Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Mista Ekko]

I believe so. In that case, of course, the very simple explanation is that he never tested positive for a substance. Had he, the USADA would have banned him for the longest period possible.

Thank you, yes, some of the inconsistencies in comments
and different subjects flying around here really throw me off

 

[4everchan]

You can address that question to the IOC. Why they think it is acceptable.

The IOC is only reacting to the CAS letting everyone down.

 

[Alchamei]

Reading the news, I guess I can be glad I didn't watch the event, otherwise I'd be pissed about the corrupt scoring as well.

 

[matin calin]

So why claim CAS "bought" this version? I just refer to what they did publish by now, not to what they might mean or think or imply...

I did not claim anything. I suggested, when responding to another forum member, that since they only found a small amount of TMZ, an amount that is compatible with possible contamination, it can explain that they accepted the grandpa story for now.

If she had I don't know, an concentration equal to consuming 1 whole tablet of TMZ this version would have probably been dismissed right away without any further investigation. Which is supposed to take place according to their statement.

 

[matin calin]

a medicine that dissolves not in water but in your intestines...

Not if you divide the tablet prior to consumption, which is pretty common, I know I have to do it to my medication.

 

[Draculus]

If the dosage is high. But if she's contaminated through drinking the same water as her grandpa who actually takes the medicine then her dosage should be very low and it will not be in her system very long because the half life of the medicine is about 8 hours.

Dosage on it's own tells not much without detection sensitivity and modern methods can detect microscopic amounts.

 

[mskater93]

Not if Eteri's other skaters are any indicator...

[Most likely she'll also retire by 17 (i sincerely hope NOT), either of injury or for the next 14-15 year old prodigy. It's not visible now, but there are already strong indicators that quads and Sambo training are unforgiving to a growing body. There were reports of Evgenia's spine growing wrong if I'm not mistaken.

But if she gets ahead of this early and adjust, Kamila can skate well into her twenties She's too good not to

No Sambo 70 skater has competed past 20

 

[Magill]

Not if you divide the tablet prior to consumption, which is pretty common, I know I have to do it to my medication.

You are not supposed to divide this type of medication because they might lose their therapeutic effect disssolving too soon. Still, too soon means in stomach instead of intestines, not in water in your glass or in your saliva.

 

[HisShadowBG]

I believe that's the poster's faulty reasoning. In that case, of course, the very simple explanation is that he never tested positive for a substance. Had he, the USADA would have banned him for the longest period possible.

Why did they strip him of his titles then?

Lance was caught, and when he was caught, he was drummed out of the sport and is a reviled and mocked person in the US. So spare me the "whataboutism".

Your "belief" about state sponsored doping in the US is irrelevant, as there is no proof to support that "belief".

Adam's opinion stands as a reasonable one.

You skip the part where he competed his entire career and retired before he was caught seems he was very protected to me.That he is mocked now is irrelevent
Yeah clean Übermensch US(other) athletes competed against supposedly state sponsered dopped athletes and won on many occasions

 

[LiamForeman]

This is a really tragic point to me as well. We'll now never know how good Kamila could have been without doping, but it probably was good enough to get gold either way. The German Sportschau commentator made the point that in figure skating, doping isn't quite as powerful as it is in other disciplines - though there are still real, tangible benefits that can't be dismissed. However, doping alone can't teach you artistry and it's not teaching you to jump a quad. If you don't already have a really good basis, doping usually can't get you on the podium. And yet, I guess they just didn't think Kamila was good enough to do it on her own (or doping is so deeply ingrained as normalised into the mindset of her coaches that the thought of not doing it never even occured).

The problem I am having is that TMZ has not even been determined to enhance performance in the first place anyway. Yes, THEORETICALLY it makes sense that a chemical that does x, y, and z COULD or SHOULD result in the anticipated benefit. But that's hardly ever the case. Many potential pharma drugs go into Research and Development (R/D) and on paper it makes sense that some new compound/drug could or should help, but then, nope. One of the reasons why pharma is so expensive is because millions/billions are invested into these potential 'next-gen' medications, only to be found that compared to a control it really isn't any better or it doesn't even do what on paper it should. So I am having a hard time hearing Kamila being called a doper when it isn't even established that it actually enhances performance.

 

[iceskater10]

I strongly disagree that it is not state supported and protected

What is the problem with Valieva competing then she will lose her titles after investigation is concluded if she is guilty like Lance did

Because its ruining the experience for everyone else in the event

 

[matin calin]

Still, too soon means in stomach instead of intestines, not in water in your glass or in your saliva.

Ok so if I divide my tablet on a cutting board and there are tiny crumbles of it left which are later somehow consumed by my BF (this defense line was successfully used by some other athlete, if I recall correctly) - my share of the tablet will be detectable on the tests but not my boyfriend's? Given that we consumed it in in the same form, crushed tablets.

 

[mskater93]

WADA issued an advisory that trimetazidine could show up in urine samples as a false positive for lomerizine, a migraine medication that is permitted. American swimmer Madisyn Cox successfully proved that a vitamin supplement she had been taking was contaminated with trimetazidine. It could be a false-positive result or a legal medication was contaminated with trimetazidine. It takes more time to investigate this matter further.

The false positive for lomerizine has to be reviewed prior to a TMZ positive being posted by the lab. Period. Also, an athlete needs to disclose usage of lomerizine

 

[Draculus]

No Sambo 70 skater has competed past 20

I remember times then this number was 17

 

[4everchan]

Cheaters who have escaped the laws : that doesn't excuse the positive test of a child 2 months before the Olympics. It also doesn't excuse the simple fact that she was allowed to compete against clean athletes. This is what this thread is about... it's not about Lance Armstrong, and lip balms. It's about a child, ingesting substances that are meant to bring better blood circulation so her body can recover better and faster, and so she can train more, until her body can no longer take the toll of it, so she retires before ever getting to maturity.
How many Julia, Adelina, Zhenya, Alina, Aliona, Adian (and I am skipping others) will Sambo 70 go through?

 

[ManyCairns]

I did not claim anything. I suggested, when responding to another forum member, that since they only found a small amount of TMZ, an amount that is compatible with possible contamination, it can explain that they accepted the grandpa story for now.

If she had I don't know, an concentration equal to consuming 1 whole tablet of TMZ this version would have probably been dismissed right away without any further investigation. Which is supposed to take place according to their statement.

I don't think that follows at all. At this point, the governing bodies have not looked at the merits of the case, just whether or not to uphold the initial suspension. And anyway, as has been pointed out ad nauseum, any supposedly trace amount in a test result doesn't necessarily have some direct correlation with the amount of the banned substance consumed.

 

[matin calin]

I don't think that follows at all. At this point, the governing bodies have not looked at the merits of the case, just whether or not to uphold the initial suspension. And anyway, as has been pointed out ad nauseum, any supposedly trace amount in a test result doesn't necessarily have some direct correlation with the amount of the banned substance consumed.

And how does this contradict to what I've said? I have basically said the same thing in my last 2-3 posts only phrased a bit differently.

 

[el henry]

The problem I am having is that TMZ has not even been determined to enhance performance in the first place anyway. Yes, THEORETICALLY it makes sense that a chemical that does x, y, and z COULD or SHOULD result in the anticipated benefit. But that's hardly ever the case. Many potential pharma drugs go into Research and Development (R/D) and on paper it makes sense that something could or should help, but then, nope. One of the reasons why pharma is so expensive is because millions/billions are invested into these potential 'next-gen' medications, only to be found that compared to a control it really isn't any better or it doesn't even do what on paper it should. So I am having a hard time hearing Kamila being called a doper when it isn't even established that it actually enhances performance.

That doesn't matter.

"Doping" is ingesting a banned substance. It is banned. If apple pie is a banned substance, and I am proven to have eaten apple pie, I am a doper. After the fact "oh it doesn't really help" does not relieve one from the duty to not ingest it.

Jumping off and not directed at your post, (although it may address some of the issues)

1. TMZ doesn't really help performance : irrelevant to whether the athlete ingested it.

2. No reason/motivation: irrelevant to whether the athlete ingested it.

3. They can't be that stupid: really? Someone came up with the gem that is Grandpa's Glass

4. Everyone else does it/all these other athletes got off: irrelevant to whether this athlete ingested it.

And yes, I will repeat myself every ten screens or so, just for good measure.

If Kamila is found to have a defense to the positive test after a hearing, then she is not a doper. If she does not, then she is. ETA: At this point, she was allowed to participate procedurally, but nothing has been proven to contraindicate the positive test. So as of now, she did "dope".

 

[Magill]

Ok so if I divide my tablet on a cutting board and there are tiny crumbles of it left which are later somehow consumed by my BF (this defense line was successfully used by some other athlete, if I recall correctly) - my share of the tablet will be detectable on the tests but not my boyfriend's? Given that we consumed it in in the same form, crushed tablets.

If you were using this type of medicine for treatment, you would have been advised by your doctor not to crush it, cut it, or divide it in any other way as then it is losing its therapeutic effect and I assume, achieving this effect would be the main reason for you to take it in the first place. So you would not have done it as you'd have no reason to.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

That doesn't matter.

"Doping" is ingesting a banned substance. It is banned. If apple pie is a banned substance, and I am proven to have eaten apple pie, I am a doper. After the fact "oh it doesn't really help" does not relieve one from the duty to not ingest it.

It feels like this has to be explained at least once every two pages in this thread.