Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Arigato]

I can only suggest people from North America to watch more B ESP or any other European coverage, it is much more realistic and truthful to the situation. Now i realize that problem with North Americans is not that 'clean sport' narrative they are pushing, it is sadly and only about the medals (dumb me ). Because if Kamila were suspended, USA would get gold and Canada bronze... so let's just be real about what is behind all those media news. Unlike North America's media, there is no conflict of interest in Europe, so people can keep common sense there # sorry, not sorry

I'm tired of people cheating in sports and lying about it. The dog ate my homework just doesn't cut it.

 

[skatedreamer]

You can come up with a better analogy than that, I hope

Why? The analogy applies. But here's another one; maybe it will help if it hits closer to home:

If somebody stole your wallet 2 months ago, wouldn't you still want them to be caught and prosecuted?​

 

[readernick]

I have been trying to avoid arguing with people in this thread, I only care about facts. I am not a lawyer, I only had some experiences sitting in grand jury, and the most import instruction I got is: facts!

I had the impression that your worked for some law firm? Well, looks like you yourself is probably not a lawyer, because you have been speculating a lot, and you don't really care about "due process" and "Innocent Until Proven Guilty". So l am not going to engage here. I'll wait for the facts.

So basically, once again, "I don't like what you have presented but I don't have any reasonable way to dispute it so I'm going to insult you personally." @el henry really should be proud. She presents arguments in such a logical way that apparently others have nothing to resort to except for personal insults

 

[4everchan]

Why? The analogy applies. But here's another one; maybe it will help if it hits closer to home:

If somebody stole your wallet 2 months ago, wouldn't you still want them to be caught and prosecuted?​

HAHA good one... somehow I feel that "as long as someone returns the wallet, there won't be any prosecution"

 

[el henry]

I have been trying to avoid arguing with people in this thread, I only care about facts. I am not a lawyer, I only had some experiences sitting in grand jury, and the most import instruction I got is: facts!

I had the impression that your worked for some law firm? Well, looks like you yourself is probably not a lawyer, because you have been speculating a lot, and you don't really care about "due process" and "Innocent Until Proven Guilty". So l am not going to engage here. I'll wait for the facts.

I was only trying to explain why the story had gained traction in the US, and it truly is not whipped up by some media with an agenda, at least where I live and the media I read. This was not a legal argument, so I apologize if it sounded like one.

I am a retired career fed (short for federal government employee). I only wish I had worked for a big firm (not really) I would have the money to travel the world to skating competitions. At least, when we can travel the world again.

and I respect your decision not to engage, so (That's not sarcastic, because sometimes this doesn't work online)

 

[Decoder]

So basically, once again, "I don't like what you have presented but I don't have any reasonable way to dispute it so I'm going to insult you personally." @el henry really should be proud. She presents arguments in such a logical way that apparently others have nothing to resort to except for personal insults

What logic? Your logic? Or the law?

 

[anonymoose_au]

I do realize that doping is still doping...but could anyone plz explain where you got these 'Russia being late in sending the sample' ideas from?

That's one of the mysteries, I remember an article saying the RUSADA people gave it to the WADA people - or at least their courier ASAP. But the sample itself wasn't receipted by the Swedish lab until 19th January.

If the RUSADA story is true then the sample (and others I guess since they wouldn't send just one) was in the hands of WADA courier and therefore their responsibility. Although there hasn't been anymore info on this.

It is interesting because as I said they would surely send sample in batches so what time did all the samples for the test of the other athletes at Russian Nats get receipted. If there's a difference that's a whole new can of worms.

 

[skatedreamer]

HAHA good one... somehow I feel that "as long as someone returns the wallet, there won't be any prosecution"

yeah, yeah...point taken. I just KNEW I should have stuck with el henry's example!

 

[Decoder]

I was only trying to explain why the story had gained traction in the US, and it truly is not whipped up by some media with an agenda, at least where I live and the media I read. This was not a legal argument, so I apologize if it sounded like one.

I am a retired career fed (short for federal government employee). I only wish I had worked for a big firm (not really) I would have the money to travel the world to skating competitions. At least, when we can travel the world again.

and I respect your decision not to engage, so (That's not sarcastic, because sometimes this doesn't work online)

I was assuming you were a lawyer (incorrectly) and thus I expressed my opinion against your take on this matter, and if this offended you, I apologize.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

And you found this NPR article presumably through Google? I think Dr. dePasquale explains well why this drug is not approved in the USA, let alone available as an over the counter drug. And that is all.

Here are more physicians speaking about the effects of Trimetazidine:

"If you're in a highly exertional sport, where you're using a lot of energy and you're putting your heart under significant stress, it certainly could help your heart function better theoretically," MedStar Georgetown University Hospital medical toxicology physician Kelly Johnson-Arbor told the newswire.

What is the banned drug trimetazidine taken by Russian skater Kamila Valieva?

Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva, a favorite to win gold in the women’s figure skating competition at the Beijing Olympics 2022, has been at the center of a doping controversy.Valiev…

thehill.com

“Trimetazidine helps the cells in the heart maintains their energy metabolism in the event of a reduced oxygen supply, increasing the efficiency of blood flow and hence improving endurance,” said Dr. Bradley Katz, a professor and physician at the University of Utah Medical Center and CEO of Axon Optics.

Katz said trimetazidine could theoretically improve heart function in athletes, especially in endurance sports when athletes are exerting a lot of energy.

Healthline: Medical information and health advice you can trust.

We're committed to being your source for expert health guidance. Come to us in your pursuit of wellness.

www.healthline.com

"TMZ can be used by athletes to improve physical efficiency, especially in the case of endurance sports," explained a 2014 study, which looked at Polish athletes who had been caught taking the drug. WADA has listed trimetazidine as a banned substance since 2014, and athletes are prohibited from using it at all times. The drug is typically prescribed for people with angina, or chest pain that results from reduced blood flow to the heart

Here's Why Trimetazidine Is Banned From Olympic Sports

Trimetazidine is a metabolic modulator banned by the World Anti-Doping Association due to its ability to increase blood-flow efficiency.

www.popsugar.com

And from skaters themselves about "endurance doping"




I don't understand the rush to excuse taking this banned substance. But, the excuses don't matter. The taking of it does.

Honestly I’m a big nerd for NPR and often start my searches there before I branch out

NPR SEARCH QUERY

To be clear though I was responding to a rather hyperbolic reference to being able to skate for 12 hrs straight doing the hardest elements on TMZ. I’m not excusing using a banned substance, My point was that significant data on TMZ really doesn’t exist as being either beneficial or detrimental to athletic endurance but most importantly there is zero evidence that suggests taking TMZ will be having you do quads for 12 hrs straight.

I’m not saying it’s ok to ignore WADA rules either. I think if you break the rules you should be subject to any investigation and process leading to subsequent punishment or exoneration you as an athlete may face. It’s part of being an international competitor. That said....I still think it’s very important to keep the scientific information put forth in a thread like this as accurate as possible and free of exaggeration. To me it helps keep things in perspective.

 

[doreen95]

Russian Doping Scandal Fallout: FBI Could Investigate And Coaches Prosecuted Over Valieva Case

There will still be a full investigation into Valieva, even though she’s allowed to compete this week.

www.forbes.com

Bad news for Eteri coaches team, they cannot travel to US and all other countries which have extradition treaties with United States.

Canada, Japan, South Korea...and more

List of United States extradition treaties - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Good news for Eteri coaches team, they can still travel to China and North Korea.

Eteri & Co. are Russian citizens. They are not under the legal authority of the US so they cannot be prosecuted by US agencies. That would be serious violation of international law.

And don't get me wrong I want them to be sent to prison immediately because of child abuse. But US has nothing to do with them.

 

[Greengemmonster]

Eteri & Co. are Russian citizens. They are not under the legal authority of the US so they cannot be prosecuted by US agencies. That would be serious violation of international law.

And don't get me wrong I want them to be sent to prison immediately because of child abuse. But US has nothing to do with them.

Yeah that's what I thought as well!

Although technically can the government refuse their entry into the country on account of them being undesirable?

Hehe the Australian government had a lot of fun with Novax Djokovic

I am just curious! I am sure the government does not give a flying fig about Eteri or however she trains her charges!

 

[skatedreamer]

Of course, any data derived from "my family and friends" is incontrovertible.

Same here. I've even been known to share the odd drinking glass with mine occasionally...

 

[4everchan]

yeah, yeah...point taken. I just KNEW I should have stuck with el henry's example!

hehe i just felt like we deserved a bit of comic relief it's been a journey

 

[Greengemmonster]

I would love to truly know how big/insignificant this story is to the general public.

I did a check on some of my other forums and all the people who were mildly interested in skating in 2018 (and who badly wanted Scott and Tessa to marry each other, I never watched ice dance last time but I kept seeing stuff shipping those two on an unrelated forum) seem to have no idea of this scandal let alone who Kamila, Eteri etc are.

 

[skatedreamer]

hehe i just felt like we deserved a bit of comic relief it's been a journey

you betcha!

#TeamComicRelief

 

[4everchan]

Eteri & Co. are Russian citizens. They are not under the legal authority of the US so they cannot be prosecuted by US agencies. That would be serious violation of international law.

And don't get me wrong I want them to be sent to prison immediately because of child abuse. But US has nothing to do with them.

RADA 2020. just look it up.

 

[readernick]

What logic? Your logic? Or the law?

You can present any logical argument you want whether I agree or disagree. Many people have presented ideas that I disagree with here, but have done so in a respectful and reasoned way. But, when you resort to personally insulting someone / questioning them and not what they have said that usually suggests you don't have a reasoned argument to present.

 

[el henry]

I was assuming you were a lawyer (incorrectly) and thus I expressed my opinion against your take on this matter, and if this offended you, I apologize.

I am sorry, I was confusing. I sometimes don't explain American shorthand enough. (and whether I agree or disagree, I have nothing but respect for posters who post in a second or third language)

I was a career (meaning my whole working life) attorney for the federal government. Known as a "fed". (there was actually a TV show called "Feds" in the US, which lasted about two months. Shows how exciting our life was). So yes, I did try to bring some of my training to this issue. Obviously, not on the subject matter, but more on the procedure.

And I realize emotions run high. Even among people who think there should be consequences now, many, on a personal level, still feel sorry for Kamila. I know I do.

And now I will bow out.

 

[doreen95]

Yeah that's what I thought as well!

Although technically can the government refuse their entry into the country on account of them being undesirable?

Hehe the Australian government had a lot of fun with Novax Djokovic

I am just curious! I am sure the government does not give a flying fig about Eteri or however she trains her charges!

I am far from being a legal expert, but I think yes, they can refuse to let them enter the country - so what? There are so many other countries on Earth they can travel to.
Maybe Russian skaters will not be allowed to compete at Skate America and in answer to it, US skaters will not be allowed to skate at Rostelecom Cup.