Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[cisum88note]

I would not be so sure that those instagram (?) posts were "the actual words of the athletes".
Even if they were, it can be a strategic move on part of Alysa, Yelim etc, to reach out to their fan base and add to the scapegoating of Kamila and the Russians. I really find it hard to believe that now, 1 day prior to SP, they'd be preoccupied by this drama.

Is there a reason you seem to believe multiple athletes were hacked and/or others were using their social media accounts? Seems like a fantastic claim without any evidence.

 

[cisum88note]

If we compare scenarios the level of harm for the 24 others is so much lower. The actual determination of if she is guilty or not hasn't been made. The only harm so far is butt-hurtness.

How can you determine their psychological harm?

 

[RatedPG]

Except nobody is making the claim that she mixed up another medication. Leaks

This medication has a half life of 4-7 hours and would be gone in approximately a day. How could she have "accidentally" ingested the medication at her grandfather's in Kazan when she was in St. Petersburg for days competing at Russian Nats? Even a basic factual examination of this claim makes no sense, nevermind the scientific fact that this medicine isn't transferrable from drinking from the same glass.

Yes. But, at the same time, why would she take this risk? Given her record, she could have pulled out from Russian Nationals citing an injury, and still be chosen to the team. It sounds plausible that this could have been accidental.

 

[Zora]

For short, Valieva's grandfather says that he receives trimetazidine, and Kamila used the same 'contaminated glass' after him.

I wonder if they all have a grandpa who takes trimetazidine, just in case...

 

[norwegianfairytale]

Here is the report on Valieva's case prepared by the Russian opposition investigative journalists 'Dossier Center'. They've obtained somehow the leaked audio of Valieva's proceedings at RUSADA's disciplinary committee on 9 Feb, and also WADA's application to the CAS. Their report is in Russian, but the text of WADA's application is attached there in English. For short, Valieva's grandfather says that he receives trimetazidine, and Kamila used the same 'contaminated glass' after him. Her mother also says that Kamila receives another medicine - hypoxen 'to treat heart variations'. WADA describes all this in its application and states that trimetazidine is also for heart treatment, as hypoxen too. Dossier Center's experts say that TMZ is in capsules which dissolve in intestines only and cannot contaminate the glass. https://dossier-center.appspot.com/kamila/

So there is no denying she had it in her body at all. This is already enough to suspend her.

The story is just incredible weak. As a top athlete you don´t share a glas of water with anyone because it´s top priority to stay healthy, and especially not in these covid times. And you don´t share a glass with anyone regardless as a top athlete in case of doping cases. It´s your responsibility to know what you drink and eat. No matter what, if this is her story there is no way she should get away with it. She will be suspended for doping.

So apparently her family is protecting her, or there are some strong forces in team TT making the story and making her family stick to it.

I really wanted to give this case the benefit of the doubt but this just screams cover up all the way. And it makes me really angry because if they stick to this story the people who should be punished in Team TT won´t. The blame would be put on Kamila and her family.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

At least, at the next Olympics, all the women will have to be 17 and not eligible for "special treatment". And the Russians should have to compete as RDC (Russian Dopers and Cheaters).

They shouldn't be allowed to compete at all. If the IOC had any balls a few years ago, Russia (in any name incarnation), should have been out of 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2022 Olympics.

 

[silveruskate]

I have nothing against Valieva, but in 2000 summer Olympics, Andreea Raducan was stripped of her gold medal in gymnastics, because her doctor gave her a cold/flu drug that contained ephedrine, which at that time was on the list. Andreea was also 15 years old. Ephedrine is not at all, a hard core drug.

Precisely her case is useful. Only stripped of her medal when the drug was in the body. Aside from that she kept all the medals before and after that day of the Olympics with zero ban. And she was 16 and not 15, I thought nowadays it's not enough to say you accidentally took drugs because of a cough medicine. It clearly says pseudoephedrine is in the Sudafed. Johaug was banned because of the lip balm (although I think it was just a ruse for dopping so it's justified). The Raducan case was huge leniency because of her age but she is seen as a sweetheart to this day.

 

[Puchi]

The women's event is tainted.
I think USA should withdraw their skaters from the event in protest of this decision.
And so should Japan.

 

[matin calin]

This medication has a half life of 4-7 hours and would be gone in approximately a day. How could she have "accidentally" ingested the medication at her grandfather's in Kazan when she was in St. Petersburg for days competing at Russian Nats? Even a basic factual examination of this claim makes no sense, nevermind the scientific fact that this medicine isn't transferrable from drinking from the same glass.

It has been explained already in the former thread that half life does not mean that the medication gets undetectable with WADA-methods, rather, it takes weeks. So in theory, she could have received TMZ weeks prior to the testing date.

There is one thing that puzzles me, so many people on this forum, Twitter etc professed love and sympathy for Kamila, right? But when they are presented with scenarios that would actually clear her name, like an accidental intake or lab mistake, those are being viciously denied. My explanation is that people dislike Russia a tiny bit more than they like Kamila, and somehow it is just comforting to learn about bad Russians being humiliated and punished once again.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Haha, I'm sorry but the grandfather story with the video filmed in a car made me giggle. This is like an especially bad B-movie plot. It would be funny if it were not so sad for our sport.

 

[silveruskate]

How can you determine their psychological harm?

I think it's a pretty easy comparison, but I doubt anything will convince you if you're even asking.

 

[flotsam]

That is so interesting. I wonder if there is a way to measure the amount of trimetazidine in her body on 12/25. I imagine that drinking the contaminated glass after someone has taken the drug, it would appear with a lesser quantity in her body, than someone who takes this drug regularly. Seems like it would be easy to find this out.

She could be innocent and if the grandfather uses this drug, I can see why it would be in her body. But, at the same time, I can also see how the grandfather could buy this drug, as Kamila is a minor, and then it gets administered to her, with the excuse of the drinking after grandfather contaminated glass, if she gets caught.

This is a tough case. An investigation though, could give us answers. I’m still 50/50. But, thanks for this information.

According to that article, trimetazidine pills dissolve in the intestines. I suspect her grandfather's glass doesn't contain his toilet water.

 

[Erin9]

This medication has a half life of 4-7 hours and would be gone in approximately a day. How could she have "accidentally" ingested the medication at her grandfather's in Kazan when she was in St. Petersburg for days competing at Russian Nats? Even a basic factual examination of this claim makes no sense, nevermind the scientific fact that this medicine isn't transferrable from drinking from the same glass.

Thanks. It really doesn’t make sense.

This was my expectation from the beginning- that somehow someway they’d manage to prevent any blame from going to anyone involved in this highly successful program. And here it is. How convenient.

 

[skatesofgold]

I have nothing against Valieva, but in 2000 summer Olympics, Andreea Raducan was stripped of her gold medal in gymnastics, because her doctor gave her a cold/flu drug that contained ephedrine, which at that time was on the list. Andreea was also 15 years old. Ephedrine is not at all, a hard core drug.

Raducan was 16 turning 17. She’s born on September 30, 1983. I always assumed she got off relatively lightly regarding her other two medals because the doctor confessed to what he did and took the brunt of the punishment being banned for the next couple Olympic cycles.

 

[millie]

TMZ is a medication that come in a capsule form. You do not dissolve it in a glass of water. The pill starts to dissolve in you stomach. Therefore, it is impossible to contaminate the glass with TMZ unless the person soaked their medication in water, which is unlikely. If the minor knew she drank from the contaminated glass, she must have told her guardians.

 

[el henry]

If we compare scenarios the level of harm for the 24 others is so much lower. The actual determination of if she is guilty or not hasn't been made. The only harm so far is butt-hurtness.

No, the harm, if there is such, is that clean athletes compete with ones who have tested positive for banned substances. Harm that also cannot be undone.

Nothing "butt hurt" about it. Bravo to the athletes who feel this decision was incorrect for speaking their mind, it could not have been easy. Far easier to just stay silent.

 

[Tomadeur]

If you've read the decision and WADA's response, WADA is claiming CAS made up a legal exception that is not written in the WADA rules and has never been implemented before. I would encourage commenters to actually look at the legal decisions and analysis or refrain from posting "there must have been a legal ground" if you aren't actually familiar with the legal reasoning in the public decision and WADA's public response.

It's not that WADA is automatically right. WADA has put forward its arguments for reinstating the provisional ban, and yet the CAS judges considered it justified not to revoke the ban.

The CAS judges are also not a couple of idiots who are not familiar with the application of law, but specialized in interpreting guidelines and laws such as the WADA code. Perhaps later it will be found that the decision could have been different, but there is no reason to believe that the judges did not try to make the right decision given the limited time and the very complex facts of the case.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

The women's event is tainted.
I think USA should withdraw their skaters from the event in protest of this decision.
And so should Japan.

No. If the skaters themselves want to withdraw, that's one thing. But at this point, hours away from competition, the federations just need to do their normal routine of support. Removing their athletes as a form of protest is meaningless, under the specific circumstances at hand. Hurts the wrong people.

 

[Magill]

Haha, I'm sorry but the grandfather story with the video filmed in a car made me giggle. This is like an especially bad B-movie plot. It would be funny if it were not so sad for our sport.

Yeah, the grandfather's story has really made my day - and my mind. I mean, I am not able to force mysef to think it even distantly probable.... it's just so blatant., Conclusions are obvious, unfortunately.

 

[Vemvane]

I do wonder about his reasoning though.... how bad is "lowered blood pressure" if you're doing something athletic which raises blood pressure?

As someone with low blood pressure, it's ghastly. When my blood pressure drops when I'm doing something athletic, my heart goes into overdrive. So I am now dizzy, faint, with a racing heart, probably sweaty as well. If I am somewhere safe, with people around, I will sit down or even lie flat, and hydrate with water, Powerade or black tea, depending on what is available, and maybe have some licorice. If I am working horses alone, I grit my teeth, grab onto the horse's mane, and have them tow me back to their field before I black out so I can strip their tack and then lie down to recover.

Basically, your systolic blood pressure has to increase during exercise. The heart needs to get oxygen around your body, so it works harder. If blood pressure falls, the load on the heart increases. Exercise-induced hypotension is considered to be serious and an indicator of being at greater risk for cardiovascular events. And from my own experience, having blood pressure crashes when exercising is both counter-productive and dangerous.

That said, both systolic and diastolic blood pressure can increase dangerously during exercise for some individuals, so it does depend on the person, and probably on the exercise. As I am not an expert, I shall simply link to some articles on blood pressure and exercise, for those who are interested.

Systolic Blood Pressure Response During Exercise Stress Testing (2015 open access article in the Journal of the American Heart Association)

What is a 'normal' blood pressure response during exercise testing? (Press release for 2018 journal article.)

Low but not high exercise systolic blood pressure is associated with long-term all-cause mortality (2021 open access article in BMJ Open Sport & Exercise Medicine)

Peak Exercise SPB and future risk of cardiovascular disease and mortality (2022 open access article in Journal of Hypertension)