Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Ganya]

That's one of the mysteries, I remember an article saying the RUSADA people gave it to the WADA people - or at least their courier ASAP. But the sample itself wasn't receipted by the Swedish lab until 19th January.

If the RUSADA story is true then the sample (and others I guess since they wouldn't send just one) was in the hands of WADA courier and therefore their responsibility. Although there hasn't been anymore info on this.

It is interesting because as I said they would send the sample in lots so what time did all the samples for the rest of the them get receipted. If there's a difference that's a whole new can of worms.

I sort of tried to raise this 19 January arrival point before... It was never suggested that was the actual date. For some reason one Russian official's words were interpreted like it was; but to a Russian speaking person his statement meant sth like: given that the test result was announced 7Feb and assuming that the lab really met the 20 day standard, one might conclude(through calculation)that the sample got to the lab somewhere around 19Jan. The obvious implication of the whole statement was that the official actually doubted the possibility of such a late arrival hinting that the lab took longer than prescribed to analyse that particular sample ( at that point he clearly had no info which emerged later that the lab really acknowledged being slow due to the Covid issues).

Later RUSADA issued a statement specifying that in January, upon the expiry of the standard 20 day period, it had been informed by the lab of the lab''s failure to meet the deadline; and the lab in their correspondence with RUSADA promised the test results would be available before the end of January (which it ultimately failed to deliver), RUSADA at this point requesting priority for the test due to the urgency of the matter.
I understand all that might be viewed as immaterial, but this rather long-winded explanation of mine was provoked by these Russia sent it late claims)))

 

[Arigato]

Eteri & Co. are Russian citizens. They are not under the legal authority of the US so they cannot be prosecuted by US agencies.

"The U.S. could also take action against adults associated with the 15-year-old skater—like her Russian coaches and doctors—under the Rodchenkov Anti-Doping Act, which lets the U.S. prosecute other countries’ doping schemes when they involve international events at which U.S. athletes compete."

 

[TT_Fin]

Even the instructions say don't speculate, I do. Sweden is quite neutral country. I have a very simple theory why it took so long. The people who tested, did not believe anything would be found, because FS have been the one of most the most cleanest sports. They saw other things to test as more important.

 

[Decoder]

You can present any logical argument you want whether I agree or disagree. Many people have presented ideas that I disagree with here, but have done so in a respectful and reasoned way. But, when you resort to personally insulting someone / questioning them and not what they have said that usually suggests you don't have a reasoned argument to present.

I am not insulting anyone, I just assumed that a lawyer would do better than normal people, and I expect more from them. A lawyer, I hope, would argue based on facts, not speculation. Once you have the facts, you can start reasoning, using logic. Is this so hard to understand?

I might be wrong to assume anything in this thread, I guess.

I don't have any issue with you or whatever you say, because I only attached the identity of lawyer to 1-2 people in this forum, and you are not one of them, sorry.

 

[TT_Fin]

Yes, remember different countries have different laws. Somebody in this thread wrote before minor cannot make appointments to doctor, but in Finland they can. They can even deny to tell the results to parents. The age limit is so low as 10 years to make that.

 

[doreen95]

RADA 2020. just look it up.

You mean Rodchenkov Anti Doping Act?

Other countires / other countries' citizens / other countries' doping schemes cannot be prosecuted by the US. That exactly what "other country" means: they do not belong to the US.

So US acts / bills / laws under no circumstances apply to other countries and other countries's citizens (except they are dual citizens or something like that). Extending the jurisdiction to other countries would be an attempt to colonize them.

Consequently, outside the US no one cares about US acts / bills / laws. That this BS act was passed is merely a political gesture and wishful thinking and its enforcement depends entirely on whether other countries let US prosecute their own citizens.

And imo I would be extremely outraged if US / any other country tried to extend its jurisdiction to an athlete from my home country (even if he / she would be a doper).

 

[doreen95]

"The U.S. could also take action against adults associated with the 15-year-old skater—like her Russian coaches and doctors—under the Rodchenkov Anti-Doping Act, which lets the U.S. prosecute other countries’ doping schemes when they involve international events at which U.S. athletes compete."

Other countires / other countries' citizens / other countries' doping schemes cannot be prosecuted by the US. That exactly what "other country" means: they do not belong to the US.

The fact that US lets itself or its own prosecutors do something does not mean other countries let the US or its prosecutors do it (or that any other country cares at all).

 

[Sloopy]

I would love to truly know how big/insignificant this story is to the general public.

I did a check on some of my other forums and all the people who were mildly interested in skating in 2018 (and who badly wanted Scott and Tessa to marry each other, I never watched ice dance last time but I kept seeing stuff shipping those two on an unrelated forum) seem to have no idea of this scandal let alone who Kamila, Eteri etc are.

I can tell you, living in a somewhat major metropolis and a huge sports city, the major news outlets only reported the story when it broke, and nothing since then.

My family, friends, colleagues, and even my dentist know I'm a massive figure skating fan, and that I have traveled all over to watch it live, have not asked me about Kamila or the scandal, not one peep. If you knew the family comments surrounding my love for the sport, you would be shocked by the lack of interest. They are not watching the Winter Olympics and when or if they ever acknowledge it, you can bet the doping itself will anger them more than what country said skater is from. At this time, it is mostly figure skating enthusiasts and the people who hang out on social media platforms that are outraged.

 

[beachmouse]

Other countires / other countries' citizens / other countries' doping schemes cannot be prosecuted by the US. That exactly what "other country" means: they do not belong to the US.

The fact that US lets itself or its own prosecutors do something does not mean other countries let the US or its prosecutors do it (or that any other country cares at all).

There are a lot of treaties between the USA and other countries involving criminal investigations that cross international borders. A lot of the rest of the world is okay with the Americans getting stompy-footed over money laundering and other financial crimes that occur outside US borders even though it leads to some things so that, say, Switzerland or the Cayman Islands make changes so they are no longer the banking tax havens they used to be. (Down side is that those same laws made it harder for my friends abroad to get bank accounts there because the reporting to US agencies on those is something banks just don't want to deal with)

 

[Arigato]

I just assumed that a lawyer would do better than normal people, and I expect more from them. A lawyer, I hope, would argue based on facts, not speculation.

"If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit."

Hell of an argument.

 

[plushyfan]

Eteri & Co. are Russian citizens. They are not under the legal authority of the US so they cannot be prosecuted by US agencies. That would be serious violation of international law.

And don't get me wrong I want them to be sent to prison immediately because of child abuse. But US has nothing to do with them.

I know this is doesn't matter in this case but according to the Russian forums' posters Eteri bought some real estates in US. Interesting.

 

[doreen95]

There are a lot of treaties between the USA and other countries involving criminal investigations that cross international borders. A lot of the rest of the world is okay with the Americans getting stompy-footed over money laundering and other financial crimes that occur outside US borders even though it leads to some things so that, say, Switzerland or the Cayman Islands make changes so they are no longer the banking tax havens they used to be. (Down side is that those same laws made it harder for my friends abroad to get bank accounts there because the reporting to US agencies on those is something banks just don't want to deal with)

These treaties are based on mutual agreement becuase in these cases the interests of both parties are the same.
For instance I can imagine giving some kind of financial compensation to the Cayman Islands in forms of US investments or aids and as far as I know Switzerland was forced to give up its tax haven status by EU, too (EU threatened Switzerland to restore hard border control).

That is exactly what I am saying: the enforcement of US laws outside the US depends on the willingness of the other country to cooperate with the US.

But, in the case of Tutberidze I can's see any kind of willingness on Russian side to cooperate with the US.

(sorry, I edited it later a bit)

 

[4everchan]

You mean Rodchenkov Anti Doping Act?

Other countires / other countries' citizens / other countries' doping schemes cannot be prosecuted by the US. That exactly what "other country" means: they do not belong to the US.

So US acts / bills / laws under no circumstances apply to other countries and other countries's citizens (except they are dual citizens or something like that). Extending the jurisdiction to other countries would be an attempt to colonize them.

Consequently, outside the US no one cares about US acts / bills / laws. That this BS act was passed is merely a political gesture and wishful thinking and its enforcement depends entirely on whether other countries let US prosecute their own citizens.

And imo I would be extremely outraged if US / any other country tried to extend its jurisdiction to an athlete from my home country (even if he / she would be a doper).

i am definitely not an expert on these matters... however, if the USA were to ask Canadian's collaboration on such matters, I am pretty sure Canada would oblige... so would that block North America for skater/coach ? Perhaps...

 

[Arigato]

Other countires / other countries' citizens / other countries' doping schemes cannot be prosecuted by the US. That exactly what "other country" means: they do not belong to the US.

The fact that US lets itself or its own prosecutors do something does not mean other countries let the US or its prosecutors do it (or that any other country cares at all).

Prosecutors don't ask for permission.

 

[eaglehelang]

I thought Kamila passed her tests AT Beijing but had a past test that was the only issue. In this sense it’s not really the same thing and different rules may apply for different situations? This athlete tested positive during the competition.

When an athlete fail a doping test a certain date/ competition, all the results after that date(for the length of the suspension) will be declared null & void.

Kamilla's test was on Dec 25 right? IF in the end she is gets a 6 month suspension(lesser suspension time for minors & all that), then all the her competition results from Dec 25, 2021 till June 24 2022 is null & void. The is the standard practice in all sports for doping test.

Since the duration between Dec 25 to the Women's SP is less than 2 months, I don't think she can escape her Olympics medal in Team & Individual getting 'taken away'. Not with the worldwide scrutiny. Kamilla's defense did not say she didn't take the TMZ but that she accidentally ingested it. It still entered her body.

Unless Russia somehow managed to wiggle this through & get her a tiny weeny 30 day ban.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

RADA 2020. just look it up.

They better not arrest Eteri at Skate America 2022. This year has been dramatic enough already.

 

[doreen95]

Prosecutors don't ask for permission.

They do in a foreign country. Otherwise they find themselves immediately in prison.

 

[doreen95]

i am definitely not an expert on these matters... however, if the USA were to ask Canadian's collaboration on such matters, I am pretty sure Canada would oblige... so would that block North America for skater/coach ? Perhaps...

Sorry, I pressed enter too early...

I am also an expert either... but I am also pretty sure Canada would oblige... I can imagine for instance that Japan and France would also oblige to such an ask and collaborate...
And then Russian skaters would be not allowed to skate at Skate America, Skate Canada, NHK Trophy, Internationaux de France...
Yes, I think this is quite possible.

 

[grandmahorsey]

"If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit."

Hell of an argument.

So in other words, if grandpa didn’t spit you must acquit!

 

[fabienne1996]

so apparently the amount of tmz found in the probe and therefore in her system is around 200x times higher than the concentration of another athlete who precious proved that her concentration came from a contaminated product. and ," expert witnesses summoned by Valieva’s team conceded, that the 2.1 nanograms were “actually very consistent with the tail end of an excretion,” if a full dose of TMZ had been taken days earlier."

https://twitter.com/SkatingProtocol/status/1494083097435856897?t=DAkMn4PWRwbITMBzPouDmg&s=19