Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[bigsisjiejie]

At this point, the only honorable way out is for Valieva to swallow her pride and voluntarily pull out of the Ladies competition. Even if she truly believes she did nothing wrong, and even if Russia the ROC is successful in getting her in, the competition will be under a dark cloud that will forever envelop both these Games and her entire career.

Being the bigger person and setting her own ambitions aside to do what's best for the sport is the best way to assure that she still has a future in it.

I actually agree that this is a solution that has the best chance of defusing the situation AND preserving her future in skating. But very difficult for a 15-year old to initiate and execute. If the CAS rules in her favor, she competes under a cloud that will never go away regardless of her placement (but worse if she medals). If CAS rules against her, she is suspended in disgrace. This is a no-win situation for her.

The objective here is not too save her though. I'm more inclined that they're trying to work out how to bury her to save the mighty ones.

At 15 and presumably leading the life that she does, I cannot expect Kamila to have the frame of mind to do what's best for HER.

Also agree with this. I think she may not have access in Beijing to anyone who can give her trustworthy advice, and who has HER well being at the forefront. Most of the adults who have access to her have their own self-preservation agendas, and are sadly using her as a human shield.

Per my above paragraph, if I had a pipeline to this young woman to impart adult wisdom (based on the school of Hard Knocks), I would tell her to withdraw, get on a plane back home to her family asap, and start looking for a new coach and training location, while waiting for the final disposition of her case. I expect that whatever happens, Team Tutberidze is about to turn very toxic for her.

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

I am just adding my thoughts, but mostly my feelings to this thread. I really adore Kamila’s skating and I think she has such a lovely personality. I really thought she would be the next ‘face’ of the sport that we all love so dearly, and I truly hope she still is. I’m not a fan of the Eteri camp, but I have always admired their consistency. I think they need to be fully investigated, and I am extremely hurt as a fan to see Kamila go though this. She didn’t need any substances, it wouldn’t give her jumps like that. The adults in charge of supplying and administering these should be deeply ashamed of themselves and held fully accountable as an example. Kamila on the other hand, having demonstrated her abilities, potential and artistry for so many years, should in my opinion be allowed to finish her Olympics. I can almost guarantee that she likely has little to no idea of what she is asked to take, and I doubt that she is the only member of that training club on the same medication. If she is removed from the Olympics and the other two girls are allowed to compete with their coaching team, it will be a great injustice. As a sport, we should not let her take the fall for this because we all know how elite level training works. Her decisions are not her own, and most of them she is unaware of. She would have won this Olympics without the quads, if we are assuming all of the quads from that training camp have been achieved by similar means.

 

[beachmouse]

...and she was tested positive DURING the tournament. Kamila was not tested positive after ("during") euorpean championships nor the team event (at least until now nothing different was communicated). The cases are NOT comparable.

Kamilla's test was in-competition during her country's national championships, so also during a tournament and very much compatible

 

[Jeanie19]

Yes that's him his name is Filip something. He was the team doctor of Russia's Olympic rowing team where six athletes tested positive for banned substances.

And just today I learnt that he was also the one behind Bobrova's positive test in 2016 that kept her and Dima out of Worlds.

To make it even worse, I hear he's not Sambo/Crystal's Team doctor but actually the team doctor for all the Russian skaters. So has he being going around slipping all of them drugs this whole time? He clearly doesn't seem to think doping rules apply to him so who knows?! He seems closest to Team Crystal so maybe he is only their doctor. I don't know, but if not Crystal isn't just under scrutiny now, but all of the skates of Russia!

Bravo Rus Skating Fed. WTF were they thinking?

He's creepy looking. I thought he was a bodyguard.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

. If she is removed from the Olympics and the other two girls are allowed to compete with their coaching time, it will be a great injustice. As a sport, we should not let her take the fall for this because we all know how elite level training works. Her decision are not her own, and most of them she is unaware of. She would have won this games without the quads if we are assuming all of the quads from that training camp have been achieved by similar means.

But what about the injustice to the other competitors? Pawn of adults or not, allowing her to compete would be putting the needs of the one who didn't play by the rules over the needs of the many who did.

 

[jenaj]

I'm not sure if posted before but:

World Anti-Doping Code

www.wada-ama.org

This is the Code that the Beijing 2022 Olympics and ITA refer to. For there to be No Significant Fault or Negligence, an athlete 16 and over would have to prove that neither they or the person/entity administering the medicine was at Significant Fault or Negligence. According to 10.6.1.3 for a Protected Person they just have to prove that they committed No Significant Fault or Negligence.

I don't see how Valieva wouldn't qualify for No Significant Fault or Negligence for following the advice of the National Team Doctor. There is nothing more that can be expected of her personally. In that circumstance it suggests a reprimand or upto a maximum of 2 years. I don't know what the reasoning for having to invoke a ban would have to be under those circumstances.

But that won’t mean she won’t be suspended provisionally. There isn’t time for a full hearing. That will come later and she may well be cleared.

 

[DK74]

Kamilla's test was in-competition during her country's national championships, so also during a tournament and very much compatible

Thanks for the clarification. I only read the overview on page 1. It seems, this important message is missing there (but is in the first message in the timeline).
But still not the same. Kamila can only be disqualified from Russian Nationals and banned from that point on. Than she was not eligable to participate in Olympic Games.

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

But what about the injustice to the other competitors? Pawn of adults or not, allowing her to compete would be putting the needs of the one who didn't play by the rules over the needs of the many who did.

We are kidding ourselves if we assumed she is using PEDs and the others aren’t. Yes, it is wrong if the others are allowed to continue competing. They are under the same coaching team. How else do you think those drugs would have ended up in Kamila’s system, if not by accident of course. It needs to be investigated fully before she is removed from the Olympics.

 

[silveruskate]

But that won’t mean she won’t be suspended provisionally. There isn’t time for a full hearing. That will come later and she may well be cleared.

I agree. I'm not sure since CAS is on-site for a reason so I think there might be time. But even if there isn't it says that you can overturn a provisional suspension if it's likely that you will win the case.

 

[zanadude]

I mean, you’ve answered the question really.

They in fact must want their skaters to have an advantage and as such, employ this Dr.

The mistake is hiring someone who’s been caught twice, they should have found someone who hasn’t gotten caught.

We don't know how many times he's gotten away with it. For all we know, he has a 99% success rate, which would be pretty impressive.

 

[skycastles]

How is everyone processing this on a personal level?

It took me quite a few days to get my head around it and I'll still be processing this with every development.

I absolutely adore Kamila so my biggest challenge was to process how I felt about her previous victories, about the other skaters at that school and how all this affects my other favorites such as Rika and Bradie.

I agree that I'm having a hard time processing it. I've just always assumed that figure skating and doping didn't go together, that taking drugs would affect your performance even if it could theoretically help with jumps of something. Having such a serious scandal at the olympics with one of the top skaters is a lot to take in and it really sheds a different light on Valieva's dominance this season. And it makes you wonder, how deep does this go? Was it just that one competiton? Did she do it at Euro's? There are still so many question marks about everything and you don't want to rush to any conclusions but it's really changing how I view ladies skating these past few years.

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

I agree that I'm having a hard time processing it. I've just always assumed that figure skating and doping didn't go together, that taking drugs would affect your performance even if it could theoretically help with jumps of something. Having such a serious scandal at the olympics with one of the top skaters is a lot to take in and it really sheds a different light on Valieva's dominance this season. And it makes you wonder, how deep does this go? Was it just that one competiton? Did she do it at Euro's? There are still so many question marks about everything and you don't want to rush to any conclusions and it's really changing how I view ladies skating these past few years.

When the quad revolution began I was so worried. Worried about the the direction of the sport, and more importantly the health and safety of the athletes. Once I had seen them stabilise past their very early teens, I became less worried, but this makes me question it all. Not to mention the number of athletes who have walked away from the sport because they felt like they couldn’t remain competitive.

 

[rain]

I'm not sure if posted before but:

World Anti-Doping Code

www.wada-ama.org

This is the Code that the Beijing 2022 Olympics and ITA refer to. For there to be No Significant Fault or Negligence, an athlete 16 and over would have to prove that neither they or the person/entity administering the medicine was at Significant Fault or Negligence. According to 10.6.1.3 for a Protected Person they just have to prove that they committed No Significant Fault or Negligence.

I don't see how Valieva wouldn't qualify for No Significant Fault or Negligence for following the advice of the National Team Doctor. There is nothing more that can be expected of her personally. In that circumstance it suggests a reprimand or upto a maximum of 2 years. I don't know what the reasoning for having to invoke a ban would have to be under those circumstances.

The reasoning for a ban is this: due to her doping, Valieva has gained a competitive advantage over the other, clean, athletes. You cannot hold a legitimate competition where one athlete is allowed to start the race a metre ahead of the start line that everyone else has to start behind. It's immaterial if she is complicit in her own doping, and that she is a minor — she has been given an unfair advantage over the other athletes and thus must not be allowed to compete. It's not just about letting the poor, woebegone child (raise the age limit, please) compete. It's about all of the other competitors who have to step on the ice in the same event.

Now, the fact that she is a minor should absolutely be taken into account when calculating the length of any ban. I'd posit that she should be banned for the rest of the season, then start afresh (and presumably without drugs) in the next season.

Does it suck for her that she misses what is likely to be her only shot at the Olympics, given how Russian women's figure skating goes? Absolutely. Should she be allowed to compete? Absolutely not. If she is it permanently tarnishes not just this women's event (anyone who is not side-eying past victories for all of the Sambo-70 athletes has their heads in the sand), but figure skating in the Olympics as a whole. Nobody in their right mind could possibly consider her a legitimate winner at this point.

I completely agree with the post above that suggests she should gracefully bow out on her own, but I highly doubt that's going to happen. The arrogance of those involved (and no, I don't mean the skater) makes that seem highly unlikely.

 

[skatedreamer]

Nah, this sport is and always has been dirty.

Huh? If you really believe that, what are you even doing here?

But I have to admit that this is making me wonder about a few things in a way that I never have before.

 

[Amei]

...and she was tested positive DURING the tournament. Kamila was not tested positive after ("during") euorpean championships nor the team event (at least until now nothing different was communicated). The cases are NOT comparable.

How will you explain to the world, that a negative tested athlete will be banned because of a positive test weeks ago, maybe caused by a wrong or not communicated medication (for example)? The whole doping complex is a minefield. One wrong medicine, even common cold medicine, can cause a positive test. A collegue of mine was in the national squad in Karate decades ago and tested for doping from time to time. He told me stories about how carefully he has to handle with medicine and showed me the impressive and long list of known but "forbidden" medicine. Literally he was not able to use any medication used by "normal" people as standard treatment without the risk of being tested positive. This could also happen to Kamila. And this could explain, why it is so complicated for all parties to come to a decission in time.

No one is going to care, all that is getting heard is athlete, failed drug test, had this test been processed in a more timely fashion 2-4 weeks ago (if not before then) she is likely not at the Olympics. We do know that RUSADA heard an appeal by Valieva's team and lifted the suspension so there is perhaps a reasonable explanation, but while RUSADA weirdly has the authority to do it, we can all admit they are probably not the most impartial people towards a Russian athlete. Though I also think in favor of the situation is that Russia is 10 months out from their ban from the Russian flag at major events, would they really do something to risk it getting extended at this point?

Additionally, Radducan tested positive for pseudoephedrine which is performance enhancing, Valieva tested positive for a drug that based on what's been said aids recovery, so while it may not enhance performance the day she's competing if this is something that she's taking/taken then its giving her an advantage with quicker or better recovery than her competitors.

 

[silveruskate]

From my perspective I want huge reform of the rules themselves, the age eligibility to be increased as it's likely going to be, and then heavy sanctions on the doctors/coaches/system involved. I want Valieva to compete as she is not to blame for what these others have done to her.

 

[mrrice]

We are kidding ourselves if we assumed she is using PEDs and the others aren’t. Yes, it is wrong if the others are allowed to continue competing. They are under the same coaching team. How else do you think those drugs would have ended up in Kamila’s system, if not by accident of course. It needs to be investigated fully before she is removed from the Olympics.

This might not be true. I remember Rudy Galindo talking about how he couldn't celebrate his win in 1996 until he "Peed In A Cup" I assume he meant that he had to pass his drug test. I can only imagine that as soon as Nathan started landing all his quads that he was tested and tested again by the US committee. We saw from Kostner's situation that the panel will follow an athlete to the ends of the earth to make sure they're clean. Roger Federer was on vacation and they found him at his hotel and tested him in front of his wife. Humiliating.

 

[prorussian fan]

I am just adding my thoughts, but mostly my feelings to this thread. I really adore Kamila’s skating and I think she has such a lovely personality. I really thought she would be the next ‘face’ of the sport that we all love so dearly, and I truly hope she still is. I’m not a fan of the Eteri camp, but I have always admired their consistency. I think they need to be fully investigated, and I am extremely hurt as a fan to see Kamila go though this. She didn’t need any substances, it wouldn’t give her jumps like that. The adults in charge of supplying and administering these should be deeply ashamed of themselves and held fully accountable as an example. Kamila on the other hand, having demonstrated her abilities, potential and artistry for so many years, should in my opinion be allowed to finish her Olympics. I can almost guarantee that she likely has little to no idea of what she is asked to take, and I doubt that she is the only member of that training club on the same medication. If she is removed from the Olympics and the other two girls are allowed to compete with their coaching team, it will be a great injustice. As a sport, we should not let her take the fall for this because we all know how elite level training works. Her decisions are not her own, and most of them she is unaware of. She would have won this Olympics without the quads, if we are assuming all of the quads from that training camp have been achieved by similar means.

So for you, it is fair that none of the TT girls compete just because you assume that there is a doping regime in the team and they all take prohibited substances?
I remind you that Anna and Sasha have been in the elite for more than three seasons and all their tests in and out of competition have been clean.

 

[Greengemmonster]

When the quad revolution began I was so worried. Worried at the the direction of the sport, and more importantly the health and safety of the athletes. Once I had seen them stabilise past their very early teens, I became less worried, but this makes me question it all. Not to mention the number of athletes who have walked away from the sport because they felt like they couldn’t remain competitive.

Yes I've been running around saying "It's done, they've found a way to keep their quads, stop being so jealous and negative"

And now I feel so foolish and stupid for believing that.

 

[Tinymavy15]

So does that means that Elizaveta Tuktamysheva will replace Kamila Valieva in individual event ?

That would be the best way for this terrible story to go. But according to the rules as they were explained with the men, and Vincent having to pull out due to his covid test, if a skater was not in China for the team event they could not be called in later. If that's not the case, someone please correct me. Regardless, Russia won't pull Kamila from the event unless they are absolutely forced to. What a distraction for all the ladies skaters, really.