Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[matin calin]

Really? WOW

is it really so uncommon to use the same glass (not at the dinner table of course)?

I know I can drink tap water and then place my glass next to the sink with some water left, which my boyfriend can easily drink up, and vice versa. We can also drink from the same water bottle in the car for example. We are not professional athletes under scrutiny though.

 

[Alchamei]

is it really so uncommon to use the same glass (not at the dinner table of course)?

I know I can drink tap water and then place my glass next to the sink with some water left, which my boyfriend can easily drink up, and vice versa. We can also drink from the same water bottle in the car for example. We are not professional athletes under scrutiny though.

I mean, I even borrow toothbrush from my BF. Even though that's another story.

I would bold the last part though - we don't have to care since we are not professional ahtletes, and one can get a positive test just from a wrong cosmetics or multivitamins, so I would be more careful.

 

[Lzbee]

not necessarily, TMZ can linger in one's body for days if not weeks.

If the dosage is high. But if she's contaminated through drinking the same water as her grandpa who actually takes the medicine then her dosage should be very low and it will not be in her system very long because the half life of the medicine is about 8 hours.

 

[Pantsu]

The fact that the test was positive doesn't mean Valieva is a doper. She can be cleared completely and face no sanctions.
Given the circumstances it was absolutely correct to let her compete.
Previously i thought you are wrong anyway if your test is positive and should face harsh consequences regardless of "knowing or fault/no fault". The only question is the amount time penalty you get because of that.

Shaldybin tested positive following an out-of-competition test on June 7. Given the low concentration in her urine sample, circumstances of her ingestion of the substance and expert reports, USADA determined “on a balance of probabilities” that Shaldybin likely ingested it through tap water.
Shaldybin will not face a period of ineligibility or loss of results obtained on or subsequent to June 7, 2016, the day her sample was collected.

Clearly that is not the case.
“on a balance of probabilities”, likely

 

[Greengemmonster]

I haven't followed the Women SP.... I guess I have lost interest in the event for now at least.

Kaori was gorgeous

Alysa was solid and lovely as well!

It wasn't all bad!

 

[HisShadowBG]

I thought Adam Rippon presented a reasoned argument:




Please read the thread before bringing up "oh this athlete and oh that athlete" in response to Adam; Adam addresses the "whataboutism". He also said:

As an athlete I sat through USADA presentations where we were discouraged from even taking a multivitamin. When we get sick we avoid cold medicine. When we are in pain we avoid creams and other topicals that might have

I thought Adam Rippon presented a reasoned argument:




Please read the thread before bringing up "oh this athlete and oh that athlete" in response to Adam; Adam addresses the "whataboutism". He also said:

As an athlete I sat through USADA presentations where we were discouraged from even taking a multivitamin. When we get sick we avoid cold medicine. When we are in pain we avoid creams and other topicals that might have “something” in them.

Spare me sure US does not dope. Remind me again why did Lance Armstrong compete for years doped up and only got 'caught' after he tried his luck in politics

 

[Mista Ekko]

I think russian people use to greet by kissing on the mouse. It’s not a french kiss but it’s still a kiss

I mean.... as long as they don't think of bringing that up as defence in front of doping committees
if they ever run into problems in the future

 

[Amei]

I don’t follow rhythmic gymnastics either, but I did catch the final at the Olympics. I remember Russia being upset with the result. I didn’t know they decided to treat her as the gold medalist. Not surprising though, now that I think about it.

Yes- I think they’d follow the same formula with KV. I think- no matter what- she’ll be supported in and by Russia. Whatever happens- if it isn’t favorable- either in competition performance or in keeping any medals- will be deemed someone else’s fault. I saw photos of giant billboards supporting her in Russia.

Well question for you (and I hope this doesn't violate the speculation thing of this thread), unlike the rhythmic gymnastics situation - here the second place finisher that could be given gold based on Valieva being stripped of a medal is going to be a Russian, and based on today, if Valieva isn't flawless they may pump up a Russian skater to place over top of her. What do you think happens then as its another Russian ?

 

[Alchamei]

Spare me sure US does not dope remind me again why did Lance Armstrong competed for years doped up and only got 'caught' after he tried his luck in politics

But Lance was caught, and as far as I know, there is no state supported doping.

I can't stress that enough but I have to: It doesn't matter at this moment that other athletes or countries might be doping as well, more people are suspicious, but so far we have proof that Valieva had a positive test and this thread is about her, not about American etc etc doping.

 

[flotsam]

Spare me sure US does not dope remind me again why did Lance Armstrong competed for years doped up and only got 'caught' after he tried his luck in politics

I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that some US athletes dope. But let's also not pretend that USADA is even remotely comparable to RUSADA. USADA took pride in bringing Lance Armstrong down, because they're more committed, as an organization, to the goals of anti-doping than they are to boosting US athletes. By contrast, RUSADA itself has been deeply implicated in state-sponsored doping schemes - the exact opposite of their supposed mission.

 

[Mista Ekko]

I thought Adam Rippon presented a reasoned argument:




Please read the thread before bringing up "oh this athlete and oh that athlete" in response to Adam; Adam addresses the "whataboutism". He also said:

As an athlete I sat through USADA presentations where we were discouraged from even taking a multivitamin. When we get sick we avoid cold medicine. When we are in pain we avoid creams and other topicals that might have “something” in them.

He's absolutely right and I've been saying it all along.

people who end up doping or agreeing to be doped use that as justification in their own heads,
so do the ones who come to their defence when they eventually get caught.

 

[Amei]

The fact that the test was positive doesn't mean Valieva is a doper. She can be cleared completely and face no sanctions.
Given the circumstances it was absolutely correct to let her compete.
Previously i thought you are wrong anyway if your test is positive and should face harsh consequences regardless of "knowing or fault/no fault". The only question is the amount time penalty you get because of that.

Shaldybin tested positive following an out-of-competition test on June 7. Given the low concentration in her urine sample, circumstances of her ingestion of the substance and expert reports, USADA determined “on a balance of probabilities” that Shaldybin likely ingested it through tap water.
Shaldybin will not face a period of ineligibility or loss of results obtained on or subsequent to June 7, 2016, the day her sample was collected.

Clearly that is not the case.
“on a balance of probabilities”, likely

Here's the thing, based on the CAS statement, if Valieva was 16 and not 15 she wouldn't be competing today and Thursday. If there was a blanket 'the athlete can compete till they exhaust their appeals and lose those appeals' then I think more people would have less of an issue.

 

[Erin9]

Spare me sure US does not dope. Remind me again why did Lance Armstrong compete for years doped up and only got 'caught' after he tried his luck in politics

He never said the US didn’t dope. He said they were punished, rather than excused.

And it’s not state run in the US when it does happen.

 

[Erin9]

Well question for you (and I hope this doesn't violate the speculation thing of this thread), unlike the rhythmic gymnastics situation - here the second place finisher that could be given gold based on Valieva being stripped of a medal is going to be a Russian, and based on today, if Valieva isn't flawless they may pump up a Russian skater to place over top of her. What do you think happens then as its another Russian ?

Good question. Will have to think about that!

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

Yeah, yeah what a source - some article tried to ridicule one of potential hypothesis. But look at the picture. This is trimetazidine that is sold in Russian pharmacies, I don't see capsules that dissolve in the intestines here.

That's....exactly what these tablets are. The "MR" stands for "modified release," which is one of several terms used for medications that are formulated to break down slowly in the digestive system and release a steady dose of drug over time.

 

[4everchan]

Kaori was gorgeous

Alysa was solid and lovely as well!

It wasn't all bad!

oh I am sure it wasn't all bad... but it wasn't "clean"

 

[TT_Fin]

I changed my mind and tell what I think. I watched the result and maybe watch some videos later, just maybe. The grandma excuse - I am sure I am not the only one - made me think that there has been several thoughts what will we now say and sounded a good story. My father, who died of heart disease called angina pectoris, after suffering it for 30 years, at the age of 86 some years ago had a medicine jar in his pocket just in case for pain. He did not even need water at all with his medicine when not available, they were easy to swallow. There are different kind of medicines for it, so I don't know them all.

I am sorry to say, but I do not believe in the story at all. Fs have gone so fast forwards in difficulty, I said my husband already during Euros that is is a matter of time when the first doping carts will become apparent. I did not mention any names, countries, or disciplines. I am sad to say, but I think we have just seen only the peak of the ice berg. No more opinions here.

 

[matin calin]

her dosage should be very low and it will not be in her system very long because the half life of the medicine is about 8 hours.

I think they found only a trace amount (very little) that is compatible with possible contamination, which is probably why the plot twist about grandpa, if they indeed used it in their defence, was "bought" by CAS, for now at least.

The half life thing has already been discussed extensively earlier in the thread, 8 h half life does not mean that the substance becomes undetectable after 8 h, neither it means that it gets undetectable after 8x2=16 hours, it's much more complicated than that.
What I managed to understand is that TMZ can remain in your system for weeks after consumption, depending on the intake dose. This is why it is impossible to establish when exactly Kamila consumed it, at least with the amount of info we have been given so far.

 

[HisShadowBG]

But Lance was caught, and as far as I know, there is no state supported doping.

I can't stress that enough but I have to: It doesn't matter at this moment that other athletes or countries might be doping as well, more people are suspicious, but so far we have proof that Valieva had a positive test and this thread is about her, not about American etc etc doping.

I strongly disagree that it is not state supported and protected

What is the problem with Valieva competing then she will lose her titles after investigation is concluded if she is guilty like Lance did

 

[Magill]

I think they found only a trace amount (very little) that is compatible with possible contamination, which is probably why the plot twist about grandpa, if they indeed used it in their defence, was "bought" by CAS, for now at least.

The half life thing has already been discussed extensively earlier in the thread, 8 h half life does not mean that the substance becomes undetectable after 8 h, neither it means that it gets undetectable after 8x2=16 hours, it's much more complicated than that.
What I managed to understand is that TMZ can remain in your system for weeks after consumption, depending on the intake dose. This is why it is impossible to establish when exactly Kamila consumed it, at least with the amount of info we have been given so far.

I don't think CAS "bought" anything apart from her being a minor and the test's result coming in very last minute