Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups | Page 96 | Golden Skate

Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

You know I forgot about that suspension from 2000 or never even knew about it.

I'm worried about having KV's career saved at this point and that would be annoying to 12 months suspension. Anything more would be twice as devastating.
Can only think about how Rusfed would have covered the suspension with some injury, if the test was done within 10 days as usual. Since she's under 16, the suspension could have have been confidential. She wouln't have competed at euros, her suspension could have been really short and most importantly, her image could have been saved.

The only issue is if they had to take her Rusnat title and explain that.
 
This is just about the provisional suspension. I think the 20 day sample issue can be seen as a due process problem. Especially because without it there could have been an expedited hearing before the Olympics. From the Djokovic case I now know nothing should be taken for granted on these procedural issues. In reality I didn't even know this 20 day report was even a thing.
 
I've heard different things about the possibility of a WADA lab knowing the identities of the people giving them samples. I've heard that it's completely anonymous and I"ve heard they know things like the date the sample was taken and they know the age of who gave the sample and from that they can deduce who gave the sample. This WADA lab also analyzed Valieva's sample from Europeans before the sample from Russian Nationals which perhaps if they wanted to could help in identifying the sample from Russian Nationals.

I'm not saying for sure anything unbecoming or out of the ordinary happened, but some people are saying it's impossible for a WADA laboratory to know who gave the sample and I find that doubtful.

I also wonder, when were the other samples from Russian Nationals analyzed? It would be a bit weird if there were anomalies in how fast these were processed.
 
Unless they can prove she is still benefitting from the effects of the drug of 25/12 don't direct your fury at her judges. All fire and brimstone for the others but not her. Let her compete!
Their job isn't to prove whether she is benefitting or not. More likely their job is to prove if she took the banned substance knowingly or not.

You make it sound as if the arbitration has an axe to grind. Personally, I would have loved to see Valieva skate prior to this whole scandal, but as it is right now, I think throwing stones at those who are trying to maintain the integrity of the sport is anything but helpful.
 
Unless they can prove she is still benefitting from the effects of the drug of 25/12 don't direct your fury at her judges. All fire and brimstone for the others but not her. Let her compete!
Strongly disagree. The only way to let her compete if they can prove that the test was in fact a false positive or there is strong evidence. If this is the criteria for getting away with suspension then it will be too easy to get away with doping when it actually happens and it will keep those motivated to continue because they are not getting caught even with cases like this. Those who use doping will do everything to find the loopholes where it´s most likely that you won´t be caught. That you can´t find traces of doping afterwards doen´t mean they are not using it, but it could mean they know how to not get detected. This is why it has to be so strict, all though it will be horrible for the person under investigation if the person turns out to be temporary suspended but get´s cleared later.

I don´t know what is the truth in this situation but it would be very bad for a sport letting letting her compete in this case. It would be very unfair to the other athletes.
 
Their job isn't to prove whether she is benefitting or not. More likely their job is to prove if she took the banned substance knowingly or not.

You make it sound as if the arbitration has an axe to grind. Personally, I would have loved to see Valieva skate prior to this whole scandal, but as it is right now, I think throwing stones at those who are trying to maintain the integrity of the sport is anything but helpful.
Strongly disagree. The only way to let her compete if they can prove that the test was in fact a false positive or there is strong evidence. If this is the criteria for getting away with suspension then it will be too easy to get away with doping when it actually happens and and it will keep those motivated to continue because they are not getting caught even with cases like this. Those who use doping will do everything to find the loopholes where it´s most likely that you won´t be caught. That you can´t find traces of doping afterwards doen´t mean they are not using it, but it could mean they know how to not get detected. This is why it has to be so strict, all though it will be horrible for the person under investigation if the person turns out to be temporary suspended but get´s cleared later.

I don´t know what is the truth in this situation but it would be very bad for a sport letting letting her compete in this case. It would be very unfair to the other athletes.
No axes to grind. In other cases sure but Raducan was not banned at all just her results when the drug was in her system were nullified. Valieva is 15 so if she unknowingly took it I hope it's the same for her. And I'm happy for the rules to be changed but looking at the rules currently, if Valieva herself took it unknowingly it means No Significant Fault or Negligence end of. So then I don't like the idea of her being suspended for that long. This is my view.
 
Can only think about how Rusfed would have covered the suspension with some injury, if the test was done within 10 days as usual. Since she's under 16, the suspension could have have been confidential. She wouln't have competed at euros, her suspension could have been really short and most importantly, her image could have been saved.

The only issue is if they had to take her Rusnat title and explain that.
I also think that's something that would have happened it would have been a quiet suspension and she may have had that removed and going to the Olympics where she's tested negative for all we know as well as that Europeans and every other complication she's ever had.

The Russian Federation people or the people who are supervising this sample of cavies also have their fingerprints on this mess by not staying on top of things and making sure that sample got tested and if she wasn't at the Olympics they could have put Liza there and they still would have won the team gold medal easily like they did.
 
The Nadezhda Sergeeva case. She also took Trimetazidine and an 8 month ban while being an adult. But even bigger question, how did she get her provisional suspension lifted. It says something about proof of a contaminated product.
 
I've heard different things about the possibility of a WADA lab knowing the identities of the people giving them samples. I've heard that it's completely anonymous and I"ve heard they know things like the date the sample was taken and they know the age of who gave the sample and from that they can deduce who gave the sample. This WADA lab also analyzed Valieva's sample from Europeans before the sample from Russian Nationals which perhaps if they wanted to could help in identifying the sample from Russian Nationals.

I'm not saying for sure anything unbecoming or out of the ordinary happened, but some people are saying it's impossible for a WADA laboratory to know who gave the sample and I find that doubtful.

I also wonder, when were the other samples from Russian Nationals analyzed? It would be a bit weird if there were anomalies in how fast these were processed.
Well at the end there always have to be a way how to link a sample to a person. It is the same with "double-blinded" scientific studies. There has to be a way how to minimize the possibility of infliencing the result (e.g. when a medicine is tested, the workers who applicate the substance do not know whether they are applicating the effecive substance or placebo), while there always has to be a result that can be evaluated (aka there has to be a knowledge which patient accepted an effective substance ort placebo). In all this there are levels of quality, many studies were devaluated precisely because of insufficient level of impartiality.

When it comes to the testing lab, I am not from the brach so it is only estimation, but I presume it works roughly as this: the test smaples are "anonymized" through some system (like I guess there is some computer-generated code assigned to a sample with some basic data still assigned to it like those stated before - age, sex etc., that are probably necessary for the evaluation purposes), then sent to the lab, the lab does the test, sends it back and there it again comes to a process of "de-anonymization". But as always, any system is only as good as the people who are running it.
 
Where did you get the information that Estonia sent the samples from EC to the same lab in Sweden? I thought Estonia could analyze in their own country.

The doping tests of Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva, handed over in mid-January in Tallinn during the European Championships, were analyzed faster than the December ones handed over at the Russian Championships in St. Petersburg, although both were handled by the same laboratory in Stockholm during the period of coronavirus restrictions. This was reported to TASS by a source.

TASS: https://tass.ru/sport/13689467
 
No axes to grind. In other cases sure but Raducan was not banned at all just her results when the drug was in her system were nullified. Valieva is 15 so if she unknowingly took it I hope it's the same for her. And I'm happy for the rules to be changed but looking at the rules currently, if Valieva herself took it unknowingly it means No Significant Fault or Negligence end of. So then I don't like the idea of her being suspended for that long. This is my view.
I don´t like the idea either but if someone other in her Team put her up to it´s still not ok for her to compete. If it´s a false positive it would be very bad for her to miss her potensial OGM. But you can´t know that and the alternative scenario is that she will be compete and then be suspended afterwards when the investigation is done, and the others athletes would have missed an Olympic podium experience. And the justice to other athletes should be emphasized in cases like this.
 
I wonder why drug testers don't use hair samples.

I'm just learning about this, but it appears that hair follicles hold evidence of any drug use for 90 days. That would take care of cases where drugs are carefully administered in doses that will leave the body within certain times to avoid detection via urine tests. Four tests a year, properly spaced, would take care of this.
 
This is a very strong argument. To prove it you have to collect all research papers published so far, create 2 groups of them (Group 1: used by Wada; Group2: not used by Wada) and prove convincingly that the findings of research paper in Group 1 are significantly different from the findings of the papers of Group 2.

"And in before 2015 there are not so many research papers at all" into what?
"And in before 2015 there are not so many research papers at all" Any evidence?
Well, since WADA follows 'presumption of guilt' rule I find it reasonable to follow the same principle. It is not me who have to prove that they are guilty, it is they have to prove their 'scientific innocence'.
 
I don´t like the idea either but if someone other in her Team put her up to it´s still not ok for her to compete. If it´s a false positive it would be very bad for her to miss her potensial OGM. But you can´t know that and the alternative scenario is that she will be compete and then be suspended afterwards when the investigation is done, and the others athletes would have missed an Olympic podium experience. And the justice to other athletes should be emphasized in cases like this.
I mean then it enters into the subjective realms of "how you feel"...the idea of it not being ok. It's going to play a factor since there could be a caution and upto 2 years defo. Also let's remember anytime between 6 weeks and less for a ban would clear her for the Olympics. Sun Yang it was only 3 months.
 
I wonder why drug testers don't use hair samples.

I'm just learning about this, but it appears that hair follicles hold evidence of any drug use for 90 days. That would take care of cases where drugs are carefully administered in doses that will leave the body within certain times to avoid detection via urine tests. Four tests a year, properly spaced, would take care of this.
Off: Even more than 90 years! Researchers analyse Napoleon's hair whether he was poisoned or not :)) https://www.livescience.com/2292-napoleon-death-arsenic-poisoning-ruled.html
On :)
 
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