Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[4everchan]

Too many hypotheses per square centimeter for me

But let's take a different angle. OK, let's assume that these logical constructs work. But this logic implies that is not the kind of doping that works immediately (I threw a pill in my mouth and won the Russian Championship). Systematic use is required (I've done 30 trainings, but they're like your 35. Therefore, you are, relatively speaking, "in the October form", and I am already in the "November form", so I win)

Do you seriously believe that they would take such a serious risk for these hypothetical advantages? And how to bypass a random check? The half-life of the drug is 7-12 hours, but here everything depends on the sensitivity of the laboratory if they can detect 1/64 of the peak concentration, then you need to stop for six periods, and if 1/1024 then for 10 periods (3-5 days). Do you think the doping agency will warn you a week in advance that it will take a random test from you?

those are not questions for me but for doping specialists.

 

[flanker]

From "L'Equipe", the main sports newspaper in France:
"Tested positive for trimetazidine before the Olympics - an information revealed only on Friday -, the young Russian skater will be heard by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) on Sunday (13:30, French time = 8:30pm Beijing time). The decision of the CAS is expected the next day, Monday, on the eve of the beginning of the short program."

On one hand it should be considered right she will give her testimony, but so close to the event it is very unconfortable.

 

[florin]

those are not questions for me but for doping specialists.

Wait, judging by this thread, everyone here is a specialist in doping cases. I thought you were one of them.

 

[Fanof]

https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Ad_Hoc_Media_Release_Beijing_6.pdf

 

[[email protected]]

There will be still russian nationals which under the current development will probably officially become the most interesting event.

I confess I'm figting with myself to leave the whole sport behind. It should bring you joy, but it doesn't now. The only thing that still keeps me here is that I don't want all the fans would leave them girls alone and so I can't either.

I understand what you mean and I have similar sentiments. But I cannot keep going on controlling my anger over the stupidity and impotence of Russian sports officials. Women's figure skating is the most obvious candidate for "hit where it hurts most". It's one of very few if not the only object for national pride in sports. 50% of their time and efforts had to be directed to protect it.

I shall "open the can of worms". It's not the same case like we had with one famous US athlete protected by TUE who showed that she can't perform without strong PE substances. Kamila did not need this obscure pill taken god knows when to skate like she skates. And those stupid officials had to watch out to eliminate any even distant possibility for controversy. And also knowing that she will be the most likely object for the attack they had to have a well-prepared battle plan including open and loud communication with the world.

What do we have in fact? They were "taken by surprise" yet another time. Either silence or sentiments like "we support Kamila" - the sentiments which are OK for friends, relatives, and fans but not for professionals. They are not professionals - they are incompetent good for nothing folks.

 

[Jungle2]

We should recall why Russia is participating in the Olympics as a ROC without using its own national flag and anthem.

We should read the news about Russian athletes from Sochi, CAS ,

Casual fans do not even know this is going on. I bet if I ask my mother about it she'll say "what?"

And that’s the problem that I mentioned -figure skating has lost its popularity and I see zero reason why it will be revived .

 

[4everchan]

Wait, judging by this thread, everyone here is a specialist in doping cases. I thought you were one of them.

I have eyes to read WADA rules. I have followed many cases as well. I am not a scientist and if I am fine discussing theorical questions, their practical applications escape me.

 

[florin]

I understand what you mean and I have similar sentiments. But I cannot keep going on controlling my anger over the stupidity and impotence of Russian sports officials. Women's figure skating is the most obvious candidate for "hit where it hurts most". It's one of very few if not the only object for national pride in sports. 50% of their time and efforts had to be directed to protect it.

I shall "open the can of worms". It's not the same case like we had with one famous US athlete protected by TUE who showed that she can't perform without strong PE substances. Kamila did not need this obscure pill taken god knows when to skate like she skates. And those stupid officials had to watch out to eliminate any even distant possibility for controversy. And also knowing that she will be the most likely object for the attack they had to have a well-prepared battle plan including open and loud communication with the world.

What do we have in fact? They were "taken by surprise" yet another time. Either silence or sentiments like "we support Kamila" - the sentiments which are OK for friends, relatives, and fans but not for professionals. They are not professionals - they are incompetent good for nothing folks.

I think you're being overly strict with officials. Look, here's a scenario for you - one of the athletes at the Russian Championship performs a diversion against Kamila (for example, changes water bottles, or something else). This is not a very likely scenario, but everything happens in life. And now all this is like a terrible hammer blow to the head for everyone - the federation, the coaches, the athlete. And no "battle plans" are able to help you in any way.

 

[flanker]

I understand what you mean and I have similar sentiments. But I cannot keep going on controlling my anger over the stupidity and impotence of Russian sports officials. Women's figure skating is the most obvious candidate for "hit where it hurts most". It's one of very few if not the only object for national pride in sports. 50% of their time and efforts had to be directed to protect it.

I shall "open the can of worms". It's not the same case like we had with one famous US athlete protected by TUE who showed that she can't perform without strong PE substances. Kamila did not need this obscure pill taken god knows when to skate like she skates. And those stupid officials had to watch out to eliminate any even distant possibility for controversy. And also knowing that she will be the most likely object for the attack they had to have a well-prepared battle plan including open and loud communication with the world.

What do we have in fact? They were "taken by surprise" yet another time. Either silence or sentiments like "we support Kamila" - the sentiments which are OK for friends, relatives, and fans but not for professionals. They are not professionals - they are incompetent good for nothing folks.

With this I completely agree, but it doesn't help the kids when people leave them because of incompetence of some and hate of others. Let's be honest, those who just now say "let's protect them against the incompetent adults around won't be cheering for them in the future as they did not in the past.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

That she tested plenty of times clean is a strong indication that it is an error/matter of contamination/response to another substance that causes the same metabolical reaction. I won't base my conclusions on hints like "Shabotova spoke anbout doping" and all the nonsense people here consider supportive evidence no matter how many times it was disproven.

And how many others have initially tested clean only to be eventually caught? Micro dosing is a thing. Timing the doses is a thing.

You keep saying is it so unbelievable an athlete can be this good? Honestly as good as Kamila? As consistent as Kamila? Yes. It was honestly always unbelievable to me but my mind never even considered doping because that just wasn’t a thing in “our” sport or so I thought. But now a test has come back and it’s insane to me to immediately jump to the conclusion that it has to be some mistake or conspiracy without questioning anything.

Sasha and Anya also worked hard and they are also very talented. They follow the same training regiment. But Kamila’s consistency and the quality of these elements is unreal superhuman. Now we have this result we are just supposed to write it off as nothing?

 

[flanker]

OK, for now I think I will leave this threat and wait for the afternoon the 14th.

 

[[email protected]]

I think you're being overly strict with officials. Look, here's a scenario for you - one of the athletes at the Russian Championship performs a diversion against Kamila (for example, changes water bottles, or something else). This is not a very likely scenario, but everything happens in life. And now all this is like a terrible hammer blow to the head for everyone - the federation, the coaches, the athlete. And no "battle plans" are able to help you in any way.

No, I don't agree. As I said women's figure skating should have been singled out and the national team should have been further singled out. There had to be several projects like making sure that there are no "diversions" . For example, communication with those who may be responsible that they will be identified and severely punished, etc. There should be parallel inofficial tests in local labs. If something indeed was found in December they had to know about it not on February, 8. Too difficult? They claim that there was a state-sponsored big time program of interfering with hundreds of samples, with "cocktails", and "holes in the walls". They even claim, well, it's too political. Having a parallel drug testing for 3 key girls is a no-brainer for "state-sponsored" sport which is a true national priority. Apparently, they did not do it.

 

[solani]

That she tested plenty of times clean is a strong indication that it is an error/matter of contamination/response to another substance that causes the same metabolical reaction. I won't base my conclusions on hints like "Shabotova spoke anbout doping" and all the nonsense people here consider supportive evidence no matter how many times it was disproven.

That she tested clean many times before only means, that her urine was free of any prohibited substances or their metabolites many times. Or that the labs only tested for certain substances or haven't got tests in place for all prohibited substances.
I tried to find the time it takes for the urine to be free of TMZ or it's metabolites. Luckily, I couldn't find it. Because cheaters would love to know that. But a doctor who "assists" athletes on the medical front, should know exactly how long it takes. This doctor might not be very competent in that regard.
I wrote that before and I'll do it again: Hanyu only had negative tests. So does Chen. Are they clean? We don't know. We only know that there tests were all negative.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

When did we start to view children, American or Russian, as commodities?

Eteri's entire operation is about viewing young girls as 'commodities' or 'products' coming off an assembly line. Eteri said as much herself in a documentary about her camp and her training methods.

Obviously, the sport has been condoning Eteri's methods by virtue of consistently praising and rewarding her numerous prodigies/ commodities, that like many products and trends in our current culture, don't last very long. These young prodigies are not nurtured or trained to last long. Nor are their feelings and emotions as human beings ever taken into consideration or treated as important.

The ultimate irony in all of this is the fact that Kamila Valieva is extremely talented. I have always felt that unnecessary bells and whistles were being forced upon her that for me, have taken away from my enjoyment of her performances. If they would just nurture her talent in a normal fashion without all the excessive demands and OTT gimmicks (not to mention harmful and unlawful drug intervention), Valieva would still soar, but in a more natural and freely expressive way. Perhaps also in a more long-lasting way careerwise.

 

[florin]

Sasha and Anya also worked hard and they are also very talented. They follow the same training regiment. But Kamila’s consistency and the quality of these elements is unreal superhuman. Now we have this result we are just supposed to write it off as nothing?

And so, step by step, the opinion of the crowd came to the fact that trimetazidine increases coordination and psychological stability.

An amazing drug - you've been practicing a little longer (there is no restriction with possible injuries and microtraumas in our imaginary world, of course) and you're already an Olympic champion.

 

[NaVi]

Sasha and Anya also worked hard and they are also very talented. They follow the same training regiment. But Kamila’s consistency and the quality of these elements is unreal superhuman. Now we have this result we are just supposed to write it off as nothing?

Valieva has an insane limb to torso ratio that seems to give her some advantages.

 

[Fried]

Valieva has an insane limb to torso ratio that seems to give her some advantages.

Did you just come up with that theory yourself?

 

[skatesofgold]

Eteri's entire operation is about viewing young girls as 'commodities' or 'products' coming off an assembly line. Eteri said as much herself in a documentary about her camp and her training methods.

Obviously, the sport has been condoning Eteri's methods by virtue of consistently praising and rewarding her numerous prodigies/ commodities, that like many products and trends in our current culture, don't last very long. These young prodigies are not nurtured or trained to last long. Nor are their feelings and emotions as human beings ever taken into consideration or treated as important.

Children have always been viewed as commodities. That's why we have child labor laws, at least in the United States. It used to be factories and coal mines. Now it's sports.

 

[Draculus]

If Kamila is innocent and Eteri is innocent and everybody else is innocent, then we're left with magic and conspiracy:
- trimetazidine magically appeared in Kamila's body (what evil creature was casting the spell?) or
- some evil, anti-Russian conspirator replaced/falsified her doping test.

Can you disprove the latter? Even Spokeswoman for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation (M. Zaharova) already made such assumption.

 

[Draculus]

But it doesn't have to be "magic" either. Quantum physics tells us that particles can pop in and out of existance. Perhaps they did so within the sample in a perfect C14H22N2O3 configuration right as the test was being conducted?

The acceptable rate of error in WADA standards (10^-5 ?) is much higher, you do not need to go deeper into the probabilistic nature of our world