a q and a fall on his only quad, by 12 points overall at Nationals.
How could they not send Malinin over Brown who only has this small list of achievments:
2013-2014: Silver at CS Nebelhorn, Bronze at IDF, Silver at US Championships, Bronze at Winter Olympics (team), top 9 at the Winter Olympics
2014-2015: Gold at CS Nebelhorn, Silver at Skate America, Gold at the US Championships, top 4 at World Championships
2015-2016: Gold at CS Ondrej Nepela, Bronze at Skate America
2016-2017: Silver at CS Lombardia, Gold at CS US Classic, Silver at Skate America, Bronze at US Championships, top 7 at World Championships
2017-2018: Silver at CS Lombardia, Silver at Skate Canada, Bronze at Four Continents Championships
2018-2019: Silver at IDF, Gold at CS Golden Spin of Zagreb, Bronze at US Championships, top 9 at Worlds
2019-2020: Silver at Skate America, Gold at CS Golden Spin of Zagreb, Silver at US Championships, Silver at Four Continents Championships
2020-2021: Bronze at US Championships, top 7 at World Championships
2021-2022: Gold at CS Finlandia, Silver at Skate Canada, Bronze at IDF
But don't worry, even if Brown would be two time gold World medalist, five time Olympic medalist and 458 times 4CC gold medalist, there will always be a reason that can be found to MINIMIZE Jason Brown. I wonder how he can sleep at night with the "failure" of career he's had. USFSF must be mad to have chosen him as third in line based on THEIR OWN CRITERIA.
Last edited:
We could argue for the next four years, but I personally think the decision has been made when they compared the median scores.
Jason 262, Ilia 222. That's why, I think, shortly after the medal ceremony was over the team was already officially chosen. Jason found out after the ceremony when he was still at doping, almost two hours before we, fans, found out.
Jason 262, Ilia 222. That's why, I think, shortly after the medal ceremony was over the team was already officially chosen. Jason found out after the ceremony when he was still at doping, almost two hours before we, fans, found out.
