Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[kan01]

He's not aggitated - spelling error - agitated - he's astutely observing and commentating.

She*

 

[Fanof]

I have an idea for making peace with Kamila Valieva and other skater. I propose to give Kamila her medal to the ranking that she finished in the team and individually. But to be just with other skater, they should remove her and pulling up the other skater Winning gold, silver and bronze.

For example if Kamila finish overall gold and for example if Anna is second overall, giving Kamila a sympathy gold and Anna the real Gold, and pull up all the other athletes. Example pull up USA, japan and Canada on the podium (gold, silver and bronze) and example pulling up Anna, Kaori and Alexandra (gold, silver and bronze). And giving and additionnel medal to Kamila in the ranking that she finish overall.

For me it doesn't matter if we give two gold medal in individual event if that make skater in peace with this story.

Disagree, although that's close to what they did in 2002. Either she is innocent, or she is guilty.

 

[Ziotic]

L-carnitine isn't heart medication and it is widely known and used as a supplement by athletes because it is also naturally found in food. It's similar to creatine. Hypoxen is the one I have no clue about.

The fact that NYT is leaking these kinds of details in such a sensitive case of a Protected Person is shameful. There has been so much leaking because certain people dislike the result. They really think they can reveal the medical information of a 15 year old like that?

Protected person or not, anyone who still believes the ingestion of TMZ along with TWO other heart medications is accidental is just blind.

I can see no other reason then a doping system for this to occur.

 

[Fanof]

I'm torn on the one hand it sucks on the other...well WTF is going on in Team Crystal? If your training methods are so brutal you need heart medications to survive them there's something seriously f'ed up.

RUSADA needs to invite WADA to Crystal and they need to go over that place with a fine toothed comb. Any "vitamins" need to be confiscated and checked, receipts for purchases of vitamins need to be checked. Computers, laptops...

In fact Crystal should personally invite them, if they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear.

I would be very disappointed if everything is not clean by now.

 

[matin calin]

There is a difference between medication and supplements.
If L-carnitine is a heart medication then vitamin C is a medication for atherosclerosis.

Atherosclerosis and vitamin C - PubMed

Following the chance observation that the author's serum-cholesterol could be varied between 140 and 230 mg. per 100 ml. by increasing the vitamin-C intake or by lowering it, a study was undertaken in healthy individuals and in patients with atherosclerosis. In healthy people under the age of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And vitamin D is a medication for cancer.

Effect of Vitamin D3 Supplements on Development of Advanced Cancer

This secondary analysis of a randomized clinical trial evaluates the effect vitamin D on the incidence of advanced (metastatic or fatal) cancer among adults without cancer at baseline and examines possible effect modification by body mass index.

jamanetwork.com

 

[el henry]

No but Kamila actually had mitigating factors. For example the time of the sampling being so late and yes being a Protected Person is a factor. I'm all for the age limit being raised, but it's a simple fact that she is 15. There is a chance she could have had the result on time with the hearing and been cleared for the Olympics before it started.

It's funny, you comment on there being no precedent for the CAS decision i.e. looking at other cases. But then argue against anybody else citing other cases too.

The cases would need to be similar. Personally, I didn't see any similarity, particularly in the way the discovery of the test results was treated. The case was presented as some sort of cover-up, when it was the complete opposite of a cover-up, as far as I could tell.

Also, were the WADA/USADA/IAAF rules the same in 1999? I honestly don't know.

I don't mind someone doing an actual analysis: here is a case with similar facts, (show how the facts are similar) similar substance (same), decided under the same rules, here was the outcome, and that is why Kamila's outcome should be different.

Not simply ohmagerd, American athletes doped and went through the process.

 

[silveruskate]

For those that don't believe it:

Even New York Times changed its article....

From:

But according to documents reviewed by The New York Times and confirmed by someone who took part in the hearing, the Stockholm laboratory that carried out the examination of Valieva’s sample also found evidence of two other heart medications, hypoxen and L-Carnatine, that are not on the banned list.

To:

But according to documents reviewed by The New York Times and confirmed by someone who took part in the hearing, the Stockholm laboratory that carried out the examination of Valieva’s sample also found evidence of two other substances that can treat the heart but are not on the banned list. Valieva even listed them, Hypoxen and L-carnitine, on a doping control form.

And to @millie I'm sure WebMD has doctors overseeing their articles too since hundreds of thousands, most likely millions will be looking at the article.

 

[jenaj]

I find it really disturbing that Kamila was taking these other medications which, whatever they are designed for, were not designed for improving athletic performance. Banned or not, I don't think young athletes (or any, for that matter) should be taking off-label drugs like these to improve their performance. It certainly makes me ask, what is going on in her training camp? How sad that this talented young girl apparently wasn't allowed to develop based on her talent alone.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Oh like Brennan bullying Diana Davis is just what journalists do too. This is a case of a 15 year old in a confidential case. Many times for example reputable outlets will not report on the name of a defendant even if they have this information as it's unethical. In some cases it's illegal. Spreading the private medical information of a 15 year old is action without integrity.

Anyways you make no comment about their headline claim of "L-cartinine is heart medication" which is a total lie. Peddling lies for clicks is the definition of gutter behaviour.

I can only suggest people from North America to watch more B ESP or any other European coverage, it is much more realistic and truthful to the situation. Now i realize that problem with North Americans is not that 'clean sport' narrative they are pushing, it is sadly and only about the medals (dumb me ). Because if Kamila were suspended, USA would get gold and Canada bronze... so let's just be real about what is behind all those media news. Unlike North America's media, there is no conflict of interest in Europe, so people can keep common sense there # sorry, not sorry

 

[taikwan]

Pretty sure a lawyer would say a mom is a least favorite witness. Why wouldn't a parent lie to protect their child?

Perfect response - of course we would.

 

[millie]

L-Carnitine: Overview, Uses, Side Effects, Precautions, Interactions, Dosing and Reviews

Learn more about L-Carnitine uses, effectiveness, possible side effects, interactions, dosage, user ratings and products that contain L-Carnitine.

www.webmd.com

L-carnitine is a chemical that is made in the human brain, liver, and kidneys. It helps the body turn fat into energy. L-carnitine is important for heart and brain function, muscle movement, and many other body processes. The body can convert L-carnitine to other chemicals called acetyl-L-carnitine and propionyl-L-carnitine. But it's not clear whether the benefits of these other carnitines are the same. L-carnitine is used to increase L-carnitine levels in people whose natural level of L-carnitine is too low. Some people also use L-carnitine for conditions of the heart and blood vessels, serious kidney disease, and many other conditions, but there is no good scientific evidence to support these uses.

Just because you use it in this way does not make it primarily heart medication. If I put milk in my eyes it doesn't make it eye drops.

If an athlete puts banned TMZ into their body it’s called doping!

 

[taikwan]

I'm not a big fan of any sport, not even hockey. I know that's blasphemy around here.

I would become a fan of figure skating if there was more of what Elizaveta Tuktamysheva did in october 2018!

Serious fan might not appreciate that kind of answer...

Oh, we LOVE the Empress!

 

[skatedreamer]

Teenager skater’s Winter Olympics doping scandal takes shock FBI twist

Russian officials involved in Kamila Valieva’s doping controversy could face 10 years in a US prison and fines of up to $1.4 million.

7news.com.au

Even if the US decides to pursue this, it will take years before the case goes to trial (if it gets that far). And you can bet that the ROC will go to the mat fighting it.

 

[el henry]

For those that don't believe it:

Even New York Times changed its article....

From:

But according to documents reviewed by The New York Times and confirmed by someone who took part in the hearing, the Stockholm laboratory that carried out the examination of Valieva’s sample also found evidence of two other heart medications, hypoxen and L-Carnatine, that are not on the banned list.

To:

But according to documents reviewed by The New York Times and confirmed by someone who took part in the hearing, the Stockholm laboratory that carried out the examination of Valieva’s sample also found evidence of two other substances that can treat the heart but are not on the banned list. Valieva even listed them, Hypoxen and L-carnitine, on a doping control form.

And to @millie I'm sure WebMD has doctors overseeing their articles since hundred of thousands or millions will be looking at the article.

Excellent! Just goes to show what reliable and conscientious journalists they are

Again, just because they release information that does not support a worldview of "Poor picked upon Kamila" sure as heck doesn't make it "gutter" journalism.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

Since the other substances are not banned, are you so sure they wouldn't be found in clean athletes' samples? Anyway, if they are legal, they are legal. Period. The only issue is TMZ (as regards doping).
As regards transforming a 15yo girl into a pharmaceutic laboratory on blades, I'm just sickened.

It´s not interesting for me if the the other substances are legal or not, it´s the mix of all of this together with the banned substance that is the shocking thing here. They are experimenting with a combination of heart medications on a child. A child who doesn´t know what is good for her or not in the long term.

Also reading about the two other substances, all though they are not banned, I find it hard to believe that children can just go and buy it themselves. There should be age limit to buy it.

 

[kan01]

For those that don't believe it:

Even New York Times changed its article....

From:

But according to documents reviewed by The New York Times and confirmed by someone who took part in the hearing, the Stockholm laboratory that carried out the examination of Valieva’s sample also found evidence of two other heart medications, hypoxen and L-Carnatine, that are not on the banned list.

To:

But according to documents reviewed by The New York Times and confirmed by someone who took part in the hearing, the Stockholm laboratory that carried out the examination of Valieva’s sample also found evidence of two other substances that can treat the heart but are not on the banned list. Valieva even listed them, Hypoxen and L-carnitine, on a doping control form.

And to @millie I'm sure WebMD has doctors overseeing their articles too since hundreds of thousands, most likely millions will be looking at the article.

And what's your point? They're not heart medication,but substances that can treat the heart? How does this make the one prohibited substance found less of a doping issue?

 

[silveruskate]

If an athlete puts banned TMZ into their body it’s called doping!

I do not disagree. (Although I would not call Kamila a doper or cheater as she is a child.) But so then you're on my side now in this case of L-Carnatine? As you decline to mention it.

 

[silveruskate]

And what's your point? They're not heart medication,but substances that can treat the heart? How does this make the one prohibited substance found less of a doping issue?

You guys were the ones to vehemently disagree with me. I just mentioned how false the article was! (Not even quoting anybody.) So don't turn this back on me please.

 

[kan01]

I can only suggest people from North America to watch more B ESP or any other European coverage, it is much more realistic and truthful to the situation. Now i realize that problem with North Americans is not that 'clean sport' narrative they are pushing, it is sadly and only about the medals (dumb me ). Because if Kamila were suspended, USA will get gold and Canada bronze... so let's just be real about what is behind all those media news. Unlike North America's media, there is no conflict of interest in Europe, so people can keep common sense there # sorry, not sorry

I'm European and I think letting Valieva compete is a disgrace. Period.

 

[taikwan]

Since the other substances are not banned, are you so sure they wouldn't be found in clean athletes' samples? Anyway, if they are legal, they are legal. Period. The only issue is TMZ (as regards doping).
As regards transforming a 15yo girl into a pharmaceutic laboratory on blades, I'm just sickened.

But found in her system......all at the same time?????? Does that compound the entire equation?