Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Baron Vladimir]

I only ever watch the Eurosport coverage, and I can testify that despite being fun and knowledgable they
have moments when I swear they have no idea what they're talking about.

Also, if you think "clean sport" is the property of North Americans alone you are mistaken,
within this thread and outside of it.

In this situation, obviously is, and that was my point. I don't see European media had that much hatred on the situation, calling Kamila a doper without being sure of it etc. And my logic conclusion is - just because of the medals they can potentially get. Simple as that. And sad too.

 

[mskater93]

I have an idea for making peace with Kamila Valieva and other skater. I propose to give Kamila her medal to the ranking that she finished in the team and individually. But to be just with other skater, they should remove her and pulling up the other skater Winning gold, silver and bronze.

For example if Kamila finish overall gold and for example if Anna is second overall, giving Kamila a sympathy gold and Anna the real Gold, and pull up all the other athletes. Example pull up USA, japan and Canada on the podium (gold, silver and bronze) and example pulling up Anna, Kaori and Alexandra (gold, silver and bronze). And giving and additionnel medal to Kamila in the ranking that she finish overall.

For me it doesn't matter if we give two gold medal in individual event if that make skater in peace with this story.

Why not just make her a platinum medal ala Plushy in 2010?

 

[el henry]

so the answer is no.
If that person publish my home address, my work time schedule and security code for the entrance door, can NYT repost it?

No, that is an incorrect assumption from my post. I am not answering.

This is my position: The NY Times engaged in normal, responsible journalism when they asked questions about the hearing and when they printed information already in the public domain.

All the "oh look a squirrel!" deflecting questions won't change that opinion, and so I'm not answering them. So if you have further queries along that line, I do not mean to be rude, but I will not answer.

 

[Mista Ekko]

In this situation, obviously is, and that was my point. I don't see European media had that much hatred on the situation, calling Kamila a doper without being sure of it etc. And my logic conclusion is - just because of the medals they can potentially get. Simple as that. And sad too.

Nope. False.

 

[chuckm]

I looked up the drug l-carnitine, which Valieva is taking. It's a dietary supplement to prevent or treat low levels of carnitine in the blood. Carnitine is naturally produced in the body from meat and dairy products. Low levels of carnitine in the body can cause liver, heart and muscle problems.

Hmmm. Weight is strictly monitored in the Tutberidze camp. That could lead to dietary deficiencies, and if meat and dairy products are limited, then use of this drug may be indicated to prevent health problems.

 

[Draculus]

Who knows, but why was she taking the two other medications? Is every skater taking them too? Even if they're not banned that still sounds dodgy, especially as pretty much all the skaters at Crystal apart from Moris are under 18.

It is not medication, it is food supplement.

 

[el henry]

I'm allowed to call it false. I didn't quote anybody but just commented on the article. Funnily I never said it discounts the prohibited substance or anything but the poster you defend shifts the sands of what is being talked about because he is caught with his pants down (because I'm right in my original post). And I mean they literally changed their own article but whatever you say...

Are you talking about me? If you are not, and please disregard the rest of this message.

I don't know if you are a native English speaker, but "caught with their pants down" is an unsavory metaphor. And does not apply to me.

Finally, I am a she. I stand by all my opinions, I don't use a screen name. (ETA: well, it is a screen name, it's not my full name. And I did seriously consider Toller4Ever. I guess now it would be LuvsJason ) Henry is my real last name and El is my nickname. And Toller, my avatar, was a god among skaters.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Nope. False.

Very knowledgeable reply, as expected

 

[skatedreamer]

No, that is an incorrect assumption from my post. I am not answering.

This is my position: The NY Times engaged in normal, responsible journalism when they asked questions about the hearing and when they printed information already in the public domain.

All the "oh look a squirrel!" deflecting questions won't change that opinion, and so I'm not answering them. So if you have further queries along that line, I do not mean to be rude, but I will not answer.

el henry, can we maybe put you on retainer?

Kidding re: above but also saying this with sincere respect; I've been appreciating your posts and your reasoned perspective.

 

[Draculus]

No, that is an incorrect assumption from my post. I am not answering.

It's ok, no worries, I can read your mind, we are not in a court.

This is my position: The NY Times engaged in normal, responsible journalism when they asked questions about the hearing and when they printed information already in the public domain.

I was just a little bit in fear that NYT actually CAN post information from my examples. Thank you for clarification.

 

[kan01]

I've said Canada and USA. I don't see Japanese media is outraged with it, and i can't take other Tutk fans from this forum seriously too... And i will copy my post again to see that:
I can only suggest people from North America to watch more B ESP or any other European coverage, it is much more realistic and truthful to the situation. Now i realize that problem with North Americans is not that 'clean sport' narrative they are pushing, it is sadly and only about the medals (dumb me ). Because if Kamila were suspended, USA would get gold and Canada bronze... so let's just be real about what is behind all those media news. Unlike North America's media, there is no conflict of interest in Europe, so people can keep common sense there # sorry, not sorry

Umm, Tutk fans? I'm confused...
Do you mean Tuktamisheva fans? Sorry but the only skaters I'm a fan of are Jason Brown, Alexandra Trusova and Dimitri Aliev, in that particular order. Is it not worthy for you? I may root for Tuktamisheva now and then to be fair. And even though I’m a fan of an Eteri skater it doesn't mean I'm not highly suspicious now about possible doping. I would never defend that.

 

[matin calin]

I can only suggest people from North America to watch more B ESP or any other European coverage, it is much more realistic and truthful to the situation. Now i realized that problem with North Americans is not that 'clean sport' narrative they are pushing, it is sadly and only about the medals. Because if Kamila were suspended, USA will get gold and Canada bronze... so let's just be real about what is behind all those media news. Unlike North America's media, there is no conflict of interest in Europe, so people can keep common sense there # sorry, not sorry

I have to say the contrast between the tone and quality of discussion on European and American media (including social media) is astounding, at least when it comes to the coverage of this situation.

Here where I live we always try to have what is called "a nuanced debate", which means that people try to have a balanced and open minded discussion with rational (rather than emotional) arguments, trying to see the whole picture and looking past own prejudice and emotions, and considering, and I mean genuinely considering, what your opponent has to say. It also means remaining humble, i.e. aware of your own limitations and critical of your own level of expertise. Yes it's much less pleasant and comforting than just accepting what conveniently fits your own views and waving off what does not, but Idk, I am used to it. What is going on the N-A media (and dare I say even big parts of this thread) feels so biased and frankly shallow.

 

[flipsydoodle]

Thanks!
The connection to the creatinine clearance is interesting as well, but logical. If your kidneys don't work properly, the the clearance will take much longer. The half-life ist the value in the blood, we need the clearance value.
I'm just not smart enough to do the calculation. I don't know what I should do with the Liter/hour value. Is it even liter? I'm used to ml for Milliliter, not mL...

I have exactly zero idea how clearance is calculated. However, the article I quoted provides that information—in not too indigestible form—and there were other scientific articles as well.
Another interesting idea I found..... TMZ is available in extended release tablets. That means, presumably, you could take it first thing before a training session and train for 8 hours (or whatever the pill is designed to do) with a very smooth infusion of the drug. Since it evidently facilitates oxygenation (angina inhibits blood flow, so a counter-drug would increase it, presumably), that would give an entire day of continuously smooth higher oxygenated blood to fuel muscles....
I am not an expert. This is my sense of the matter.

 

[silveruskate]

Are you talking about me? If you are not, and please disregard the rest of this message.

I don't know if you are a native English speaker, but "caught with their pants down" is an unsavory metaphor. And does not apply to me.

Finally, I am a she. I stand by all my opinions, I don't use a screen name. Henry is my real last name and El is my nickname. And Toller, my avatar, was a god among skaters.

I know you're a woman from the conversations in this thread! No, it was the post here....

And what's your point? They're not heart medication,but substances that can treat the heart? How does this make the one prohibited substance found less of a doping issue?

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I could give two hoots about the medals, and neither could any of the North American skating fans I know. We do admire Yuna's statement however.

Oh sorry, i forgot about YuNa fans. They are certainly the epitome of how fans should behave

 

[lariko]

Who knows, but why was she taking the two other medications? Is every skater taking them too? Even if they're not banned that still sounds dodgy, especially as pretty much all the skaters at Crystal apart from Moris are under 18.

If this was any other coaching team but Crystal would you be so quick to shrug it off?

L-carnitine is not a medication. It's a workout supplement, very, very, very common. It is naturally produced by the body. It helps restore the balance when people workout hard, particularly when they also have caloric restrictions, because you simply cannot maintain lean muscular mass via food intake. Please, guys, just worry about the banned substances.

 

[chuckm]

I've said Canada and USA. I don't see Japanese media is outraged with it, and i can't take other Tutk fans from this forum seriously too... And i will copy my post again to see that:
I can only suggest people from North America to watch more B ESP or any other European coverage, it is much more realistic and truthful to the situation. Now i realize that problem with North Americans is not that 'clean sport' narrative they are pushing, it is sadly and only about the medals (dumb me ). Because if Kamila were suspended, USA would get gold and Canada bronze... so let's just be real about what is behind all those media news. Unlike North America's media, there is no conflict of interest in Europe, so people can keep common sense there # sorry, not sorry

Do not lump the US and Canada together when it comes to the team medals. If Valieva isn't suspended, the US will get a medal anyway, and who cares what color it is. Canada probably wants a medal badly and can only get it if Valieva is suspended.

I personally don't give a rat's butt about the team medals. I'd like the US athletes who earned the medals to have them, but those medals are not what is making people in the US angry. It is the fact that again at this Olympics, doping is going on and this time in figure skating, and it involves a 15-yo girl, who still gets to compete despite having a banned substance in her body.

And no thank you, I will not watch European coverage because it is not available where I live, and even if it were, I don't need to be bombarded with the type of drivel we are getting from Russian apologists on this and other boards.

 

[Tavi...]

L-carnitine isn't heart medication and it is widely known and used as a supplement by athletes because it is also naturally found in food. It's similar to creatine. Hypoxen is the one I have no clue about.

The fact that NYT is leaking these kinds of details in such a sensitive case of a Protected Person is shameful. There has been so much leaking because certain people dislike the result. They really think they can reveal the medical information of a 15 year old like that?

The NYT didn’t leak the info and in fact was late to the game. The information is set forth in the WADA appeal and was embedded in a Russian website and was previously posted in this thread. The appeal is in English.

Камилу Валиеву решили не отстранять от Олимпийских игр

Мы узнали, как ее защита объясняла допинг в пробе

dossier-center.appspot.com

 

[Draculus]

Do not lump the US and Canada together when it comes to the team medals. If Valieva isn't suspended, the US will get a medal anyway, and who cares what color it is.

I'm assure you, literally millions care.

 

[el henry]

Oh sorry, i forgot about YuNa fans. They are certainly the epitome of how fans should behave

Did I say anything about her fans? I admire the statement from the woman herself. Who as far as I know, is not North American, does not live in North America, and is speaking from her culture and her background.

I can't say I've ever seen her skate, so I'm hardly a "fan" but I admire her statement.