Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups | Page 196 | Golden Skate

Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

There would be no reason to take a banned substance unless it gave competitive advantage.
I mean Olympic athletes will do all sorts of crazy and harmful things to their bodies to achieve a competitive advantage. I do agree. Without seeing an athlete’s medical history I’d just be adding speculation as to any reason she or anyone may be taking a number of things. Not just banned substances.

I wasn’t intending to take a position regarding Kamila. I have no real opinion on the matter until far more details are made public, I was just trying to offer insight about TMZ that I found interesting and add to the perspective.
 
Who are "they"? It's not like these scenarios have been claimed by Kamila or her representatives. How many "leaks" and gossips we get to hear before the official version is substantiated is hard to predict. And all of them will be seen as Kamila herself changing her story?

Jesus why are people so uncritical...

I agree that at times like that is difficult to keep track of all the information. I read this morning about Kamila's heart condition but now I can not trace it back. With Grandpa I wonder how it all worked - she is based in Moscow he is apparently in Kazan 790km away. Surely she was at her training base preparing for RN and at St Petersburg during the RN, it is just not adding up.
 
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I mean Olympic athletes will do all sorts of crazy and harmful things to their bodies to achieve a competitive advantage. I do agree. Without seeing an athlete’s medical history I’d just be adding speculation as to any reason she or anyone may be taking a number of things. Not just banned substances.

I wasn’t intending to take a position regarding Kamila. I have no real opinion on the matter until far more details are made public, I was just trying to offer insight about TMZ that I found interesting and add to the perspective.
Would you think that if the minor had a heart condition and were given this cocktail of drugs including TMZ for a heart condition, that this would be in her medical records. Knowing that she was going to be tested for banned drugs in her system, to inform, not the public, but the Olympic committee that she was on this drug plus other supplements for her heart condition. The only thing that these people are sorry for, is they got caught. They ruined the Olympic for so many people. Kamila skated, but to see and hear the disgust in the commentators, said it all. She should not have been there. To see Etrie and her cronies in the Kiss and Cry gloating, made me sick..
 
They better get their story straight: first it was accidental sharing a glass with her Grandpa who has a heart condition and then suddenly a new revelation - Kamila herself has a heart condition (must be genetic?) and was taking it for that condition , a cocktail of heart drugs as a matter of fact. What is next?
I think the grandfather story has cost Kamila a lot of sympathy.
 
Instead of punishing everyone else why not just have a medal ceremony and if she medals, leave her spot on the podium unattended?
Because if it is later decided that she should be disqualified, the medals will have to be redistributed and re-awared. The IOC wants to award the medals only once. Presumably, they told this to the arbitration panel but the panel decided that the harm to Kamila of not competing was greater.
 
So now because of NYT they're all spinning L-Carnitine as heart medication. We don't know why she took L-Carnitine when it's a common supplement but they want to make it sound like a cocktail of heart drugs, shoddy journalism knew it. Not to mention the only source is somebody against Kamila that is leaking against WADA rules against a minor.

It's not difficult to argue that US media in particular is trying to brief against her. Johnny/Tara desperately trying to wash their hands clean perpetuated it.
 
Since she is a protected person, I'm not even sure she had to explain that she drank from her grandfather's glass. I'm not sure she meets the burden of proof.

(snip)
This all presupposes that an investigation establishes "No Significant Fault or Negligence" on the part of Valieva. I know that most of us want to assume this 15-year-old girl is completely innocent and that, even if there was actual doping involved, it was done by her coaches and/or doctors without her knowledge; but that might not be the case. That stance presupposes a certain ignorance and naïveté by Valieva that wouldn't seemingly match the experiences of her peers.

I linked to a paper on junior Russian athletes' attitudes towards supplementation and medication earlier, but I think it's worth bringing up again (not only because of the considerations of both Hypoxen and L-Carnitine). (Note: for this particular study, "junior" is being used to describe "individuals between the age of 19 and 22 years old.")

In an examination of the origins of these athletes' attitudes towards supplementation and medication, the (Russian) author does remark that "a large part of the responsibility for the use of supplements seems to lie with the doctors, the coaches, and the sport federations" (98), but the study participants don't come across as ignorant, manipulated dupes. These junior Russian athletes are aware, for example, that there is "Systematic use of medications for performance enhancement," (91) and they believe these "Medications can improve physiological functions and give performance advantage (e.g., increased capacity to transport oxygen and nutrients; increased cell metabolism, improved resistance to hypoxia)." (92)

Additionally, they're absolutely aware of the possibility of doping. The author remarks in multiple places about how they had taken part in "numerous anti-doping courses," and the author also believes that they've developed "good routines for checking medications for prohibited ingredients." (100 and elsewhere) The athletes also believe that, despite the perceived benefits of the supplements and medications, these substances "Might be prohibited under WADA code; risk of a positive doping test" and "'Serious' medications are controversial - connected to cheating and shame, even though they are legal." (92)

None of this paints the picture of young athletes blithely unaware of the realities of supplementation and medication and the possibilities of doping. There's even some mentions of how the athletes sometimes follow their friend's advice, including advice on sources of supply, and even experiment out of their own curiosity. "[T]he Russian athletes consider supplements and medications to be an essential part of their sporting life. In keeping with this belief, the athletes are both willing and motivated to take various substances." (94)

I think it's also worth mentioning that while this study focused on the use of non-prohibited substances, the author acknowledges: "Based on the existing research, the fact that Russian athletes believe in the effectiveness of non-prohibited substances appears suggestive of Russian doping susceptibility. A quantitative study by Hurst et al. (2019) suggests that if athletes believe in the effectiveness of legal performance enhancement, then they are more likely to be susceptible to doping. Beliefs and experiences among the Russian athletes are also similar to the findings of Lentillon-Kaestner and Carstairs (2010), where elite young cyclists were convinced about the necessity of NS and had a strong belief in their effectiveness, which resulted in ample use of legal performance-enhancing substances and methods as well as increased openness towards doping in the future." (96)

I'd love nothing more than for Kamila to be incontrovertibly exonerated. Like I commented to my partner during the short program, I wish we could go back to the days when the biggest controversy around Kamila was how awful her costumes are this season or how boring her Bolero program is. But we shouldn't dismiss outright the possibility that she was knowingly doping.
 
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Because if it is later decided that she should be disqualified, the medals will have to be redistributed and re-awared. The IOC wants to award the medals only once. Presumably, they told this to the arbitration panel but the panel decided that the harm to Kamila of not competing was greater.

I think the IOC would like to avoid the additional blowback they'd get from photographs of a doped athlete on the medal stand, basking in the glow of her victory. Even if she is eventually exhonerated, that's still bad optics.
 
Pretty sure a lawyer would say a mom is a least favorite witness. Why wouldn't a parent lie to protect their child?

The thing is in a court of law or police investigation, a witness is a witness no matter the relationship to the accused. The prosecutors in a criminal case can't discount a witness just because he/she is related to the accused.

Kamila's excuse is really the new "the dog ate my homework" excuse.
 
I think the grandfather story has cost Kamila a lot of sympathy.
It may have.

I expected something along those lines anyway- something that absolved coaches, doctors, etc from any responsibility.

I still have sympathy for her. She’s very young. And I’m sure she’s just doing exactly what the adults around her are advising her to do. And- who knows how much she even really knows?
 
It may have.

I expected something along those lines anyway- something that absolved coaches, doctors, etc from any responsibility.

I still have sympathy for her. She’s very young. And I’m sure she’s just doing exactly what the adults around her are advising her to do. And- who knows how much she even really knows?
She is being manipulated, for sure. But Kamila is not 7. She is 15. Most 15 year olds are not shy about expressing their views to their mother. At some level, she must be going along with this story, which strains credulity.
 
It may have.

I expected something along those lines anyway- something that absolved coaches, doctors, etc from any responsibility.

I still have sympathy for her. She’s very young. And I’m sure she’s just doing exactly what the adults around her are advising her to do. And- who knows how much she even really knows?
This child is still being manipulated by the adults around her.

This ridiculous drinking glass story innoculates the adults against future scrutiny. "How can you believe this child? After the lies she's already told!"
 
This child is still being manipulated by the adults around her.

This ridiculous drinking glass story innoculates the adults against future scrutiny. "How can you believe this child? After the lies she's already told!"
Good point. It will take another whistleblower to implicate her coaching team, if they are in fact responsible.
 
This all presupposes that an investigation establishes "No Significant Fault or Negligence" on the part of Valieva. I know that most of us want to assume this 15-year-old girl is completely innocent and that, even if there was actual doping involved, it was done by her coaches and/or doctors without her knowledge; but that might not be the case. That stance presupposes a certain ignorance and naïveté by Valieva that wouldn't seemingly match the experiences of her peers.

I linked to a paper on junior Russian athletes' attitudes towards supplementation and medication earlier, but I think it's worth bringing up again (not only because of the considerations of both Hypoxen and L-Carnitine).

In an examination of the origins of these athletes' attitudes towards supplementation and medication, the (Russian) author does remark that "a large part of the responsibility for the use of supplements seems to lie with the doctors, the coaches, and the sport federations" (98), but the study participants don't come across as ignorant, manipulated dupes. These junior Russian athletes are aware, for example, that there is "Systematic use of medications for performance enhancement," (91) and they believe these "Medications can improve physiological functions and give performance advantage (e.g., increased capacity to transport oxygen and nutrients; increased cell metabolism, improved resistance to hypoxia)." (92)

Additionally, they're absolutely aware of the possibility of doping. The author remarks in multiple places about how they had taken part in "numerous anti-doping courses," and the author also believes that they've developed "good routines for checking medications for prohibited ingredients." (100 and elsewhere) The athletes also believe that, despite the perceived benefits of the supplements and medications, these substances "Might be prohibited under WADA code; risk of a positive doping test" and "'Serious' medications are controversial - connected to cheating and shame, even though they are legal." (92)

None of this paints the picture of young athletes blithely unaware of the realities of supplementation and medication and the possibilities of doping. There's even some mentions of how the athletes sometimes follow their friend's advice, including advice on sources of supply, and even experiment out of their own curiosity. "[T]he Russian athletes consider supplements and medications to be an essential part of their sporting life. In keeping with this belief, the athletes are both willing and motivated to take various substances." (94)

I think it's also worth mentioning that while this study focused on the use of non-prohibited substances, the author acknowledges: "Based on the existing research, the fact that Russian athletes believe in the effectiveness of non-prohibited substances appears suggestive of Russian doping susceptibility. A quantitative study by Hurst et al. (2019) suggests that if athletes believe in the effectiveness of legal performance enhancement, then they are more likely to be susceptible to doping. Beliefs and experiences among the Russian athletes are also similar to the findings of Lentillon-Kaestner and Carstairs (2010), where elite young cyclists were convinced about the necessity of NS and had a strong belief in their effectiveness, which resulted in ample use of legal performance-enhancing substances and methods as well as increased openness towards doping in the future." (96)

I'd love nothing more than for Kamila to be incontrovertibly exonerated. Like I commented to my partner during the short program, I wish we could go back to the days when the biggest controversy around Kamila was how awful her costumes are this season or how boring her Bolero program is. But we shouldn't dismiss outright the possibility that she was knowingly doping.
Just FYI, "junior" in this study refers to 19-22 years old.

1.2.1 Junior elite endurance athletes

In the present project, the word "junior" refers to individuals between the age of 19 and 22 years old which is the international age group for junior athletes in a studied sport.
 
This child is still being manipulated by the adults around her.

This ridiculous drinking glass story innoculates the adults against future scrutiny. "How can you believe this child? After the lies she's already told!"
Oh- IA. I don’t find her story credible right now.

I just have some sympathy for her. What a mess.
 
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