Well, it's not just "potential" as Ilya scored higher at Nationals than Jason ever has. It kind of trivializes Ilya's accomplishment when you make his potential ceiling sound like something theoretical instead of what he actually put out in an important competition.
Exactly. Ilia REALIZED it. Only once, but Jason never came close. Will Ilia be able to repeat that and to go from there under different circumstances? One should have included a great surprise in the criteria. Jason will be fine in shows; but there's no point to let him go in order to place somewhere when there's a promising alternative around.
The scores are "home cooked" but not the skaters' performances. If Ilya skated his Nationals performances at his Senior B and scored 40 points lower, his international senior mean score would be higher than Jason's. If Ilya then came in 5th at Nationals behind Jason in 3rd, would you have put Ilya on the team?
Yeah. One has been 17 for around two months, so he hasn't had any opportunities to not win a GP or 4CC aside from Skate America last year.
I said "Jason WILL be fine in shows" - when he ends his career. He was successful as far as he could be - and this means: no medals at the Olys or worlds. Ilia PERHAPS can get there. PERHAPS. Jason for sure not. But having a skater with the potential to be top three when it counts should be imperative for a federation as big as the US.Jason is more than "fine in shows". Jason is a elite, competitive athlete whose median score is twenty points more than Ilia's, going into Nats.
Ilia has never come close to what he did at Nats, and of course there was Nats' home cooking. For everyone.
Jason has taken the scoring as the ISU currently constructs it and placed routinely on international podiums with scoring rom international judges, finishing ahead of many a quadster. Neither Jason nor Ilia have a chance of medaling in Beijing, even if that were a criteria, in a "normal" comp.
I have always been an advocate of "first three go". But I am also an advocate of fairness. The criteria are what they are, Jason played by the rules, and Jason qualified. There is every point in selecting the skater who qualified and "allowing" him to go.
Says who? If Ilya won Nationals by 100 points, he'd certainly be on the team. The actual situation is obviously very different, but it is false to say that any result at Nationals alone won't qualify you. You make these very sweeping statements when the truth is that everything is looked at on a case-by-case basis, as it should be.
It was a National competition. National competitions are higher scoring than International competitions. The USFS counts scores from International competitions. Ilia had one senior international score this year. He scored 222.55
If if if if. If wishes were horses even beggars would ride.
I didn't maintain that Ilia has already achieved a lot of things. But he has the potential to perhaps do it. In the end the top three at Worlds and Olys is the ultimate achievement. Jason will never get it, he showed that multiple times, whereas he has a lot of positive things on his side - a long career, a lot of opportuities to do what he loves, a beautiful way to skate (perhaps pleasing more people than a skate that gains a big medal; that depends). If Ilia will be able to reach for higher goals remains to be seen. But it would be wiser to do everything possible to get him in contention. What Jason did is pretty good on the GP level and puts him in a good position for a professional career. As one may guess ... yes, I'm not a fan of getting very far without a quad in men's (or (recently) women's) skating. Luckily the times one can win a really important medal without quads are over. Ilia is going in the right direction, at least. ... interesting how heated the debate turns immediately ... de facto I only wanted to try out that, usually I don't post in that forum, I don't concur with the general mood here ... of course I like the Eteri factory very much and the Russian way of thinking as well (why aren't you first???- a man without a quad???) ... well, Russian men should do much more in the 4 department, obviously, so THAT's a kind of problematic for them. Yesterday at the press conference the Russian girls were asked about Malinin (4-4). They were impressed, always interested to push boundaries, and talked of some technical plans for the off season (injuries might happen ...). Sasha noticed it was not her achievement to be first with a video like that ... (not so good, obviously; her comment was given in a funny mood)
)) I like Nathan and Yuzu very much, by the way. Great programs and great technical content. And the determination to push forward.
But they are important, at least for me, to counter the argument (not made by you, but made in this thread, and to which Tavi was responding ) that Ilia had a better chance of medaling in this Olympics than Jason.
