- Joined
- Jan 14, 2014
Yup, they could have thought of something different after the CAS and RUSADA backed them into the corner. There's been at least one suggestion in this thread.
Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups
- Thread starter GS Forum Staff
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
You're looking for the term "irreparable harm"
and It's another less than ideal argument in their statementbecause taking away any period of an athlete's career could potentially be harmful for building momentum,
gaining confidence and reputation, reeling in sponsors and so on, and it also ignores the potential harm
to the rest of the specific field.
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- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
If she feels innocent and if she is innocent she will take her gold. If the IOC postpone the ceremony it's their business - not hers and her team.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
Western media pressure is the last thing she cares about now. It could become in the future when talking about endorsements.
Starting from participating in senior test skates last season despite being too young till this Olympics episode, it’s mind blowing how much special treatment Kamila has received. Eteri has certainly worked a lot to make her Olympic champion.
It doesn’t matter that she’s not doping now. Point is- she shouldn’t have been allowed to compete at all. Had she not been a minor- I don’t think she’d have skated last night. That seemed to be the loophole.
Kamila is really lovely to watch though. Whatever “it” is, she has it. Such a shame. The other 2 Russian girls are obviously very talented, but KV really has something special imo.
I thought it was interesting listening to Tara and Johnny’s commentary last night: they were pretty muted and businesslike about the other 2 Russian girls too. I sure didn’t get any enthusiasm in their tone. Practically monotone.
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Just a few thoughts
1) As everyone knows, "where the anti-doping rule violation not involving a Substance of Abuse is committed by a Protected Person or Recreational Athlete, and the Protected Person or Recreational Athlete can
establish No Significant Fault or Negligence, then the period of Ineligibility
shall be, at a minimum, a reprimand and no period of Ineligibility, and at a
maximum, two (2) years Ineligibility, depending on the Protected Person or
Recreational Athlete’s degree of Fault."
Let's see what a significant fault or negligence is.
"No Significant Fault or Negligence: The Athlete or other Person’s establishing that any Fault or Negligence, when viewed in the totality of the circumstances and taking into account the criteria for No Fault or Negligence, was not significant in relationship to the anti-doping rule violation. Except in the case of a Protected Person or Recreational Athlete, for any violation of Article 2.1 [which is the case here], the Athlete must also establish how the Prohibited Substance entered the Athlete’s system."
And for the record, "No Fault or Negligence: The Athlete or other Person’s establishing that he or she did not know or suspect, and could not reasonably have known or suspected even with the exercise of utmost caution, that he or she had Used or been administered the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method or otherwise violated
an anti-doping rule. Except in the case of a Protected Person or Recreational Athlete, for any violation of Article 2.1, the Athlete
must also establish how the Prohibited Substance entered the Athlete’s system."
Since she is a protected person, I'm not even sure she had to explain that she drank from her grandfather's glass. I'm not sure she meets the burden of proof.
2) Since the sample is from a domestic event, I assume it's up to Rusada to punish her?
3) As stressed by Wada, nothing in the Wada code provides for a lift of the provisional suspension because the athlete is a protected person. But now, since she has been allowed to compete and given that the final decision was a 3-month ban for the Chinese swimmer, I assume that unless something huge is discovered, the final decision, whether by Rusada or CAS, will be a ban between 0 and 6 weeks. 6 weeks from 25 December is 5 February. The TE Ladies event was on 6 February
Well, I don't know, but I think she will get her medals, bestowed to her by a humiliated IOC in a few months.
4) I don't understand why Russia should be banned (I'm not Russian) because of that. In fact I don't understand why Russia was banned. Punish the culprits, but no collective punishment please.
5) I don't understand the witch hunt regarding ET and her team regarding her training methods (once again, I'm not Russian). We are talking about the best skaters in the world, and the best skaters' lives can't be normal lives. Once again, I 'm not so much into gymnastics, but as far as I know, the shape of the vault was changed because of accidents, the Thomas salto was banned because of accidents... So if you think that quads are too demanding for adult female skaters (which I think since, so to speak, only Russian skinny teenagers with broken backs at 17-18 can jump quads), raise the age limit and ban quads for the ladies events. But if it is legal for women/girls to jump quads, don't be surprised if you get light and skinny teenagers with overexhausting training methods. By the way, when I watch AS or AT, I don't see bullied children, but I may be wrong.
6) A little bit off topic: yesterday I watched the ladies sp. Of course KV's sp was less good, so I watched her team event sp once again. What a masterpiece. I must say that during 2 minutes and 50 seconds, whether she is doped or not was just irrelevant. It's awful, isn't it?
1) As everyone knows, "where the anti-doping rule violation not involving a Substance of Abuse is committed by a Protected Person or Recreational Athlete, and the Protected Person or Recreational Athlete can
establish No Significant Fault or Negligence, then the period of Ineligibility
shall be, at a minimum, a reprimand and no period of Ineligibility, and at a
maximum, two (2) years Ineligibility, depending on the Protected Person or
Recreational Athlete’s degree of Fault."
Let's see what a significant fault or negligence is.
"No Significant Fault or Negligence: The Athlete or other Person’s establishing that any Fault or Negligence, when viewed in the totality of the circumstances and taking into account the criteria for No Fault or Negligence, was not significant in relationship to the anti-doping rule violation. Except in the case of a Protected Person or Recreational Athlete, for any violation of Article 2.1 [which is the case here], the Athlete must also establish how the Prohibited Substance entered the Athlete’s system."
And for the record, "No Fault or Negligence: The Athlete or other Person’s establishing that he or she did not know or suspect, and could not reasonably have known or suspected even with the exercise of utmost caution, that he or she had Used or been administered the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method or otherwise violated
an anti-doping rule. Except in the case of a Protected Person or Recreational Athlete, for any violation of Article 2.1, the Athlete
must also establish how the Prohibited Substance entered the Athlete’s system."
Since she is a protected person, I'm not even sure she had to explain that she drank from her grandfather's glass. I'm not sure she meets the burden of proof.
2) Since the sample is from a domestic event, I assume it's up to Rusada to punish her?
3) As stressed by Wada, nothing in the Wada code provides for a lift of the provisional suspension because the athlete is a protected person. But now, since she has been allowed to compete and given that the final decision was a 3-month ban for the Chinese swimmer, I assume that unless something huge is discovered, the final decision, whether by Rusada or CAS, will be a ban between 0 and 6 weeks. 6 weeks from 25 December is 5 February. The TE Ladies event was on 6 February
Well, I don't know, but I think she will get her medals, bestowed to her by a humiliated IOC in a few months.4) I don't understand why Russia should be banned (I'm not Russian) because of that. In fact I don't understand why Russia was banned. Punish the culprits, but no collective punishment please.
5) I don't understand the witch hunt regarding ET and her team regarding her training methods (once again, I'm not Russian). We are talking about the best skaters in the world, and the best skaters' lives can't be normal lives. Once again, I 'm not so much into gymnastics, but as far as I know, the shape of the vault was changed because of accidents, the Thomas salto was banned because of accidents... So if you think that quads are too demanding for adult female skaters (which I think since, so to speak, only Russian skinny teenagers with broken backs at 17-18 can jump quads), raise the age limit and ban quads for the ladies events. But if it is legal for women/girls to jump quads, don't be surprised if you get light and skinny teenagers with overexhausting training methods. By the way, when I watch AS or AT, I don't see bullied children, but I may be wrong.
6) A little bit off topic: yesterday I watched the ladies sp. Of course KV's sp was less good, so I watched her team event sp once again. What a masterpiece. I must say that during 2 minutes and 50 seconds, whether she is doped or not was just irrelevant. It's awful, isn't it?
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
Maybe google isn’t such a good place to educate yourself on things either. I’d be curious as to where you learned that taking TMZ makes you able to practice 12 hrs a day for example. Here is what one expert (cardiologist) has said regarding TMZ and it’s unknown yet potential to be a performance enhancing substance.
I’ll post the link to the whole story if you are interested but my point remains that without major studies having been conducted on TMZ in elite athletes I would suspect an expert would take a much more nuanced approach and refrain from interjecting hyperbolic speculation as it pertains to the actual effects and or duration of those effects.
One must pause and take note that the two leading side effects of TMZ are dizziness and loss of balance. I’d think the possibility that TMZ could just as easily reduce a critical practice as much as it could extend one is pertinent information based on empirical scientific data.
NPR NEWS ARTICLE LINK HERE
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- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
But L-Carnitine is banned in some formats. We don’t know if Valieva was given pills, which would be permissible. Infusions are banned, and partially what got Salazar a coach ban.
AFAIK anything passed out in urine would be a “trace” amount. Emphasizing “trace” is a red herring. The proportion of the “trace” could presumably be affected by processes like water intake, kidney function, intake before or after a meal, metabolism, concentration of the dose etc. For instance, I could have eaten a slice of carrot cake yesterday, and I’d have a trace of carotene. Or, I could have eaten a pound of carrots, and have a trace. Or maybe not. All depends.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
They better get their story straight: first it was accidental sharing a glass with her Grandpa who has a heart condition and then suddenly a new revelation - Kamila herself has a heart condition (must be genetic?) and was taking it for that condition , a cocktail of heart drugs as a matter of fact. What is next?
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
I would feel bad for her, but she'd need a suspension. Immediately.
Sadly Kamila is not allowed to testify against the real culprits, so she can and will only look like a liar
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
There would be no reason to take a banned substance unless it gave competitive advantage.
Yes, I think they got caught in the web of their own lies...
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
Just a few thoughts
1) As everyone knows, "where the anti-doping rule violation not involving a Substance of Abuse is committed by a Protected Person or Recreational Athlete, and the Protected Person or Recreational Athlete can
establish No Significant Fault or Negligence, then the period of Ineligibility
shall be, at a minimum, a reprimand and no period of Ineligibility, and at a
maximum, two (2) years Ineligibility, depending on the Protected Person or
Recreational Athlete’s degree of Fault."
Let's see what a significant fault or negligence is.
"No Significant Fault or Negligence: The Athlete or other Person’s establishing that any Fault or Negligence, when viewed in the totality of the circumstances and taking into account the criteria for No Fault or Negligence, was not significant in relationship to the anti-doping rule violation. Except in the case of a Protected Person or Recreational Athlete, for any violation of Article 2.1 [which is the case here], the Athlete must also establish how the Prohibited Substance entered the Athlete’s system."
And for the record, "No Fault or Negligence: The Athlete or other Person’s establishing that he or she did not know or suspect, and could not reasonably have known or suspected even with the exercise of utmost caution, that he or she had Used or been administered the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method or otherwise violated
an anti-doping rule. Except in the case of a Protected Person or Recreational Athlete, for any violation of Article 2.1, the Athlete
must also establish how the Prohibited Substance entered the Athlete’s system."
Since she is a protected person, I'm not even sure she had to explain that she drank from her grandfather's glass. I'm not sure she meets the burden of proof.
2) Since the sample is from a domestic event, I assume it's up to Rusada to punish her?
3) As stressed by Wada, nothing in the Wada code provides for a lift of the provisional suspension because the athlete is a protected person. But now, since she has been allowed to compete and given that the final decision was a 3-month ban for the Chinese swimmer, I assume that unless something huge is discovered, the final decision, whether by Rusada or CAS, will be a ban between 0 and 6 weeks. 6 weeks from 25 December is 5 February. The TE Ladies event was on 6 February
4) I don't understand why Russia should be banned (I'm not Russian) because of that. In fact I don't understand why Russia was banned. Punish the culprits, but no collective punishment please.
5) I don't understand the witch hunt regarding ET and her team regarding her training methods (once again, I'm not Russian). We are talking about the best skaters in the world, and the best skaters' lives can't be normal lives. Once again, I 'm not so much into gymnastics, but as far as I know, the shape of the vault was changed because of accidents, the Thomas salto was banned because of accidents... So if you think that quads are too demanding for adult female skaters (which I think since, so to speak, only Russian skinny teenagers with broken backs at 17-18 can jump quads), raise the age limit and ban quads for the ladies events. But if it is legal for women/girls to jump quads, don't be surprised if you get light and skinny teenagers with overexhausting training methods. By the way, when I watch AS or AT, I don't see bullied children, but I may be wrong.
6) A little bit off topic: yesterday I watched the ladies sp. Of course KV's sp was less good, so I watched her team event sp once again. What a masterpiece. I must say that during 2 minutes and 50 seconds, whether she is doped or not was just irrelevant. It's awful, isn't it?
If the investigators find the Grandfather story (or whatever their future defence might be) credible
and if there is no substantial international pressure against it I can totally see them getting off,
them being her separately as a minor and the team around her, I can also see a team doctor or assistant
coach of some sort as a scapegoat if they feel pressured enough by whatever scale of investigation
they might face.
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On the efficacy of the drug on figure skating and Valieva in particular, heart expert Dr. Benjamin J. Levine, a professor of exercise science at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School, said “The chance that trimetazidine would improve her performance, in my opinion, is zero. The heart has plenty of blood. And the heart is so good at using different fuels.”[20]
There have been cases in which the substance has been unknowingly and innocently taken by an athlete in a vitamin pill they were taking, as happened with a swimmer in 2018, I believe.
There have been cases in which the substance has been unknowingly and innocently taken by an athlete in a vitamin pill they were taking, as happened with a swimmer in 2018, I believe.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
VK.com | VK
vk.com
If anyone is interested in Dr. Filipp Shvetsky, there was an interview with him on vk last February. Google translate does a pretty good job with it
He is the guy likely to get any significant punishment in this case, if indeed, anyone has any long term negative consequences.
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2020
Who are "they"? It's not like these scenarios have been claimed by Kamila or her representatives. How many "leaks" and gossips we get to hear before the official version is substantiated is hard to predict. And all of them will be seen as Kamila herself changing her story?
Jesus why are people so uncritical...
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2011
Not sure where the Valieva has a heart condition has come from, but the changing of stories or adding of details looks bad. Like no one was believing the grandpa glass story so its changed. And if the story is now that she is taking for a health condition then that's a slam dunk suspension (from where I'm sitting) TUEs are available and if she has 1 there would not have been this red alarm of a positive test or it would have been the first detail to be announced with a 'we forgot to file the paperwork or filed the wrong paperwork'.
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