Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[zanadude]

I agree that I'm having a hard time processing it. I've just always assumed that figure skating and doping didn't go together, that taking drugs would affect your performance even if it could theoretically help with jumps of something.

I don't think that there's any sport that doping couldn't improve performance in. Having a slight extra bit of endurance or lung capacity would be a benefit to any figure skater late in the programs. Even previously mentioned curling features tremendous effort during times of sweeping, which can be huge in a sport where a millimeter can mean the difference between winning and losing.

 

[Amei]

From my perspective I want huge reform of the rules themselves, the age eligibility to be increased as it's likely going to be, and then heavy sanctions on the doctors/coaches/system involved. I want Valieva to compete as she is not to blame for what these others have done to her.

Unfortunately its not that simple, assuming she was incapable of refusing the substance or was told it was something else that was legal the fact remains she has had a positive drug test for a banned substance, this isn't just about what's right or fair by Valieva but fair and right by all of the competitors in the Team event and in the ladies event.

 

[silveruskate]

This might not be true. I remember Rudy Galindo talking about how he couldn't celebrate his win in 1996 until he "Peed In A Cup" I assume he meant that he had to pass his drug test. I can only imagine that as soon as Nathan started landing all his quads that he was tested and tested again by the US committee. We saw from Kostner's situation that the panel will follow an athlete to the ends of the earth to make sure they're clean. Roger Federer was on vacation and they found him at his hotel and tested him in front of his wife. Humiliating.

Trimetazidine has a short half-life so it's perfectly possible to evade a positive result. Athletes only have to specify a specific slot even for out-of-competition testing. With that knowledge and careful dosing they could get around it IMO.

 

[Tavi...]

An addendum: I think the worst thing was that the American government partially funded that whole episode.

Cash is fungeable, so one could make the argument that USPS took food out of the mouths of children to offset the costs of that cycling team's doping.

Whenever someone mentions government funding of sports programs, I remember this experiment.

Are you referring to the fact he skated for the Postal team or something else? FYI that was a marketing arrangement with a sports marketing company called Tailwind Sports, not with Armstrong directly. There was no intent to develop the sport of cycling. It was to develop brand awareness for Postal.

Also remember that Postal doesn’t get money from Congress so it’s not correct to say there was government funding of cycling. In many ways USPS is more like a private company than a government entity, and in this case what they were doing was no different than Toyota sponsoring Nathan or Alysa.

 

[silveruskate]

Unfortunately its not that simple, assuming she was incapable of refusing the substance or was told it was something else that was legal the fact remains she has had a positive drug test for a banned substance, this isn't just about what's right or fair by Valieva but fair and right by all of the competitors in the Team event and in the ladies event.

Well this is subject to the rules and I want the decision to be in full accordance with the rules. From what I've read in the Code, within the rules as written it is most justified to allow Kamila to compete. But her RusNats result for sure would be nullified.

 

[Amei]

The IOC weather report, the Q&A session is usually where we get details about the ongoing situation:

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

I will be injured soon because I'm trying to keep with weird people in this thread.

Sorry but I reserve the right to question everything about this “school” at this point, including which past results and accomplishments if any have been achieved fairly. The suggestion that *we* are somehow the unreasonable ones in this scenario is gaslighting at its finest, though I realize that’s the usual MO.

 

[Seruleane]

We are kidding ourselves if we assumed she is using PEDs and the others aren’t. Yes, it is wrong if the others are allowed to continue competing. They are under the same coaching team. How else do you think those drugs would have ended up in Kamila’s system, if not by accident of course. It needs to be investigated fully before she is removed from the Olympics.

I think the poster is referring to non-Eteri skaters. Wakaba, Rika, and Kaori all come to mind as strong but not necessarily super-consistent skaters who could have potentially medaled or won prior events if they were competing against Eteri skaters who maybe weren't as consistent because they couldn't do all the training they typically do. Perhaps if doing multiple quads and 3A weren't the new gold standard, other skaters (Rika) would not have been injured. Who knows? It's a lot of what ifs and speculations, but if I were one of the Japanese skaters, I would be angry. Also, think about the PCS boost that many Eteri skaters got for consistent clean skates. If they weren't as consistent, the PCS difference may not have been as significant. I am a huge fan of many of the Russian skaters, in fact many from Team Tutberidze, so all of this makes me very sad and I am rethinking many of the prior competitions I watched. It was easy for me to dismiss critics of the team as "just jealous" but now I realize maybe I was being willfully naive, and not wanting to look too deeply into things. Regardless, I agree with the general sentiment here that Kamila is the victim here, and while I want them to be lenient with her, I also think there should be some serious repercussion, as it is just not fair to the other athletes who have been clean. Her coaching team (or whoever is behind this) needs to be punished, and a thorough investigation needs to be done.

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

So for you, it is fair that none of the TT girls compete just because you assume that there is a doping regime in the team and they all take prohibited substances?
I remind you that Anna and Sasha have been in the elite for more than three seasons and all their tests in and out of competition have been clean.

Exactly. Why would they give PEDs to a 15 year old and not the other two older athletes, who are both recovering from injury too, (assuming the results are correct and there hasn’t been some terrible mix up or mistake)? If Kamila is removed from the Olympics, then her team need to be removed from the Olympics. Don’t get me wrong I love both Sasha and Anna, but it’s not reasonable for us to assume Kamila is taking PEDs during training and they are not. They literally have the same coaches and doctors.Testing negative over the past couple of years is nothing, one year wasn’t even a full season and figure skaters aren’t tested as regularly. Nathan Chen has barely been tested compared to athletes at his level in other disciplines.

 

[mrrice]

Trimetazidine has a short half-life so it's perfectly possible to evade a positive result. Athletes only have to specify a specific slot even for out-of-competition testing. With that knowledge and careful dosing they could get around it IMO.

I don't think that's true anymore. Serena Williams has spoken about how she was shocked when the testers showed up on her sisters doorstep while she was visiting. It was not Venus who also plays, this was a different sister and she lived in California while Serena lives in Florida. They are ruthless

 

[zanadude]

If Kamila is removed from the Olympics, then her team need to be removed from the Olympics.

Completely disagree with this. We have proof of a substance in Valieva's test. We have no proof of anything else for any other ROC member. They should be punished if they directly benefitted from Valieva's performance, such as in the team competition. But they have both the legal and moral right to compete on their own.

 

[beachmouse]

While I would never assume any Olympic level sport is perfectly clean, my assumption before this week would have been that most cases, were pretty rare and like Maria Sotskova, where diuretics were likely used to help keep the last kilo or two off so they could jump easier.

 

[Ziotic]

Completely disagree with this. We have proof of a substance in Valieva's test. We have no proof of anything else for any other ROC member. They should be punished if they directly benefitted from Valieva's performance, such as in the team competition. But they have both the legal and moral right to compete on their own.

I think they meant the coaching team, as the adults responsible for her. Not specifically the members of the team event.

 

[Amei]

Exactly. Why would they give PEDs to a 15 year old and not the other two older athletes, who are both recovering from injury too, (assuming the results are correct and there hasn’t been some terrible mix up or mistake)? If Kamila is removed from the Olympics, then her team need to be removed from the Olympics. Don’t get me wrong I love both Sasha and Anna, but it’s not reasonable for us to assume Kamila is taking PEDs during training and they are not. They literally have the same coaches and doctors.Testing negative over the past couple of years is nothing, one year wasn’t even a full season and figure skaters aren’t tested as regularly. Nathan Chen has barely been tested compared to athletes at his level in other disciplines.

So if 1 skater from Ice Dance Montreal tests positive, are we good to remove all the other athletes that train there? After all according to your post here - that's the standard, if 1 is doping than they all must be doping regardless of their negative drug tests

 

[prorussian fan]

Exactly. Why would they give PEDs to a 15 year old and not the other two older athletes, who are both recovering from injury too, (assuming the results are correct and there hasn’t been some terrible mix up or mistake)? If Kamila is removed from the Olympics, then her team need to be removed from the Olympics. Don’t get me wrong I love both Sasha and Anna, but it’s not reasonable for us to assume Kamila is taking PEDs during training and they are not. They literally have the same coaches and doctors.Testing negative over the past couple of years is nothing, one year wasn’t even a full season and figure skaters aren’t tested as regularly. Nathan Chen has barely been tested compared to athletes at his level in other disciplines.

Honestly seeing this kind of meaningless comments is what causes so much hate. IOC please don't search anymore, in this researchers forum you have all the answers you need, there is a regime in TT so you have to eliminate all Russian figure skating team. Better yet, ISU don't let any Russian girls compete again because anyone who can land a quad or 3A is doping, doesn't matter if she's not from TT school.

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

Completely disagree with this. We have proof of a substance in Valieva's test. We have no proof of anything else for any other ROC member. They should be punished if they directly benefitted from Valieva's performance, such as in the team competition. But they have both the legal and moral right to compete on their own.

Sorry, I don’t mean the ROC. I mean her immediate team of coaches, doctors and those who train in the same training camp. Although, it does raise larger issues around the ROC being allowed to compete, but that’s for the powers that be to figure out.

 

[Amei]

I think they meant the coaching team, as the adults responsible for her. Not specifically the members of the team event.

Well people are specifically talking about removing Shcherbakova and Trusova even while acknowledging that they have negative drug tests.

 

[gravy]

There would be no debate an anti-Doping violation occurred. So with Valieva I 100% expect the RusNats result for her to be voided. But the Europeans and Olympics especially (I'm biased since I am happy for her) but I think there is a case that it would not be in accordance with the rules to place any type of ban.

Also note that Raducan is not a Protected Person, for that you have to be under 16 which Valieva is.

It's funny, of all these competitions, I 100% think the RusNats result will NOT be voided. That's basically Russia admitting they cheated. Valieva can be handed anywhere from a slap on the wrist to 2 years for testing positive due to her protected person status.

Valieva will be 16 in 2 months. I really doubt CAS will be swayed by that difference in age. It's sort of ridiculous... right now Valieva is morally ignorant but in two months she will magically be morally responsible for anything in her body. IMO, if you're old enough to compete in the adult athletic division (seniors) you should be considered an adult with matters like these.

I'm reminded of Carolina Kostner who was banned for 18 months for lying about her boyfriend doping; she never touched the medications. Should nothing happen to Kamila, it's basically sending the message that you will get away with doping up athletes below 16.

 

[satine]

The IOC weather report, the Q&A session is usually where we get details about the ongoing situation:

Thank you for the link! Right now, they're inquiring how many roast duck dishes the athletes are eating. Not exactly what I was imagining

 

[Mathman]

To me, the bottom line is that this situation allows the Russian sports establishment to play the perpetual victim (poor us, everybody's always picking on us) and the defiant bad boy (sure we dope our athletes. What are you going to do abpout it, suckers) at the same time.