Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[chuckm]

And again I ask you - do you think it is realistic that skaters will do without water consumption for about four days - a couple of days of training and two days of a short and free program?

It is during the competition---a period of about 3 hours max, and during a training session---probably no more than an hour, at least in the Olympics. They can drink water when they are not on the ice and not about to be on the ice. Do I think that's wise and reasonable? Obviously not. Those are Eteri's rules, not mine.

at a press conference after the Russian Championship 2021 (when Shcherbakova won for the third time), Kamila, Sasha and Anna drank bottled water very often. It was obvious that they needed it. But after all, all this happened after a very exhausting FS.

Yes, of course----water is allowed after a competition. But never during the competition when the skater is waiting to perform---and the Russian skaters are usually among the last competitors.

 

[mrrice]

So, did you still drink something?

Are you aware, by the way, that people sweat, blow their noses?(look at the training videos) All this needs water

And finally, the girls need water to... excuse me... pee, for doping. After all, after the free program, athletes drink, do you agree? For example.

All this nonsense about water comes from that interview with Alina, where she said that she controls water consumption immediately before the skate on OG (that's how you said). But this is far from the fact that they do not drink water at competitions at all (and that was my opponent's ridiculous counterargument). In the end, I remind you that at the Olympics, doping officers requested a urine sample from Alina, she had to drink a lot of water (it was reported that she was so heavy that there were problems with training). But nevertheless, this did not prevent her from becoming an Olympic champion, right?

I most certainly am. Most dancers drank "Gatorade" it's a sports drink that contains sodium and is supposed to replace the salt that the body releases when it sweats for a long period of time. High Blood Pressure runs in my family and I was not allowed to drink Gatorade so, I used to drink unsweetened Green Tea. Some dancers just couldn't keep up with the limits and would literally hit the rest room and "Purge" just to make sure they could get into costume.

 

[florin]

It is during the competition---a period of about 3 hours max, and during a training session---probably no more than an hour, at least in the Olympics. They can drink water when they are not on the ice and not about to be on the ice. Do I think that's wise and reasonable? Obviously not. Those are Eteri's rules, not mine.

Yes, of course----water is allowed after a competition. But never during the competition when the skater is waiting to perform---and the Russian skaters are usually among the last competitors.

Well, that is, you do not deny that during the 4 days of the competition, the skaters still drink water. So, theoretically, Kamila could drink water into which someone, by malicious intent (this is, of course, a hypothetical statement), injected a pinch of a crushed tablet of this drug.

 

[TontoK]

By the way, before the Tokyo Olympics, RUSADA behaved rather harshly - athletes were not allowed to go to Japan even at the slightest suspicion of doping.

This is true, and it's also why this "sweet little angel girl" storyline is such a farce. Had that test come in a week earlier, ROC would have dumped her from the Olympic team without a second thought. If it had come three days earlier, she'd have never been allowed to skate in the Team Event and would have been sent packing immediately.

I guarantee that there would have been none of this "sweet innocent angel must be allowed to compete even though she tested positive" coming out of Russia. The timing of the drug report, immediately after she had competed in the Team Event, backed the ROC into a corner. Defend her to the hilt, or forfeit the Team gold.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

In recent years many cases have been found up to 8 years later because frozen samples have been re-tested. Some athletes got their medals up to 8 years after the actual competition. Which means that it's likely there are still medals to be handed out to new owners from the 2016, 2018 and 2021 games.

Well, unlike you, I am not a prophet, I do not look into the future so far and cannot see that even after 18 years Russia will still be to blame for everything.

But you are waiting in vain - now Russian doping tests are no longer marinated for years. On the contrary, WADA and especially USADA really wants to find something, but cannot. And out of all 46 medals "postponed" there were only 6 - again 4 from Sochi and two from 2010.

 

[florin]

No its not, there are a set of rules and a rule was broken.

This is an absurdist, puritanical rule. I don't care about him. And any sane person who appreciates figure skating should not care.

 

[LiamForeman]

So? No one is under any kind of obligation to speak in a language just because they know it.

I would probably refuse to be interviewed in any foreign language, especially if this is a worldwide controversy with legal implications. In America, every attorney tells their client "JUST SAY NO COMMENT!". And with a hearing disability she might be uncomfortable deciphering all the words and then misspeak. I would have just said "I have no comment and we should leave it at that". She's not involved in this. Her mother is. Imagine how worried/concerned Diana is right now with her mother and her friend/s. This was classless, IMO. Even if she is warrior for the bigger story to cause change, going after the daughter like this is wrong IMO.

 

[florin]

Liza just happened to be next in the line, it could have been someone else, anyone with quads and good artistry for that matter, that would have lost the olympic spot. Point is that the fairness in the competition is distorted, due to some athletes receiving an extra boost and some not. Again, I am not saying Kamila would not have won RN without her heart vitamins, but from a formal/legal perspective she got an unfair advantage. The law may be harsh and unreasonable but it is the law nonetheless, and it should have been followed.

Once again, she did not get any advantage if it was a one-time random intake of microdose. This is if you are interested in the truth, and not fanatical formalism.

 

[4everchan]

Really? Someone would have tampered her water bottle? WIth TMZ? (when there are tons of banned substances that are probably easier to get). I find these arguments show much more despair than anything. Kamila is definitely a victim... but most certainly not of a "competitor" or someone wishing her ill...

 

[florin]

Really? Someone would have tampered her water bottle? WIth TMZ? (when there are tons of banned substances that are probably easier to get). I find these arguments show much more despair than anything. Kamila is definitely a victim... but most certainly not of a "competitor" or someone wishing her ill...

Why not? At least there is a motive in this version. There is no motive in the version that Kamila deliberately took this "doping".

 

[matin calin]

if it was a one-time random intake of microdose.

no, it was a "micro dose" that was detected in the sample, how much she received is unknown, at this point at least.

 

[chuckm]

Well, that is, you do not deny that during the 4 days of the competition, the skaters still drink water. So, theoretically, Kamila could drink water into which someone, by malicious intent (this is, of course, a hypothetical statement), injected a pinch of a crushed tablet of this drug.

This happened during Russian Nationals, in Russia. So who could get close enough to the top Russian skater except her own training group? Or maybe Ted Barton?

 

[PyeongChang2018]

Limiting water intake is not at all new in sports.

This is a quote from Vanessa Atler (USA) who was, at one point, the best gymnast in the world and later trained under Valeri Liukin.

“I remember they said don’t drink water because it makes you look bloated,” she says. “And after workouts, Valeri’s wife would take me to a regular gym to work out on a treadmill."

 

[matin calin]

This happened during Russian Nationals, in Russia.

This is actually far from certain, given that it was only a trace of that medicine left in her system at the RusNats.

 

[TontoK]

This happened during Russian Nationals, in Russia. So who could get close enough to the top Russian skater except her own training group? Or maybe Ted Barton?

Chuck, you do realize you're conversing with someone more loyal to this particular individual skater and/or federation than to the sport as whole, right?

You are never going to convince this person with logic or facts that conflict with the artificial fantasy-reality that's been constructed.

 

[4everchan]

Why not? At least there is a motive in this version. There is no motive in the version that Kamila deliberately took this "doping".

So you are willing to buy that someone wants to win so badly that they would try to disqualify Kamila by giving them some pills but you are not willing to believe someone wants to win so badly (team doctor, coach, whatever) that they would try to give their athlete some "help" ?

I find the latter more plausible. Just my opinion.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

WIth TMZ? (when there are tons of banned substances that are probably easier to get).

Trimetazidine is freely sold in pharmacies, without a doctor's prescription. So accessibility has nothing to do with it

 

[florin]

no, it was a "micro dose" that was detected in the sample, how much she received is unknown, at this point at least.

Whatever.

1. The substance does not increase peak performance or peak endurance.
2. According to theoretical assumptions, it increases the performance of long-term loads (that is, increases the duration of intensive training) and accelerates muscle recovery. All this logic is questionable because it does not take into account the specifics of figure skating and clearly came from such sports as athletics, running, swimming and so on.
3. Hence the conclusion - the advantage (assumed) can only be given by systematic use.
4. This is highly unlikely due to the presence of random doping checks - the drug will not be able to disappear from the body in a few hours.
5. Ergo - it was a random one-time use that did not affect anything.
6. This whole situation is a triumph of absurdist formalism. Unfortunately, many people don't care about figure skating when there is an opportunity to crush "these Russians"

 

[Greengemmonster]

Trimetazidine is freely sold in pharmacies, without a doctor's prescription. So accessibility has nothing to do with it

In Russia?

It's not even approved here in Australia. My pharmacist friend says you can't get it even if you needed it.

 

[florin]

Really? Someone would have tampered her water bottle? WIth TMZ? (when there are tons of banned substances that are probably easier to get). I find these arguments show much more despair than anything. Kamila is definitely a victim... but most certainly not of a "competitor" or someone wishing her ill...

No. Easy is a common medicine. I even read that some people, after the whole situation with Kamila, conducted an experiment - they came to the pharmacy and bought this medicine without any problems.