What Are the Age Restrictions and Do They Make Sense?

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I believe when I was pushing Mao to be in the Olys and Worlds 2006, there was a clear NO from most of the fans on GS. It was a rule not to be broken. The Rule was that a minimum age was set at 16 for Senior events. I could understand the Oly rule as that organization has it's own set of rules.

What I don't understand about the Worlds, is that the ISU also has the same restriction on major senior events. Yet the ISU permits skaters less than 16 at its Senior GP events when in fact there are such events solely for Juniors

Can anyone clarify this for me and others who are discussing it in the US Nats folder

I can not believe it is to prevent injury to a young skater who must up his/her Technical to be Senior ready. But the Senior GP is a major ISU event.

Joe.

 

[attyfan]

I read somewhere that the ISU is also concerned about limiting the exploitation of young skaters (at least, limit their exploitation by anyone other than the ISU) A 15 year old World or Oly champ is more likely to get exploited than a 15 year old winner of SA or even the GPF.

Whenever the age limits have been discussed, I notice that it is always a doctor speaking in favor of an age limit to prevent injury, although they never address why no limit is required for the GP. IMO, the ISU should force member federations to "open their files" (and doors) and start doing some serious research -- is age a factor? are the coaches in country X using techniques different from those in country Y that could reduce injuries if made mandatory? and then make the decision (get rid of the age rule; extend the age rule to all senior ISU events, etc.)

 

[gkelly]

Whenever the age limits have been discussed, I notice that it is always a doctor speaking in favor of an age limit to prevent injury, although they never address why no limit is required for the GP.

There is a minimum age limit for the GP, it's just 1 year younger than the limit for senior ISU championships (and 1 year older than the minimum for junior internationals including the junior world championships).

Whether those limits are the best way to achieve the various goals they're designed for is another question.

 

[chuckm]

The Rule was that a minimum age was set at 16 for Senior events. I could understand the Oly rule as that organization has it's own set of rules.

What I don't understand about the Worlds, is that the ISU also has the same restriction on major senior events. Yet the ISU permits skaters less than 16 at its Senior GP events when in fact there are such events solely for Juniors

To compete in Senior ISU championships (Worlds, 4CC, Euros), a skater must have turned fifteen by July 1st of the year preceding the Championships.

So to compete at 2008 Worlds, 4CC or Euros, a skater must be 15 as of July 1st, 2007.

For some reason, the ISU allows skaters to compete in the GP if they have turned 14 by July 1st.

 

[merrybari]

To compete in Senior ISU championships (Worlds, 4CC, Euros), a skater must have turned fifteen by July 1st of the year preceding the Championships.

So to compete at 2008 Worlds, 4CC or Euros, a skater must be 15 as of July 1st, 2007.

For some reason, the ISU allows skaters to compete in the GP if they have turned 14 by July 1st.

Seems a bit like double standard, which has never made sense to me.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Thanks for the clarification of the age restrictions. So it's one year less for the GPs. Does anyone know the rationale behind that?

Injury? Explotation?

Joe

 

[merrybari]

Thanks for the clarification of the age restrictions. So it's one year less for the GPs. Does anyone know the rationale behind that?

Injury? Explotation?

Joe

I agree, it would be nice to know why.

 

[sillylionlove]

I agree that this seems a little wierd...it's ok to compete around the world in the Grand Prix but not at the world championships. It doens't make sense to me at all.

 

[beep_beep]

I'm no doctor, but I would go for the injury thing.
It's known that when we have growth spurts, the bones grow faster than the muscles and ligaments, which makes the muscles weaker and a lot more injury prone. With those little grils hitting puberty much later than girls who are not athletes, I guess they are trying to disencourage young kids from trying really hard stuff.
IMO it's a good and valid measure, whether or not it's really an effective one, that's to be discussed...

 

[Mafke]

As long as there are jr and sr divisions, age limits make sense.

Also, as a purely subjective issue. I'd generally rather watch young women skate (18-24 give or take a year or so) with fewer triples and fewer triple-triple combos than watch competitions dominated by the 15 year old du saison, using atrocious technique to get the teeny tiny jumps out.

If I could trust that the judges would judge these little pre-rotating flutzerellas correctly that would be one thing but the audiences would be upset because they wouldn't understand the results.

And from a crass, materialistic viewpoint (bills do have to be paid) very young champions are not good for the sport. Audiences may like watching the youngest ever win, but the record so far indicates they don't have much use for them afterwards.

 

[alicelouise]

Age limit

Age limits make sense. You can only hope all ISU countries comply with them. For instance, not fudging the birthdate of a female competitor.

In gymnastics you see all these teeny tiny girls who are supposed to 16 or older. It seems in skating they are probably more compliant. The leading countries though are open societies(South Korea and Japan). Any inconsistency in information provided would be caught out.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm no doctor, but I would go for the injury thing.
It's known that when we have growth spurts, the bones grow faster than the muscles and ligaments, which makes the muscles weaker and a lot more injury prone. With those little grils hitting puberty much later than girls who are not athletes, I guess they are trying to disencourage young kids from trying really hard stuff.
IMO it's a good and valid measure, whether or not it's really an effective one, that's to be discussed...

And therefore, it will not happen in the GPs? only at other major events?

Joe

 

[Mathman]

As long as there are jr and sr divisions, age limits make sense.

Also, as a purely subjective issue. I'd generally rather watch young women skate (18-24 give or take a year or so) with fewer triples and fewer triple-triple combos than watch competitions dominated by the 15 year old du saison, using atrocious technique to get the teeny tiny jumps out.

But Joe's question is not, "Why do we have age limts?" It is, "Why are the age limits different for the Grand Prix than for Four Contintent, Europeans, and Worlds?"

Risk of injury? Is Caroline Zhang more likely to injure herself while training for Worlds than while training for her two GP events, the GP final, U.S. Nationals and World Juniors?

Shielding youngsters from media pressure? Would Caroline face greater hype, pressure, media exploitation and scutiny in going for a hoped-for podium finish at Four Continents and top ten at Worlds? Compared to being Miss Next in U.S. figure skating with two Grand Prix medals and a GP finals appearance, the possibilty of a dramatic upset at nationals, followed by the possibility of becoming the first skater to repeat as World Junior Champion?

We might prefer to watch performances by artistically more mature skaters rather than bouncy kids. But is there any reason why we would prefer to watch more mature ladies at Europeans, but bouncy kids at Cup of Russia?

 

[oleada]

I don't know why the different age limits, but I think the age limit for the ISU championships make sense. It's much harder to jump when you're shaped like a woman than when you're shaped like a little kid.

 

[Mathman]

I don't know why the different age limits, but I think the age limit for the ISU championships make sense. It's much harder to jump when you're shaped like a woman than when you're shaped like a little kid.

Again, the question is, suppose you are shaped like a little kid. Is it easier to jump at Skate Canada than at Four Continents?

Now suppose you are shaped like a woman. Is it harder to jump at Worlds than at the Grand Prix Finals?

 

[Coach]

Totally agree.... IMO there is not much difference in training for any event... most skaters are going to be push themselves to the max. This is hard to hold back as the sport continues to evolve. Look at the many career ending injuries by many top upcoming US skaters, as well as many other worldwide talents. And, it continues to happen to this day.

As for the ISU protecting talented young skater from the pouncing of agents and commercialization, equally, and those nations who consider 'slaving' a skater in order to produce medals.... Then, I am all for the age limitations.

 

[Eddie Lee]

I have complained about this discrepancy in age eligibility for years it seems. It is not a consistent rule (though I believe it is enforced, consistently), and it does not make sense on any level--to me. I don't believe the general public would understand it if they were aware of it. My answer is to make this rule consistant with EVERY sanctioned senior event. If there are not ISU rules in place to enforce its federations to observe such a rule, then such rules should be enacted.

Other issues I have:

Slow motion analyses by judges and/or tech callers. I believe slow/mo should be used only by a contestant's coach to protest a call. If the normal, judge's expert eye can't catch it, then it's being nitpicky! I.E. Don't call what you don';t see! Just like tennis and football. If the angle of sight is an issue, then judges or callers should be dispersed to various points of the arena for judging.

Judges attending practices. Why? I'm told because judging is so complicated that the judges need to observe the program to prepare for judging it. If you have ever been to pracitces, you will have noticed that some of the major contestants don't do a complete run through of the program at any of the practices. At Nationals 2006, I didn't see Sasha do more than trace her programs. Any jump attempt was very rare if at all. Others would do no-jump run throughs, or partial run throughs. Get the judges out and thus the competitors can practice as they wish--without a judicial eye.

Change of rules without at least a full year's notice.
Remember the pairs lift changes several years back. It was thought to favor a certain federations strengths (or lack of them). And this past year--the flutz and flip entrance are issues. Yes, the definition of these jumps is on the record, but to issue an untimely manifesto on the brink of a new season that the entrance edge must be correctly judged--after years of laxity certainly seemed to favor one of the super ladies over the other. Get these manifestos out in ample time. (I must add that it could have been worse timing. ISU could have waited until the fall of the Olympic season to do so. Wouldn't that have been a bummer!)

Off the soapbox for now!!!!

 

[Mafke]

But Joe's question is not, "Why do we have age limts?" It is, "Why are the age limits different for the Grand Prix than for Four Contintent, Europeans, and Worlds?"

True enough, I just felt like ranting (so I did! M'kay?)

Getting the the real question, as I griped about no end during the 05-06 season, I think there should be a uniform age limit for all ISU events (let each national federation set their own policy for national competitions).

 

[merrybari]

Getting the the real question, as I griped about no end during the 05-06 season, I think there should be a uniform age limit for all ISU events (let each national federation set their own policy for national competitions).

ITA! Keep it simple! but that appears to be a concept beyond their comprehension. *shrug*

 

[attyfan]

But Joe's question is not, "Why do we have age limts?" It is, "Why are the age limits different for the Grand Prix than for Four Contintent, Europeans, and Worlds?"
...

Shielding youngsters from media pressure? Would Caroline face greater hype, pressure, media exploitation and scutiny in going for a hoped-for podium finish at Four Continents and top ten at Worlds? Compared to being Miss Next in U.S. figure skating with two Grand Prix medals and a GP finals appearance, the possibilty of a dramatic upset at nationals, followed by the possibility of becoming the first skater to repeat as World Junior Champion?
...

I think actually Caroline would face greater hype going to 4CC and Worlds -- especially Worlds -- simply because there is more media attention given to Nats (which ISU rules can't do anything about anyway) and Worlds than given to any GP event, including the GP final.

Furthermore, the risks of Caroline being exploited financially really depend upon Nats and Worlds, not GP events. It is medaling at Nats or Worlds that turns the young skaters into potential money-magnets (getting them on tours or shows and even endorsements), not GP.