Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[EdgeCall]

It isn't our fault that the information is being hidden from the public no matter the reasoning.

I did not claim it were. What would be the reason to do so?

Unless they release more information, then the best information we have is what has been released by the media and it IS worth discussing.

But there is not much discussing going on. For the most part it's prejudice-based speculating.

If the ROC, Eteri, or the IOC think the released information is wrong the easy solution would be to release the truth, which they aren't doing.

But IOC itself told about legal problems, and this is one of the few things we do know. They try to work out what they can publish without legal consequences, and you are asking to just ignore them?

If there was an easy explanation there is 0 reason why the ROC couldn't release it to put an end to the conversation. Every minute they delay is increasing the chance that the reports is true.

I am pretty certain that when the suspicion against Valieva were confirmed then the "conversation" will really take steam on a much bigger scale. At least there will be some more substance to it. Your last line is just irrational.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

If it was totally false, once again, ROC could have come out two days ago to say the reports are not true. They haven't.

Also, don't lie about coverage. Media across the world is carrying the story. This includes many well respected sports journalists with experience covering such issues. They are waiting for details yes, but the idea that this is really nothing seems like delusion at this point.

Pretending that this is all a lie due to some paranoid delusion that everyone is out to get poor poor Russia is insane.

Exactly my point

 

[Wafflecakes]

I did not claim it were. What would be the reason to do so?

But there is not much discussing going on. For the most part it's prejudice-based speculating.

But IOC itself told about legal problems, and this is one of the few things we do know. They try to work out what they can publish without legal consequences, and you are asking to just ignore them?

I am pretty certain that when the suspicion against Valieva were confirmed then the "conversation" will really take steam on a much bigger skale. At least there will be some more substance to it. Your last line is just irrational.

The legal requirement of confidentiality because of Kamila's age impacts the IOC. It DOES NOT impact Kamila herself.

If she or her team ACTUALLY thought she was innocent they could waive confidentiality whenever they wanted. Their choice not to is pretty damning evidence of at least some level of truth being behind the reports.

 

[taikwan]

I'm just asking.....why is a 15 year old girl on heart meds? Just so bizarre. Especially knowing how athletic she is and what she has done to achieve this degree of difficulty and perfection at this age. And why risk future health?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Mildly beneficial = proven benefit. That is exactly what doping is.

You undermine your own point. It doesn't have to be a magic super drug in order to count as doping.

There's no "gotcha" in what I said, so you don't need to use that demeaning tone with me. I said it "could be" mildly beneficial, based on an interview with a Northwestern Feinberg Medical School professor (who knows more than I do, and I posted that quote on the first page here I believe). Nothing is "proven" without research to back it up. I'd say caffeine and aspirin have more of a "proven benefit" than this medication (although obviously, with research, it's possible that the heart medication would prove to be a lot more performance-enhancing). This medicine is on the banned list because of the theoretical benefit it might provide.

 

[soccerjc77]

I don't want to discredit the accomplishments of Kamila Valieva. She remains an incredible athlete. But, for real, if she disqualifies Russia from the gold medal through her fault. I think it would be a great consolation prize moment for Canada to win the bronze medal, it would make a happy ending for Roman Sadovsky to who I was deeply sad for him after his 3 programs who didn't work to his potential. If Roman walked away with a bronze consolation medal, I think it would be a happy ending for his Olympics

 

[EdgeCall]

The legal requirement of confidentiality because of Kamila's age impacts the IOC. It DOES NOT impact Kamila herself.

If she or her team ACTUALLY thought she was innocent they could waive confidentiality whenever they wanted. Their choice not to is pretty damning evidence of at least some level of truth being behind the reports.

I have just read that Eteri was asked about the case and her response was "I don't do gossip". Gives you a picture how she judges this affair.

 

[NAOTMAA]

The idea that "the longer it takes to investigate the more it must be true" is bogus. If anything it means it's all messed up, unclear and not clear cut.

As for anyone in camp Eteri not speaking equals guilt. Even more ridiculous. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to the microscope of the world media and open themselves up to further trashing and ridicule on social media? All it would do is lead to more gossip and stories despite lack of known facts. Innocent people have been declared guilty in media and online many times before and it could easily be true again

 

[Wafflecakes]

There's no "gotcha" in what I said, so you don't need to use that demeaning tone with me. I said it "could be" mildly beneficial, based on an interview with a Northwestern Feinberg Medical School professor (who knows more than I do, and I posted that quote on the first page here I believe). Nothing is "proven" without research to back it up.

You don't get to determine what is beneficial. WADA does. Forgive me if I take the group, whose job is policing doping, word over some random person on the internet.

Even if it did NOTHING (which isn't true) it wouldn't make one bit of a difference. It is a banned substance. He team knew they... they took it anyways.

Also, the idea that they would give a heart medication with, in your words, "no proven benefit", to a 15 year old is absurd. Obviously Eteri thinks it helps of she wouldn't have had her skater use it.

 

[Wafflecakes]

The idea that "the longer it takes to investigate the more it must be true" is bogus. If anything it means it's all messed up, unclear and not clear cut.

As for anyone in camp Eteri not speaking equals guilt. Even more ridiculous. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to the microscope of the world media and open themselves up to further trashing and ridicule on social media? All it would do is lead to more gossip and stories despite lack of known facts. Innocent people have been declared guilty in media and online many times before and it could easily be true again

Where there is smoke there is fire.

Closing your eyes, putting your fingers in your ears, and chanting "everyone is out to get Russia, everyone is out to get Russia", isn't going to change the fact that the room is filled with smoke at this point.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

You don't get to determine what is beneficial. WADA does. Forgive me if I take the groups whose job is policing doping over some random person on the internet.

Even if it did NOTHING (which isn't true) it wouldn't make one bit of a difference. It is a banned substance. He team knew they... they took it anyways.

Also, the idea that they would give a hearth medication with, in your words, "no proven benifit", to a 15 year old is absurd. Obviously Eteri thinks it helps of she wouldn't have had her skater use it.

I was refuting your point that it has a PROVEN benefit. It does not. You are welcome to provide research suggesting otherwise.

I agree that it is on the banned list.

 

[Wafflecakes]

I was refuting your point that it has a PROVEN benefit. It does not. You are welcome to provide research suggesting otherwise.

I agree it is on the banned list.

And I am refuting that it matters. WADA thinks it does have a benefit and their opinion is the only one that matters.

Her team knew the rules, and if reports are true, chose to break them. The consequences follow.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Genuine documented medical exemptions also have a publically available process people can follow and this process too isn't a secret.

Assuming the media reports about what this drug was are accurate there is effectively zero chance a 15 year old professional athlete would be taking it for a health problem. A 15 year old who actually needed this drug would not be able to be a professional athlete.

I can explain to you, because i've studied it, how someone who is diagnosed with ADHD should not be a professional athlete, or how that is not the best choice for majority of people dealing with it, but it obviously can and it is happening, so... (And the difference here is how i'm not talking from the point that Simone is doped, but just how that is not healthy for her...)

 

[soccerjc77]

Maybe that's the secret behind Eteri, drug like Anna Shcherbakova out of breath last year and suddenly ok in the FS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPyut1S9caI That was strange ! To be so strong after been out of breath after the SP. I don't discredit Anna beautiful performance either, but something look wrong in the Eteri camp for year, and this situation with Kamila is like the cherry in the cake.

 

[Wafflecakes]

I can explain to you, because i've studied it, how someone who is diagnosed with ADHD should not be a professional athlete, or how it is not a best choice for the people dealing with it, but it obviously can and it is possible, so...

Lol what is this BS? Stop making stuff up. There is NO impact on athletic ability for ADHD and by some estimates between 8-10 percent of all pro athletes have ADHD.

This also has NOTHING to do with the current scandal other than trying to distract from Kamila's alleged doping.

 

[Vlad Karigov]

I'm just asking.....why is a 15 year old girl on heart meds? Just so bizarre. Especially knowing how athletic she is and what she has done to achieve this degree of difficulty and perfection at this age. And why risk future health?

I have a better question, why the best skater in history, who defeats all his rivals for 40 points would need an substance for competition, because according to the Fake News a microdosis was detected... and what would help a microdosis... that instead of winning with 270 points win by 267 !!!! Be serious, gentlemen...

The most ridiculous thing is that now in another site's latrine they are saying that Valieva without doping did not win Sakamoto and Chen, that's why they did not put the other girls because of the risk of finish third...

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Lol what is this BS? Stop making stuff up. There is NO impact on athletic ability for ADHD and by some estimates between 8-10 percent of all pro athletes have ADHD.

This also has NOTHING to do with the current scandal other than trying to distract from Kamila's alleged doping.

Believe me, i mean i'm serious now, that is not scientifically possible.... And if it is, you've just explained how some of todays athletes are doped - but being 'falsely' diagnosed... Or, as i think, you are just giving false information, for whatever reason you have...

 

[Wafflecakes]

I have a better question, why the best skater in history, who defeats all his rivals for 40 points would need an substance for competition, because according to the Fake News a microdosis was detected... and what would help a microdosis... that instead of winning with 270 points win by 267 !!!! Be serious, gentlemen...

The most ridiculous thing is that now in another site's latrine they are saying that Valieva without doping did not win Sakamoto and Chen, that's why they did not put the other girls because of the risk of finish third...

Your posts are coming unhinged.

There is no conspiracy. She likely tested positive for a banned substance.

No amount of deflecting, playing the victim for Russia, or talking about what you claim someone said on another site will change this if the reports are true.

Literally no one here is claiming she isn't a great athlete. However, that is irrelevant to the fact that if she did take a banned substance, regardless of how much or how little impact it had on her wins, she must suffer the consequences.

 

[LiamForeman]

My personal opinion, is that the first option is the most likely.

It also likely means the whole ET team and possibly the entire Russian team is on the same regime.

I admit that was my thought too. And that Eteri and RusFed tried to use the "minor competitor" loophole to exploit it to their advantage. Sounds awfully dishonest and corrupt, and I hope that's not the case. But it also makes sense why Sasha and Anna weren't included in the TeamEvent, that maybe they have been using TMZ and wanted to wait more time until it was cleared. Or maybe it was just Kamila because she was the only minor. It's sad to think like that.

I'm not optimistic much for Kamila though. Should she be that 'special' doping athlete that gets only a stern warning because she's a minor and it was the corrupt coaching team that derailed her career? Part of me says YES ABSOLUTELY YES. Krystal is not at all like American skating. Sure, there are abusive coaches here, but they don't practically OWN you and dictate how much water you can drink, how many ounces you can gain, if you show weakness you are ejected from the school. It's another world for the Eteri girls. I personally could handle Eteri but only up to her doping me, especially if I'm the greatest skater in the world. At 15 I would have been on top of EVERYTHING I put in my body. Kamila seems meek to me. Sheltered. We shouldn't then expect a 15 year old child to stand up to the top coach in Russia who can destroy your career on a whim. So I say give her a pass, but take Eteri to task and punish her. It just seems like such hubris to have your best skater in the world who outscores everyone, but then wanting to drive it home with unimaginable win margins. When you decide that Kamila should go even further to beat Anna the current world champ by over 20/30 points, that is just arrogance and hubris. She seriously wouldn't have had a problem winning big in the first place without this 'doping'. And the beneficial effects from what I'm reading is that 'theoretically' it might help, but it hasn't been shown to. It reminds me of Meldonium that Tuk admitted to using. Did it help her? Who knows. She's never been on an Olympic team after three tries so it doesn't look like some miracle performance enhancer. Kamila is the victim here. And I almost always side with the victims.

 

[skatedreamer]

I can explain to you, because i've studied it, how someone who is diagnosed with ADHD should not be a professional athlete, or how that is not the best choice for majority of people dealing with it, but it obviously can and it is happening, so... (And the difference here is how i'm not talking from the point that Simone is doped, but just how that is not healthy for here...)

Strongly disagree. There's nothing -- absolutely nothing -- about ADHD itself that should discourage anybody from pursuing professional athletics.