Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[florin]

Common sense and lack of naivity.

Common sense just says that this whole situation is not worth a damn. Valieva is an amazing figure skater and we have seen her amazing performances over the past few years. If you haven't completely "changed your shoes in the air" (although the speed of your metamorphosis is impressive) you will agree that the reasoning "all these years she was stuffed with this magical drug (which is undoubtedly capable of turning any Karen Chen into Valieva) and that's why she became so awesome" is disgusting, sick nonsense.

If we discard all this formalism and speak from the point of view of common sense, you will not be able to explain to me a simple question - why would Valieva take this "doping"?

 

[brakes]

Common sense just says that this whole situation is not worth a damn. Valieva is an amazing figure skater and we have seen her amazing performances over the past few years. If you haven't completely "changed your shoes in the air" (although the speed of your metamorphosis is impressive) you will agree that the reasoning "all these years she was stuffed with this magical drug (which is undoubtedly capable of turning any Karen Chen into Valieva) and that's why she became so awesome" is disgusting, sick nonsense.

If we discard all this formalism and speak from the point of view of common sense, you will not be able to explain to me a simple question - why would Valieva take this "doping"?

Because she's been going through puberty and her test skates were alarmingly poor for starters.

 

[florin]

Because she's been going through puberty and her test skates were alarmingly poor for starters.

And taking "doping", which presumably allows you to slightly increase the duration of training ** will solve problems with coordination caused by changes in the proportions of bodies when growing up? Do you think this is how it works in figure skating?

**(although I will continue to assert that this is a theoretical construction and most importantly this is a theoretical construction that came from athletics, running, swimming - sports where athletes reach the physiological limit, in figure skating this is not the limiting factor)

 

[Magill]

I don't know the situation now, but around three years ago there was some inside info that Sasha's dad had his own opinions on what she should and shouldn't take. Which obviously didn't make Sasha any more popular at TT, since it's a totalitarian group where you don't question the coaches.

Nor do I know the situation but it is hard not to notice that Sasha has been BOTH the most inconsistent of Eteri girls, in fact being famously inconsistent and unpredictable, while at the same time she's the ONLY skater who seemed to survive leaving Eteri team practically untouched. She did not lose anything, nor her (in-)consistency, nor her jumps, nor her stamina, nothing apart from the FED love. Just makes me wonder now if it is has anything to do with her father being a former athlete himself and a bit more knowledgable about many things in pro sport (and known for not being intimidated by her coaches...)

 

[flanker]

It expresses my meaning about ladies Olympic individual competition - Kamila should not be allowed to skate there.
Whether she knew it or not, there is big probability her training process this season was boosted by prohibited substance. If you remember, she skated poorly at the test skates and then her form started rising abruptly. There is simply too many question marks for me to accept her presence and outcomes on Olympic ice as fair play anymore.

There are skaters who skate poorly at test skates and do well in the season a vice versa. Then there are skaters who do well in training but not so well in competition a vice versa. And skaters who do well at one competition and bad at anoter. That doesn't prove anything but maybe some bias. As for Kami precisely, whatever she skated at the test skates, she did not lack stamina and breath which maybe would be the things where some substances could help, but certainly not in precision and execution of elements. Problems with stamina can be observed after a long absence and/or injury, but not generally. Whatever Kamila achieved in her life it was through hard work and determination. Sofa judgements "she was too quick to improve to gain it without doping assistance" mean nothing for me.

 

[florin]

Because she's been going through puberty and her test skates were alarmingly poor for starters.

Also, in your opinion, in such an unstable sport as figure skating (in the sense that "ice is slippery"), one unsuccessful performance is already enough to suspect a figure skater?

 

[brakes]

And taking "doping", which presumably allows you to slightly increase the duration of training ** will solve problems with coordination caused by changes in the proportions of bodies when growing up? Do you think this is how it works in figure skating?

Read literally every single interview of adult female skaters explaining how they prevailed coordination's growth problems - they needed more training time to adjust.

 

[Jaana]

Poppy seeds aren't forbidden either, I'm saying that as far as being able to actually compete here
or keep her recent results it wouldn't make a difference.

She could be completely cleared of any charges and so could her team (as they would possibly be then ones
charged due to her being a minor), but they can't be "proven innocent", not fully imo.

This article info was mentioned on FSU-forum

What we know about Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva's alleged positive drug test

Russian figure skating sensation Kamila Valieva has reportedly tested positive for a banned drug. Here's what we do -- and don't know -- so far.

www.espn.com

 

[4everchan]

And taking "doping", which presumably allows you to slightly increase the duration of training ** will solve problems with coordination caused by changes in the proportions of bodies when growing up? Do you think this is how it works in figure skating?

**(although I will continue to assert that this is a theoretical construction and most importantly this is a theoretical construction that came from athletics, running, swimming - sports where athletes reach the physiological limit, in figure skating this is not the limiting factor)

Hypothetically, of course ... How does one achieve coordination? Through repetition and muscle memory. That takes substantial training. Doping is not only used to gain strength or muscle mass. The drug of concern here allows for better recovery, which allows for more training... for more repetition... and then it allows to achieve better coordination. This would be my hypothesis.

 

[Jaana]

"I read that..." without citing the source has zero information content.
But in the end it doesn't matter. The Kreml has pledged full support. I think a fairy tale is already being written. A new, adventurous explanation, of which every halfway rational person knows that it is lied. Exactly the same as in the comparable cases listed above. It is disgusting. Here as there. The most disgusting thing, however, is how those who are responsible for this will get out of it safe and carry on. And the fans of the great trainer here in the forum support exactly that. Bravo!

What we know about Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva's alleged positive drug test

Russian figure skating sensation Kamila Valieva has reportedly tested positive for a banned drug. Here's what we do -- and don't know -- so far.

www.espn.com

 

[flanker]

Read literally every single interview of adult female skaters explaining how they prevailed coordination's growth problems - they needed more training time to adjust.

And while they took that training time clean, Kami must have gained that training time because of doping. Right. Double standard crystal clear.

It is as I said above, when you achieve a particular level every success is a proof of your guilt per se. At least in the eyes of the others.

 

[NaVi]

He talks also about the drug used, saying it's not a contaminated supplement but a highly potent drug and that ROC shouldn't have exposed Kamila to that risk.

It wasn't a "supplement" I don't think, but....

CAS agrees contamination caused Russian Olympic doping

LAUSANNE, Switzerland (AP) — The Court of Arbitration for Sport has lifted a provisional ban imposed on one of the two Russian athletes who tested positive for doping at the Pyeongchang Olympics.

CAS said Monday that a contaminated product caused bobsled driver Nadezhda Sergeeva's positive test for trimetazidine in South Korea in February.

The CAS anti-doping panel created for the 2018 Games had disqualified Sergeeva from her 12th-place finish.

Sergeeva's case with the panel continues, but any final sanction can be reduced to take into account the seven-month provisional ban she already served.

In April, a Russian federal medical official said "organizational fecklessness" led to Sergeeva's mother, a doctor, giving her unapproved heart medicine containing trimetazidine.

CAS agrees contamination caused Russian Olympic doping

LAUSANNE, Switzerland (AP) — The Court of Arbitration for Sport has lifted a provisional ban imposed on one of the two Russian athletes who tested positive for doping at the Pyeongchang Olympics.

www.yahoo.com

[edit]

Hmm.... this article says something slightly different...

"The athlete demonstrated that the adverse analytical finding of the very low concentration of the prohibited substance (as quantified by the Olympic doping laboratory in Seoul) was likely to have been caused by an unsuspicious contaminated supplement which she had obtained from an official and supposedly reliable source and which had been prescribed by the team doctor," the IBSF said today.

Russian bobsleigh athlete accepts eight-month ban after Pyeongchang 2018 drug failure

Russian bobsleigh athlete Nadezhda Sergeeva has accepted an eight-month ban after failing a drugs test at the Pyeongchang 2018 Winter Olympics.

www.insidethegames.biz

 

[brakes]

Whatever Kamila achieved in her life it was through hard work and determination.

So did Sasha and Anya, just with no trimetazidine in their system.

 

[Scott512]

Well she's a minor so she won't be charged with anything, and I think I also understood that any kind of sanction
in handeling her will be more lenient than an adult athlete indeed, maybe someone could clarify.

but as far as her allowance to compete so shortly after the discovery of the banned substance in her system plus
the ability to keep her recent results I don't see why there should be any difference between a minor and an adult.

The difference in doping is a minor would not know what they were doing in reality while an adult would. I hope that's taken into consideration for this immediate decision and the long term decision on this phenomenal girl's future.

I think it's also time the parents to talk to their kids in any country at any sport and say if they give you something other than a vitamin C and you don't know what it is text or call us immediately before you take it.

I am hoping this is a one time or fluke incident with Kamila. Maybe a long term investigation would prove that out or prove otherwise. I just do not want to see her competitive career ruined at 15. My worst fears are like a 24 months suspension for her which would is for which would essentially end her competitive career. even a 12 months banishment for her would be impossible to ever recover from.

I just hope this 15 year old girl is getting the emotional support that she needs and I'm very sorry she doesn't have any of her loved ones with her at this tough time. I think that is sad.

 

[brakes]

And while they took that training time clean, Kami must have gained that training time because of doping. Right. Double standard crystal clear.

There had been restricted amount of time to adjust - only few months to Olympics.

 

[florin]

Read literally every single interview of adult female skaters explaining how they prevailed coordination's growth problems - they needed more training time to adjust.

Understand a simple thing: figure skating is a highly coordinated sport. To simplify- skaters compete through their brains. I assure you, Jason Brown's physical form is quite sufficient to jump quad (have you seen his fantastic 3F?), and he can't jump it steadily because of his brains. So, while there is no doping that will help your brain to jump quad. Everything else is formalism and theoretical constructions of fat-assed doctors in the offices.

 

[4everchan]

It wasn't a "supplement" I don't think, but....

CAS agrees contamination caused Russian Olympic doping

LAUSANNE, Switzerland (AP) — The Court of Arbitration for Sport has lifted a provisional ban imposed on one of the two Russian athletes who tested positive for doping at the Pyeongchang Olympics.

www.yahoo.com

[edit]

Hmm.... this article says something slightly different...

Russian bobsleigh athlete accepts eight-month ban after Pyeongchang 2018 drug failure

Russian bobsleigh athlete Nadezhda Sergeeva has accepted an eight-month ban after failing a drugs test at the Pyeongchang 2018 Winter Olympics.

www.insidethegames.biz

this article talks about another case. We cannot assume that the cases here are similar or not. We will have to wait for the decision given in this case. Unfortunately for Kamila, her doctor doesn't have a good track record AND should know about what drugs are allowed or not.

 

[Mista Ekko]

What we know about Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva's alleged positive drug test

Russian figure skating sensation Kamila Valieva has reportedly tested positive for a banned drug. Here's what we do -- and don't know -- so far.

www.espn.com

Thanks for the link! so 2 questions arise for me:

1) If WADA has issued an advisory 4 years ago that Trimetazidine could falsely appear due to use of
this migraine medication, what athlete would go out on a limb and use that specific one unannounced, at the risk of failing tests?

2) If that lab has found Trimetazidine and had this advisory from WADA, would they have not double checked
the diagnosis using the specified instructions anyway? they definitely had a long time to do it.

 

[NaVi]

this article talks about another case. We cannot assume that the cases here are similar or not. We will have to wait for the decision given in this case. Unfortunately for Kamila, her doctor doesn't have a good track record AND should know about what drugs are allowed or not.

That's the whole point, it's the exact same drug and you can't say that contamination could not be a cause for testing positive when contamination has shown to be a cause before.

 

[SkatingIsLife]

https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Ad_Hoc_Media_Release_Beijing_6.pdf

Not sure if this has been posted here already. Looks like the decision by CAS will only be on Monday.