Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[starlight97]

I could not be more torn between

1. Wanting Kamila to be allowed to skate because this is not her fault, she deserves her chance and I believe she would still be better than any of the other countries' skaters even had she not been given this drug. Even if you take away all her Ultra-C elements, she is still much stronger than any of the other ladies who struggle with the much more basic jumps and elements. And she already is better than the other two Russians who most likely were given it too.

2 Wanting the responsible adults to be punished, so it sets a precedent and does not continue to happen. Which is not likely to occur if she is allowed to skate.

3. Wanting the non-doped skaters to feel like they had a fair chance and their potential medal not to be overshadowed by this scandal.

4. Wanting all of this to just be over since whoever ends up winning this will not have their rightful moment of glory anyways. Most certainly not Kamila if it was to be her, neither the other two Russian girls, and not even a non-Russian since all anybody will talk about will be that they only won cause the strongest skater was disqualified.

 

[whatif]

Again doper or not doper, guilt or innocent personally, mistake or not, IT DOES NOT MATTER for this competition. Substance in her system means remove her immediately!

 

[whatif]

News are reporting that CAS decision is postponed until tomorrow earliest.

 

[Mista Ekko]

I could not be more torn between

1. Wanting Kamila to be allowed to skate because this is not her fault, she deserves her chance and I believe she would still be better than any of the other countries' skaters even had she not been given this drug. Even if you take away all her Ultra-C elements, she is still much stronger than any of the other ladies who struggle with the much more basic jumps and elements. And she already is better than the other two Russians who most likely were given it too.

2 Wanting the responsible adults to be punished, so it sets a precedent and does not continue to happen. Which is not likely to occur if she is allowed to skate.

3. Wanting the non-doped skaters to feel like they had a fair chance and their potential medal not to be overshadowed by this scandal.

4. Wanting all of this to just be over since whoever ends up winning this will not have their rightful moment of glory anyways. Most certainly not Kamila if it was to be her, neither the other two Russian girls, and not even a non-Russian since all anybody will talk about will be that they only won cause the strongest skater was disqualified.

I fear that, like many of us, you're gonna be needing heartache medication by the end of this
(just make sure it has no possible side effects).

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

US pairs skater Calalang cleared of drug violation

In elite figure skating, makeup can be as important a tool as a boot and blade. It also can sideline an Olympic contender.

apnews.com

In early summer, UFC fighter Rob Font, who fought in May, had his ban dismissed when USADA found that chlorphenesin, a non-prohibited cosmetic preservative found in shampoos and lotions, can also metabolize into 4-CPA. Calalang had been using similar products...

So it wasn't the case, it was because there are substances that create the same metabolites. Which is also the case of trimetazidine BTW, there are other substances that can cause positive test.

“At the end of June, her attorney, Howard Jacobs, notified Calalang about potential changes in rules regarding 4-CPA to be voted on at the end of September. If those regulations passed, it would likely result in no violation for her. And USADA suggested she remain in the case until then. In return, USADA offered to lift her provisional suspension, allowing Calalang to compete and receive funding immediately.”


Honestly how would someone prove whether it was the real substance or something that just ‘metabolized like it’?

If you read further it sounds like the suspension was lifted because of changes regarding the banned substance, not because she was able to prove it was cosmetic.

 

[brakes]

I heard about the cases you mentioned. But I don't understand the question. Does that express your meaning about the sport (or this particular sport) as a whole?

Anya is doing the sport she likes. yes, it puts the athlete into the dangerous field, but seriously you are in a dangerous field whenever you get on top of something. You see it in ballet, art, politics, among top managers and big guns. The only way how to be secured from that is not to excel in anything.

It expresses my meaning about ladies Olympic individual competition - Kamila should not be allowed to skate there.
Whether she knew it or not, there is big probability her training process this season was boosted by prohibited substance. If you remember, she skated poorly at the test skates and then her form started rising abruptly. There is simply too many question marks for me to accept her presence and outcomes on Olympic ice as fair play anymore.

 

[Scott512]

If CAS rules as expected that KV is banned from the Olympics can the Russian Olympic committee file an immediate appeal to that which could allow her to skate in the short program?

Or in the 6 or 7 days between the finding out of the positive dope test and the beginning of the short program are they re testing other samples to see if this trace substance is somehow there when it's re tested?

I think I read a couple days ago that the ioc's handling of a minor athlete who test positive for doping versus and adult athlete that test positive for doping is very different and to my understanding less harsh. Is that happening here with this 15 year old girl? Of course organizations like the ioc cannot control social media hysteria and anger from around the world.

I mean the IOC and even the ISU are out to ban her immediately. Or did they just want to get the final decision on KVs suspension to be made by CAS?

One of my concerns now is that is this like a 1 time deal about the failed doping test which could result in a lighter banishment for Kamila or are they looking for a trail of a longer process of doping which of course would probably give her a 2 year suspension effectively ending her competitive career?

 

[Fried]

That headache medicine was mentioned as not forbidden.

"I read that..." without citing the source has zero information content.
But in the end it doesn't matter. The Kreml has pledged full support. I think a fairy tale is already being written. A new, adventurous explanation, of which every halfway rational person knows that it is lied. Exactly the same as in the comparable cases listed above. It is disgusting. Here as there. The most disgusting thing, however, is how those who are responsible for this will get out of it safe and carry on. And the fans of the great trainer here in the forum support exactly that. Bravo!

 

[Mista Ekko]

I think I read a couple days ago that the ioc's handling of a minor athlete who test positive for doping versus and adult athlete that test positive for doping is very different and to my understanding less harsh. Is that happening here with this 15 year old girl? Of course organizations like the ioc cannot control social media hysteria and anger from around the world.

Well she's a minor so she won't be charged with anything, and I think I also understood that any kind of sanction
in handeling her will be more lenient than an adult athlete indeed, maybe someone could clarify.

but as far as her allowance to compete so shortly after the discovery of the banned substance in her system plus
the ability to keep her recent results I don't see why there should be any difference between a minor and an adult.

 

[Sjs5572]

According to this Vladtime article from Dec 2019:

Алина, прости! Тутберидзе может вернуть Загитову из-за допингового скандала с ТЩК

Косторная и Щербакова рискуют нарваться на многолетний бан WADA. Если международное антидопинговое агентство поставит под сомнение результаты тестов, сданных Алёной и Аней в РУСАДА, то российскую фигурку ждёт мощный скандал с обязательными дисквалификациями. Спасая сборную, Тутберидзе может пойти

vladtime.ru

Anna and Aliona were bring doped as of 2019. Alina and Sasha weren't because their parents wouldn't permit it. Aliona later had to stop doping due to kidney damage. Eteri would rely on Alina and Sasha to compete in events where WADA was testing, since their urine was clean. All the girls could compete in events where RUSADA was in charge. This article implies that the parents definitely knew about the doping.

As an aside, I have heard that the pressure to dope impelled Trusova's father to transfer her to Plushy.

 

[zanadude]

If CAS rules as expected that KV is banned from the Olympics can the Russian Olympic committee file an immediate appeal to that which could allow her to skate in the short program?

Who would they appeal to? The Swiss Supreme Court? Why would they agree to look into the case of an underaged Russian skater?

Other than that, CAS is the highest authority in the world of sports. What they say goes.

 

[Warwick360]

There was also a case of male athlete claiming the prohibited substance came from kissing the prostitute night before and female athlete claiming testosterone coming from ekhem... fluid she received from her partner during sex. Both proclaimed innocent, I'm not making it up.

Is this the sport realm you want Anya to participate in?

If we're talking about the same case, it was Richard Gasquet from tennis. And I don't think she was a prostitute; apparently some random lady in the club. The drug in question was cocaine. And the sad thing is...I even know the name of the random girl which he uttered.....Pamela. I give up on my mind remembering such random stuff.

 

[NaVi]

Who would they appeal to? The Swiss Supreme Court? Why would they agree to look into the case of an underaged Russian skater?

Other than that, CAS is the highest authority in the world of sports. What they say goes.

I think they appeal to CAS itself. I think they only listen to the arguments of the IOC et al while they are making their appeal and if the ROC wants their voice to be heard they have to make an appeal if CAS rules in the IOC et al's favor.

 

[Vemvane]

Honestly how would someone prove whether it was the real substance or something that just ‘metabolized like it’?

If a prohibited substance is a metabolite of a legal substance, there should be other metabolites of the legal substance found in the sample alongside the prohibited substance. Quoting an earlier post of my own from this thread, which contains links to research papers on trimetazidine and lomerizine:

As for trimetazidine, it is possible for it to be detected when no intentional doping took place. I am attaching links to the abstracts of two papers on this issue.

The first, from 2015, points out that trimetazidine is a metabolite of the permitted drug lomerizine, so positive results for trimetazidine must be treated carefully: Analytical detection of trimetazidine produced by metabolic conversion of lomerizine in doping control analysis.

The second paper, from 2018, looks at the metabolites of lomerizine, and notes that in cases of a positive test result for trimetazidine, the co-occurrence of a metabolite bis-(4-fluorophenyl)-methypiperazine is indicative of lomerizine use. On the other hand, if this specific metabolite is absent, but trimetazidine is present, then lomerizine is not the source of the trimetazidine. Abstract here: Lomerizine, trimetazidine and bis-(4-fluorophenyl)-methylpiperazine in human urine after oral administration of lomerizine dihydrochloride. So there are ways to distinguish between the use of the permitted and the banned substances.

 

[florin]

If Kamila is innocent and Eteri is innocent and everybody else is innocent, then we're left with magic and conspiracy:
- trimetazidine magically appeared in Kamila's body (what evil creature was casting the spell?) or
- some evil, anti-Russian conspirator replaced/falsified her doping test.

Seriously...

That is, the version of accidental, unconscious, contamination - the use of a product in which a prohibited substance somehow got into - you completely exclude from consideration? Why?

 

[zanadude]

I think they appeal to CAS itself. I think they only listen to the arguments of the IOC et al while they are making their appeal and if the ROC wants their voice to be heard they have to make an appeal if CAS rules in the IOC et al's favor.

I...don't think that's how it works. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I'm pretty sure that both sides will be able to present their case at this hearing.

By the way, according to this article, it says the case would be handled by the legal disputes office, and not the anti-doping unit. That tells me that the doping itself is not in question, just how this particular case should be handled. Likely if she were already of age, she would already be on her way back home.

 

[brakes]

That is, the version of accidental, unconscious, contamination - the use of a product in which a prohibited substance somehow got into - you completely exclude from consideration? Why?

Common sense and lack of naivity.

If we lived in world of reason, a presence of prohibited substance would result in immediate and irrevocable suspension for specific period of time. If you are that unlucky to get those from sexual acts or similar 'accidents' and 'contaminations', you better stay home on your sofa to be safe and keep away from black cats crossing your way...

I'm just fed up with whole national teams of ski runners suffering from asthma, enough is enough!

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

According to this Vladtime article from Dec 2019:

Алина, прости! Тутберидзе может вернуть Загитову из-за допингового скандала с ТЩК

Косторная и Щербакова рискуют нарваться на многолетний бан WADA. Если международное антидопинговое агентство поставит под сомнение результаты тестов, сданных Алёной и Аней в РУСАДА, то российскую фигурку ждёт мощный скандал с обязательными дисквалификациями. Спасая сборную, Тутберидзе может пойти

vladtime.ru

Anna and Aliona were bring doped as of 2019. Alina and Sasha weren't because their parents wouldn't permit it. Aliona later had to stop doping due to kidney damage. Eteri would rely on Alina and Sasha to compete in events where WADA was testing, since their urine was clean. All the girls could compete in events where RUSADA was in charge. This article implies that the parents definitely knew about the doping.

As an aside, I have heard that the pressure to dope impelled Trusova's father to transfer her to Plushy.

Is this source in any way reliable? I don’t understand how Eteri could pick and choose events at this level. They all did JGP, GP, GPF, EC, JWC, WC.

 

[4everchan]

Article on the topic from Reuters
Interview with IOC member Dick Pound.

Pretty much : the IOC tried to help ROC to overcome doping issues.

However ROC does not admit fully the issue and appeals every case.

He talks also about the drug used, saying it's not a contaminated supplement but a highly potent drug and that ROC shouldn't have exposed Kamila to that risk.

He says that allowing the athletes to compete under the ROC was probably not strict enough and that perhaps it is time for the ROC to take a "timeout" from the Olympics.

Russia may need Games "timeout" over doping, says IOC's Pound

Russia may need an Olympic "timeout" as doping issues resurface after figure skating prodigy Kamila Valieva tested positive for a banned substance at the Beijing Winter Games, senior International Olympic Committee (IOC) member Dick Pound said.

www.reuters.com

 

[Sjs5572]

Is this source in any way reliable? I don’t understand how Eteri could pick and choose events at this level. They all did JGP, GP, GPF, EC, JWC, WC.

The article was probably referring to post-grand prix season. It's possible that doping was suspended in time for Grand Prix events only.