Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Greengemmonster]

I’m also skeptical of the entire school at this point, and will probably never be able to accept any of their victories without skepticism ever again (though I will still appreciate the young athletes and their performances), and I absolutely agree that you cannot disqualify any skaters without evidence.

Even if you could argue some kind of sanction against the coaching staff that would impact the athletes, there is no way we will have the evidence to support that in 4 days time.

The best thing that can happen is for an actual investigation to take place and if they find that the adults dosed Kamila (I say if but my personal opinion is that it must be them), disband the entire school. The athletes can move onto other coaches and it will blow over. I think people will move on and forget and perhaps this is the best thing for them.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Calalang / Johnson were banned from competing at Worlds 2021, and the banned substance turned out to be in her eyelash serum. She was cleared 8 months later. By the same token, Kamila should be excluded from the Olympic Women's competition pending final disposition of the matter.

Why she should be, if they already have a 'proof' it was in her eyelash serum too. To start a debate from the premise that someone must be guilty is beyond my recognition and my knowledge and my views on humanity.

 

[satine]

So Tuktamysheva fights until the very end, receiving a resounding standing ovation at her national championships for her Olympic bid performance, and loses a probable Olympic medal due to Sweden’s incompetence. Nice.

How can you blame Sweden for incompetence? Yes, they were delayed, but wasn't this just a routine test? Why would there be any more urgency to test this particular sample? If it was clean, there would have been no issue. Instead of pointing the finger at Elizaveta(who was fourth overall for eligible skaters, remember), Valieva, her team, and RUSADA, you're instead going to go with blaming... Sweden?

 

[Amei]

Calalang / Johnson were banned from competing at Worlds 2021, and the banned substance turned out to be in her eyelash serum. She was cleared 8 months later. By the same token, Kamila should be excluded from the Olympic Women's competition pending final disposition of the matter.

My understanding of that situation is similar to that of the Bobrova situation from 2016 Worlds - the athlete was banned and appealed the situation, the Feds decided to forego sending the athletes to the following competitions in case they did not win their appeals because those results would be vacated.

Why she should be, if they already have a 'proof' it was in her eyelash serum too. To start a debate from the premise that someone must be guilty is beyond my recognition and my knowledge and my views on humanity.

They didn't have immediate proof - she tested positive and then she went through her products with a fine tooth comb and found the problem.

 

[beachmouse]

I’m sorry but in the FS world, Valieva not competing at the Oly would be a scandal.

We likely would have got told she had Covid rather then failed a drug test.

Covid positives are pretty tightly proctored. If someone wanted to go that route, a digestive condition like norovirus or e. coli infection is one of those things that can be 24-36 hours where you only leave bed to go to the bathroom followed by either a quick recovery (in such cases, WADA would allow hydration ivs to prevent muscle cramping) or something that lingers enough to cause additional unfortunate withdrawls.

Sun Yang's first ban he was banned only for 3 months. I'm surprised how this happened for him, does anybody know the grounds? Maria Sharapova was banned for 15 months.

Either some sort of justification is accepted so then no ban. Or there is a ban but it depends on how long. A 6 week ban would expire 4th February and not impact the Olympics. On the other hand it can be 6+ months.

Sun Yang's first doping positive was something of a scandal because it was issued pretty much in secret- their anti-doping agency told FINA and FINA sat on it rather than disclosing it to the rest of the world and his camp was allowed to date the suspension so that he missed no major competitions. It was seen as a case of FINA giving preferential treatment to the Chinese federation and one of a string of controversies and bad behavior events that made him the villain of the swimming world even before the smashed vial incident. Guy assaulted a Brazilian swimmer in the training pool at the Kazan world championships and FINA just shrugged and mumbled something about crowded lane conditions.

As a long time swimming fan, just had to let off a little steam about him. I found the Chinese swimming delegation infinitely easier to cheer for in Tokyo since he was not allowed to be there.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

How can you blame Sweden for incompetence? Yes, they were delayed, but wasn't this just a routine test? Why would there be any more urgency to test this particular sample? If it was clean, there would have been no issue. Instead of pointing the finger at Elizaveta(who was fourth overall for eligible skaters, remember), Valieva, her team, and RUSADA, you're instead going to go with blaming... Sweden?

If Valieva was positive for this substance during their nationals which was the Olympic trials then Liza was 3rd among eligible skaters.

I believe the it’s been determined that the tests were delayed and the reason given was Covid and the lab in Sweden being understaffed. If the tests needed to be done by Olympics it seems incompetent to push it the very last hour to the point to where we are now talking about stripping medals when the team in question could have put up any other woman and won. I agree with the poster above who said that if the lab was that backlogged they should have notified someone that the tests couldn’t be completed in time, then maybe the samples could have been transferred.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

They didn't have immediate proof - she tested positive and then she went through her products with a fine tooth comb and found the problem.

I was talking about Kamila, if they have a proof that something similar happened with what happened to Jessica then of course they will appeal against it

 

[norwegianfairytale]

Yes of course the delay is because of covid. But Sweden's covid strategy has nothing to do with it. As I said before a lot of healthy people were home from work in January because they had been in contact with a suspected covid person. Like any other country Sweden didn't escape this wave 3 we had starting december. We had 900.000 new cases in dec/jan. Compare that to Norway who had 500.000 new cases with half the population. In a weird way, we can say that the restrictions worked against us in this case, as a lot of healthy people couldn't go to work.

That said, I think it is unforgivable from Sweden's side to delay this that long. Wada has a 20 days limit working process from sample to results, and Rusada works under the same principle. Sweden should have flagged that they couldn't deliver in time because they were short of staff. I expect an explanation from Sweden.

This is actually what the Government have found out in Norway as well, the restrictions are working against us because of a lot of healthy people are at home, so that´s why they are removing all sort of isolation for close contacts and healthy people, and soon even isolation for covid positive as long as they are asymptomatic. The difference is that Norway always had those isolations restrictions from the beginning, but Sweden only isolated close contacts quite recently I think?

There is basically no difference between Norway and Swedens covid strategy now, but my comment was related to that 2 years ago Sweden had a total different approach and more spread in the early stage of the pandemic before vaccines, so the health workers have been more exposed over time and Sweden could therefore have a higher rate of health workers that quit, got burned out or got long covid since 2020. The relevance was that it could still affect the staff situation along with the covid restrictions as some health workers aren´t easy resources to find.

You make a very valid point though why Sweden didn´t ask someone else to take over the testing. Question is, could there be something about transportation after a long time?

 

[Magill]

The best thing that can happen is for an actual investigation to take place and if they find that the adults dosed Kamila (I say if but my personal opinion is that it must be them), disband the entire school. The athletes can move onto other coaches and it will blow over. I think people will move on and forget and perhaps this is the best thing for them.

Unfortunately I am afraid that the ultimate purpose of this investigation is to aquit those around her and not to find the truth.

 

[Erin9]

Has this been posted yet?

I just hope there is no massive cover up concocted where they let Kamila take the fall.

I can see them getting her parents to say "I accidentally gave it to my daughter" in order to save the powerful people involved.

Jackie Wong (@rockerskating) Tweeted:
Developing: Tass reports that RUSADA has "launched a probe in regard to the staff of" Kamila Valieva. "The prime aim of this investigation is to reveal all details of possible violations of anti-doping rules in the interests of ‘a person in defense.’"
https://t.co/fxKUaASyRW https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1492169377592061953?s=20&t=bXgUlNP4aYzFukBAeMc9_Q

That thought crossed my mind too.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

So Tuktamysheva fights until the very end, receiving a resounding standing ovation at her national championships for her Olympic bid performance, and loses a probable Olympic medal due to Sweden’s incompetence. Nice.

I mean, ROC would have still found a way to field Kamila and assure the best prospects, even though Tukt could very easily have won the SP and likely the FS too. Sad though that she wasn't able to make it, but I think in a sense at least she isn't caught up in this mess. Especially having taken meldonium before it was banned the flack she would get....

 

[gsk8]

Has this been posted yet?

I just hope there is no massive cover up concocted where they let Kamila take the fall.

I can see them getting her parents to say "I accidentally gave it to my daughter" in order to save the powerful people involved.

Jackie Wong (@rockerskating) Tweeted:
Developing: Tass reports that RUSADA has "launched a probe in regard to the staff of" Kamila Valieva. "The prime aim of this investigation is to reveal all details of possible violations of anti-doping rules in the interests of ‘a person in defense.’"
https://t.co/fxKUaASyRW https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1492169377592061953?s=20&t=bXgUlNP4aYzFukBAeMc9_Q

Yes. I reported it yesterday as soon as the statements came out. As mentioned earlier, I'm also keeping a timeline for reference in the OP of this thread.

https://twitter.com/goldenskate/status/1491984919534489621

https://twitter.com/goldenskate/status/1492016271243812877

https://twitter.com/goldenskate/status/1492208399861309441

 

[mrrice]

I'm so happy to see that Kamila is receiving support from skaters around the world, not just from Russia. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/wi...-of-a-doping-scandal/ar-AATKrN6?ocid=msedgntp

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Unfortunately I am afraid that the ultimate purpose of this investigation is to aquit those around her and not to find the truth.

If you are talking about her coaching team i very doubt that is the case. Because Eteri would never get the award for best coach by ISU. Now, if you are talking about the country she represents, they may have a problem with it.

 

[Amei]

While we don't know the outcome of the current situation, my thoughts on some of the 'procedural' things that I have found out through this situation

• A drug test can take 7 weeks to get completed. <<< This is unacceptable, the governing bodies over this need to implement a mandate for tests to be completed in a timely fashion, if the lab it was sent to originally cannot complete it then arrangements to another lab should be made.
  • Had a strict control been in place about tests being processed then a lot of this mess would have been avoided: Valieva wouldn't be dealing with this in the highest profile event of the year for literally most of the world she would either be cleared of the issue or not at the Games, subsequently the entire Team event wouldn't be in limbo for who knows how long.
• The country an athlete represents can lift a ban <<< For international events, this needs to be changed at least for doping bans - honestly it would be a shock if the country didn't lift the ban.
• Drug tests are completed inside an athlete's country unless there are extenuating circumstances. <<< Why is this even an apple that's getting dangled down?
• WADA/ITA/IOC (not sure specifically the org.) apparently distinguishes under-16 for doping offenses. <<< If an athlete could potentially be given a lesser punishment for a violation because of their age, that age should not be eligible for major international competitions in sports with a 'junior' division at the very least.

 

[Magill]

If you are talking about her coaching team i very doubt that is the case. Because Eteri would never get the award for best coach in that case. Now, if you are talking about the country she represents, they may have a problem with it.

I don't quite get what you mean, sorry. Could you please clarify?

 

[Erin9]

I'm so happy to see that Kamila is receiving support from skaters around the world, not just from Russia. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/wi...-of-a-doping-scandal/ar-AATKrN6?ocid=msedgntp

Yes, I am too. I feel so sorry for her.

 

[Amei]

While bad practices, near nervous breakdowns and leaving the ice in tears are normal for Russian girls as we have seen from past competitions, still - what can you expect?
It's just too much psychologically. The Olympics alone are arguably too much on the psyche of a child, but this? She is the headline of newspapers all over the world. And that picture of her covering her face while being harrassed by 10 reporters trying to go to practice...No adult skater could withstand this. And she is 15.

I understand that Russia will go all the way to fight for her participation and that she wants that too, but considering how low the chances are of them winning, it feels quiet cruel to draw it out like this. It's becoming a sort of "if you have to sacrifice the lamb, at least do it quickly and don't make it suffer" scenario for me.

And people were saying Valieva wasn't Lipnitskaia, this feels like deja vu of that situation.

 

[Jontor]

You make a very valid point though why Sweden didn´t ask someone else to take over the testing. Question is, could there be something about transportation after a long time?

Well, the Rusnats was at Christmas. This is the biggest holiday in Sweden like in many countries. In Russia it happens a week later. Who knows what kind of delays was just in transportation and the delivery from both Russia and Sweden. That's why I think it's important that Sweden gives us a statement with the correct timeline here.

There is a point to be made that it should also be in Rusada's interest to get the results quick. But I don't know how these tests work. Maybe they just get notified if there is something to report and Russia thought that everything was clear.

 

[el henry]

Why she should be, if they already have a 'proof' it was in her eyelash serum too. To start a debate from the premise that someone must be guilty is beyond my recognition and my knowledge and my views on humanity.

1. Your personal belief is not, and should not, influence whatever system is set up for evaluation. If the system says, you test positive and you are out until otherwise proven, that is the system.

2. Coaching awards have nothing to do with whether a coaching team violated the WADA prohibitions, unless those granting the awards consulted with WADA in advance.

ETA: 3. Speculation about motivation is just that: speculation. Again, no influence on what is happening or should happen.

I do not know what happened and I am not opining on that. Just that these considerations should not affect what will happen.