Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[[email protected]]

It's so sad to see you two, of all people, triumphing and gloating over the fact Anya and Sasha are about to take up this unfair and unjust fight in the most important tournament of their lives. It's like you have wiped your shoes on their life-long honest effort and aspirations.

First I lost faith in my favourite coach in figure skating, now in my two favourite people in this forum. Tough time.

Sorry, that I did not meet your expectations. Yes, I am triumphing about this small victory because I believe that there is no doping case - trimedazine is no doping and a microdoze in just 1 sample means that it was not a course. Therefore, Kamila's results have nothing to do with this situation and "clean athletes" should be safe knowing that they do not compete against someone with clear pharmalogically driven advantage.

That's one point. The second one. I appeal one more time (and I think it's the last time) to your logic because some of your posts are plain illogical. I just think it's because of emotions - I do believe that in general people are not evil per se - they sometimes are just too emotional. You wrote "gloating" with respect to Anya and Sasha. Have not you forgot that they are Eteri's students too? Do you really believe that TT conspired a convoluted tiramizine based plot to bring Kamila to the Everest of figure skating even at the expense of other Eteri's students? And now clean and innocent Anna and Sasha have to compete against a "dirty cheater"?

Don't you even consider a scenario that there was no doping in Kamila's case and she faces such an immense pressure of "witch hunting" for no reason?

 

[Wafflecakes]

Junior also have WADA watching over them. The only way to get rid of 'protected persons' is by saying 'do what you want in juniors'

I think the point is there is less incentive to dope at the Junior level in general. The downside is still just as big if you get caught, and the upside is much smaller as you can't win a gold medal at 15 or 16.

Nothing will ever totally eliminate doping, but it is a worthy battle to have.

 

[Ivana]

I have been feeling a lot of emotions following this decision.

I feel sorry for Kamila, because no matter what decision was going to be made, she could not have "won" in this one. Tommorow is going to be incredible difficult for her.

If there ever was a good argument to increase the age limit in figure skating, ISU please use this case as one. 15 year old should never be in this position, period.

I feel sorry for all the figure skating and other athletes who have been banned after doing nothing wrong and then spent months to years without competing and thousands of dollars to clear their names and prove their innocence. I can't even imagine the injustice they must feel right now.

Last but not least, despite allowing Kamila to compete at this time I hope this case will be properly investigated.

 

[4everchan]

Maybe because of the situation and social media, they WILL make a big fuss of the medal winners after this is dealt with?

i am not counting on it...

 

[anonymoose_au]

to me: the CAS is protecting Kamila and I can see reasons to do so but I disagree anyways... the IOC does what it thinks is fair to the other athletes. They will at least have a special ceremony for the winners when the situation is cleared out... unlike the athletes who receive their medals in the mail years after the games when samples are tested with newer technology...

Well there's that I guess...

Although don't they usually have a ceremony of sorts rather than just send stuff in the mail? I'm sure I've seen sportspeople from previous games who get medals after the original medallist(s) lost theirs due to doping after the fact stand on a podium and everything.

I seem to remember it happening during London 2012...although 4 years is a long time to wait. Maybe they could have the special ceremony once the case is decided and then hold a proper medal ceremony at the 2026 Olympics, it's not quite the same, but if I won a medal at the Olympics I'd like to receive it AT the Olympics, even if it's 4 years down the line.

 

[yume]

Holy F..., even Yuna Kim issued a statement.

'Athlete who violate doping cannot compete in the game. This principle must be observed without exception. All players' efforts and dreams are equally precious.'

If even Queen Yuna herself makes a statement we are truly in a serious problém.

That's bad. Even her? Her insta is basically for marketing things.
Though i don't remember a scandal of such amplitude in recent years.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Sorry, that I did not meet your expectations. Yes, I am triumphing about this small victory because I believe that there is no doping case - trimedazine is no doping and a microdoze in just 1 sample means that it was not a course. Therefore, Kamila's results have nothing to do with this situation and "clean athletes" should be safe knowing that they do not compete against someone with clear pharmalogically driven advantage.

Literally nothing you just said is backed up by the rules.

The drug is doping by WADA definitions, which is the only definition that matters.
Microdose only means that that was how much was in her system at that moment. It does not determine how much was in the system originally.
BS about the "course" thing.
An advantage in training is still an advantage even if not on the drug in competition.

Your cognitive dissonance is astounding.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I get why they did it. Basically this is so Kamila has a chance to compete if she is in fact not guilty of doping, and they are building in safeguards to remove her from the podium if she is found guilty. With that being said, this is a disaster and will continue to be. The media has already lost their minds, most of the public probably has as well, and now Kamila (and most of TT) is either going to be hated for eternity or just fall apart under the pressure. It would absolutely suck if Kamila couldn't skate and was then later found to be cleared, but the mental strain this must have on her and the other competitors.... and what are commentators supposed to do? And even though the decision has a logical backing everyone is reporting the same thing: Person with positive doping test cleared to compete. Plus there's the whole mess if she is banned and we have to strip medals (that haven't been awarded yet). I'm just so tired...

 

[Wafflecakes]

I wonder what they will do if she doesn't medal. I assume backtrack and hold the ceremony in ladies?

Its unlikely, but the attention could break her mentally and lead to a bad skate.

Edit: Just saw that they addressed this in the release.

 

[4everchan]

Well there's that I guess...

Although don't they usually have a ceremony of sorts rather than just send stuff in the mail? I'm sure I've seen sportspeople from previous games who get medals after the original medallist(s) lost theirs due to doping after the fact stand on a podium and everything.

I seem to remember it happening during London 2012...although 4 years is a long time to wait. Maybe they could have the special ceremony once the case is decided and then hold a proper medal ceremony at the 2026 Olympics, it's not quite the same, but if I won a medal at the Olympics I'd like to receive it AT the Olympics, even if it's 4 years down the line.

Christine Girard received two medals in the mail... a small ceremony was done for her at Ottawa... no... it's not the same. ... I have been to an Olympic ceremony in 2010.. It was amazing to sing the anthem for the athlete winning... The crowd was crazy... nothing can replace that.

 

[yume]

I woud like to know if Kamila herself really wants to skate at this point, or if it's her fed which is pushing the thing. At her place i would already be traumatized and would have took the first plane for home.

 

[Tomadeur]

Irrelevant. The rules are incredibly clear.

A positive test means you don't compete. There are not exceptions built into the rule.

The CAS has chosen to ignore that rule. To pretend that they are going to give the rest of the hearing a fair shake is wishful thinking.

It's fine to critize the ruling by the CAS, but with your conspirancy theories in post #334 you missed the topic covered in todays ruling.

 

[NaVi]

to me: the CAS is protecting Kamila and I can see reasons to do so but I disagree anyways... the IOC does what it thinks is fair to the other athletes. They will at least have a special ceremony for the winners when the situation is cleared out... unlike the athletes who receive their medals in the mail years after the games when samples are tested with newer technology...

Well, the way this went down with the sample taking so long to process shouldn't have happened. It's probably good precedent to say that an athlete should have time to present a defense for a failed test taken so long ago in an emergency situation like at the Olympics. I'm sure changes will be made to avoid something like this happening again.

 

[KaliM]

Irrelevant. The rules are incredibly clear.

A positive test means you don't compete. There are not exceptions built into the rule.

The CAS has chosen to ignore that rule. To pretend that they are going to give the rest of the hearing a fair shake is wishful thinking.

A positive test means you face sanctions.
They decided to let her compete due the circumstances and they will decided on the sactions on a later date if it's proven to be doping and not a false positive (slim chances)

 

[[email protected]]

Your cognitive dissonance is astounding.

You can keep providing diagnosis for me - I know that telemedicine gets more and more popular these days. I am not sure that I requested it but I won't respond to your provocations any more as my posts have been moderated.

One last thing about the rules is that CAS is the rules. And allegations that an American, an Italian, and a Slovenian made such a verdict only because they are afraid of Russian mafia IMO means that those who made those allegations truly need to see a doctor.

 

[4everchan]

Well, the way this went down with the sample taking so long to process shouldn't have happened. It's probably good precedent to say that an athlete should have time to present a defense for a failed test taken so long ago. I'm sure changes will be made to avoid something like this happening again.

however, from the cases i have followed, it takes weeks sometimes months for the athlete to prove their innocence... let's say the results had been given earlier, are 2-3 weeks enough to prepare a defense and get a hearing and a ruling? I doubt it.. My belief is that if the positive test had been received, ROC would have sent Liza to the games... and in the best case scenario, Kamila might have been cleared to compete at worlds, maybe, if truly she is innocent?

 

[Wafflecakes]

You can keep providing diagnosis for me - I know that telemedicine gets more and more popular these days. I am not sure that I requested it but I won't respond to your provocations any more as my posts have been moderated.

One last thing about the rules is that CAS is the rules. And allegations that an American, an Italian, and a Slovenian made such a verdict only because they are afraid of Russian mafia IMO means that those who made those allegations truly need to see a doctor.

Cognitive dissonance isn't a medical or psychological condition..... Maybe read up on it before overreacting.

Also, no the CAS are not the rules. They are the court that is supposed to enforce the rules.... not make them up as they go along as they are doing now.

 

[Lzbee]

And what I don't understand is the request to raise the age limit. I still haven't read any good argument how this would improve the condition for junior skaters at all. Something must happen, but other steps are much more needed. Only raising the age requirements will delay the much needed change for many years.

Raising the age limit will mean that all athletes in the same competition will be treated the same way if a positive doping test is found. As it stands, Kamila can skate because she's a minor but any other athlete (16 or over) in her situation would have been provisionally banned from the Olympics while the investigation is pending.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Would it be in any way possible to hold a ceremony at the WC for the skaters involved (including Kamila if she is podiums and is cleared)?

 

[Fanof]

I woud like to know if Kamila herself really wants to skate at this point, or if it's her fed which is pushing the thing. At her place i would already be traumatized and would have took the first plane for home.

Me too but maybe that's why we will never be Olympic champions (amongst other reasons).
If she knew she was doped, I would rather say it should give her a feeling of impunity.
If she didn't, I don't even understand how she is able to get out of her bed...