Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Mathman]

"Now they won't cancel the ceremony," Valieva said and cried during the announcement of the scores for the free program.

So, WADA and the IOC did what they wanted.

I don't know what motivates WADA, but the IOC cannot possibly be pleased with the outcome of this fiasco. It has blemished the Olympic Games and thrown everyone into an an angry uproar.

 

[anonymoose_au]

The feed is controlled by the IOC with the Chinese Olympic Committee organizing the camera operators. The global feed was shown across much of the world. Eurosport certainly had it, as they were supposed to go right into the flower ceremony.

Our 7+ stream just stopped I think it was because they expected Kamila to win and only alloted stream time until just after the last skater skated.

In other news...

US journalist pours scorn on Russian skater’s Beijing history

US reporter Christine Brennan offered a caustic take on Russian figure-skating as she questioned Alexandra Trusova's Olympic display

www.rt.com

Alexandra Trusova [...] trains in the same camp with the same coach as Kamila Valieva [...] now under investigation.



I would go even further... if we go the "guilt by association" route:

I read the name Christine Brennan and my hackles raised. She's going after Sasha now?! Without a lick of evidence?! Pouring salt into her wound.

She's not a journalist, she's a muck merchant.

As someone else said somewhere in any other circumstances she and Eteri would be best friends. They're both as heartless as each other.

 

[[email protected]]

Those CAS judges including an American seem to be quite reasonable people. They even not shy about sarcasm:

WADA argued that the International Standard for Laboratories merely
recommends but does not compel WADA-accredited labs to process samples
within 20 days and that here the 40 days it took to inform Ms Valieva is well within
the range of what WADA usually or often sees from laboratories processing anti-
doping samples. The Panel finds this submission to not be compelling. On the
contrary, it is rather worrying to hear such a submission when Athletes are held
to a high standard in meeting their anti-doping obligations and at the same time,
the anti-doping authorities are subject to mere recommendations on time
deadlines that are designed to protect athletes from late- or inconveniently-arising
claims. The flexibility of the recommendations and guidelines applicable to
WADA-accredited labs contrasts with the stringency of the rules on Provisional
Suspensions. Although all athletes’ samples are anonymous, it should be
possible for anti-doping laboratories and authorities to handle anti-doping tests in
a swift manner when the samples are collected at significant pre-events that may
constitute selection events for the Olympic Games, such as the Russian National
Championships in figure skating

 

[millie]

I suggested not to continue with the argument. It is obvious that the matter itself will continue. I don't believe that it was doping here and I do hope that Kamila's name will be cleared.

I have no emotions regarding "the army of vultures" who crushed Kamila mentally. I would be if they did something that I did not expect them to do. But I am here 8 years now - I know what to expect from everyone to get excited. I just suggested not to waste time in the exchanges of opinions which lead nowhere and change no one's ideas about what is going on.

I suggested not to continue with the argument. It is obvious that the matter itself will continue. I don't believe that it was doping here and I do hope that Kamila's name will be cleared.

I have no emotions regarding "the army of vultures" who crushed Kamila mentally. I would be if they did something that I did not expect them to do. But I am here 8 years now - I know what to expect from everyone to get excited. I just suggested not to waste time in the exchanges of opinions which lead nowhere and change no one's ideas about what is going on.

In my opinion, none of us are here to try to solve the problem of systemic doping by Russian athletes and their cronies. That’s up to the professionals. With regards to “the army of Vultures who crushed her, you are barking up the wrong tree, the vultures are Eteri and her followers. They are the cowards that ruined this girl’s life. I have been here 18 years on Golden Skate Forum and watching figure skating for about 40 years. Over the years we have many good hot and heavy arguments over skaters and figure skating but I wouldn’t consider it wasting time. That’s what this forum is all about, our opinion whether they are right or wrong. I stand to be corrected. These are our opinions,, Enjoy the rest of the Olympics.

 

[[email protected]]

And these are quite strong words. Bravo, CAS!

Nor does the Panel find compelling the fact that the Stockholm laboratory here
blamed the processing delay on staffing problems caused by the pandemic. None
of this is the fault of the Athlete and it has put her in a remarkably difficult position
where she faces a lifetime of work being taken from her within days of the biggest
event of her short career. The Stockholm laboratory’s delay is the factor that has
thrust the difficult timing issues on the Athlete, and the awkward event operation
and management, and sport integrity issues, for the Applicants in this case, and
more generally for all parties involved in these procedures

 

[[email protected]]

Enjoy the rest of the Olympics.

You too, pairs should be fun.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I am astonished at such legislative overreach. No wonder the U.S.Congress is the laughingstock of the nation, if not the world.

That is insane, now if it applies to US citizens overseas that's one thing, but to other nationalities?

 

[flanker]

If it was already here I'm sorry, I do not have the will to reread everything. This is the full CAS Ad Hoc Division decision:

https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/OG_22_08-09-10_Arbitral_Award__publication_.pdf

It is really very worth reading and I consider it well thought and argued. It also clearly shows the panel concern over very poor handling of the previous process by WADA.

E.g. those parts:

211. WADA argued that the International Standard for Laboratories merely
recommends but does not compel WADA-accredited labs to process samples
within 20 days and that here the 40 days it took to inform Ms Valieva is well within
the range of what WADA usually or often sees from laboratories processing anti-
doping samples. The Panel finds this submission to not be compelling. On the
contrary, it is rather worrying to hear such a submission when Athletes are held
to a high standard in meeting their anti-doping obligations and at the same time,
the anti-doping authorities are subject to mere recommendations on time
deadlines that are designed to protect athletes from late- or inconveniently-arising
claims. The flexibility of the recommendations and guidelines applicable to
WADA-accredited labs contrasts with the stringency of the rules on Provisional
Suspensions. Although all athletes’ samples are anonymous, it should be
possible for anti-doping laboratories and authorities to handle anti-doping tests in
a swift manner when the samples are collected at significant pre-events that may
constitute selection events for the Olympic Games, such as the Russian National
Championships in figure skating.
212. Nor does the Panel find compelling the fact that the Stockholm laboratory here
blamed the processing delay on staffing problems caused by the pandemic. None
of this is the fault of the Athlete and it has put her in a remarkably difficult position
where she faces a lifetime of work being taken from her within days of the biggest
event of her short career. The Stockholm laboratory’s delay is the factor that has
thrust the difficult timing issues on the Athlete, and the awkward event operation
and management, and sport integrity issues, for the Applicants in this case, and
more generally for all parties involved in these procedures.

 

[whatif]

Those CAS judges including an American seem to be quite reasonable people. They even not shy about sarcasm:

WADA argued that the International Standard for Laboratories merely
recommends but does not compel WADA-accredited labs to process samples
within 20 days and that here the 40 days it took to inform Ms Valieva is well within
the range of what WADA usually or often sees from laboratories processing anti-
doping samples. The Panel finds this submission to not be compelling. On the
contrary, it is rather worrying to hear such a submission when Athletes are held
to a high standard in meeting their anti-doping obligations and at the same time,
the anti-doping authorities are subject to mere recommendations on time
deadlines that are designed to protect athletes from late- or inconveniently-arising
claims. The flexibility of the recommendations and guidelines applicable to
WADA-accredited labs contrasts with the stringency of the rules on Provisional
Suspensions. Although all athletes’ samples are anonymous, it should be
possible for anti-doping laboratories and authorities to handle anti-doping tests in
a swift manner when the samples are collected at significant pre-events that may
constitute selection events for the Olympic Games, such as the Russian National
Championships in figure skating

That's not really sarcasm. That's the main reason why CAS allowed her to compete here. And a valid legal argument. if I was Valieva's defence I would hammer this argument more than the ridiculous grandad defence or citing medical journals about TMZ.

 

[el henry]

If a US citizen is murdered abroad, the murderer may be prosecuted in United States. I would not consider doping on the level of murder, but it is a criminal offense. Extra territorial restriction is not the norm, but it is not something made up out of whole cloth. And I doubt very much it is restricted to the US.

As to whether Congress is a laughing stock, and why, it seems to me to be in the purview of politics.

I will say that “grandpa’s glass” has been a subject of international laughter, not just in the West, whatever the heck the West is.

 

[el henry]

I wouldn’t be trumpeting the CAS decision as some sort of legal reasoning that Kamila should depend upon in her ultimate hearing.

From my point of view, the CAS seemed to disregard previous precedent, and also disregarded the well thought out arguments of WADA. Having read the decision several times, it makes sense only as “we feel sorry for Kamila”, but not under the strict liability enforcement scheme that WADA contemplates.

Losing the application for a “TRO“, if you will, is not good. But in this particular case, I do not see any reasoning that could apply to the ultimate decision.

 

[[email protected]]

That's not really sarcasm. That's the main reason why CAS allowed her to compete here. And a valid legal argument. if I was Valieva's defence I would hammer this argument more than the ridiculous grandad defence or citing medical journals about TMZ.

I am finished here for today. I just wonder if you are a sports lawyer or just "a common sense person". I am the latter and from common sense what you say makes no sense to me. WADA says openly: "Yes, we are clumsy. We recommend them to do it in 20 days. But they did it in 40 days. Too bad but they are not obliged to". CAS ridicules them: "You suspend athletes immediately but at the same time you are quite relaxed about yourself. To teach you a lesson we shall scrap your appeal".

But its about the provisional suspension. The question remains: how TMZ was identified. What you and some other posters suggest: "they are surely to blame - they gave her doping". If that's the case may be what you say could make sense - argue about timing and procedure, protected person status, negotiating for minimum ban. But I believe in a different case: there was no wrongdoing. And on this platform: "we are clean and wrongfully accused" the first step is, of course, sample B. The second step is to try all the possible explanations how 2.1 ng/ml was identified when the sensitivity against TMZ is not lower than 10 ng/ml. And grandpa is the first step because they just don't know. And they are not fast to shout: "mistake! setup! conspiracy!" unlike those who are not tired to shout over and over again: "cheater! shame! dirty!"

 

[whatif]

I wouldn’t be trumpeting the CAS decision as some sort of legal reasoning that Kamila should depend upon in her ultimate hearing.

From my point of view, the CAS seemed to disregard previous precedent, and also disregarded the well thought out arguments of WADA. Having read the decision several times, it makes sense only as “we feel sorry for Kamila”, but not under the strict liability enforcement scheme that WADA contemplates.

Losing the application for a “TRO“, if you will, is not good. But in this particular case, I do not see any reasoning that could apply to the ultimate decision.

I disagree that WADA's arguments were well thought out though. And CAS explains well why. Main criticism of WADA is that it's impartial and their procedures and rules are not consistent or fair. The CAS decision highlights that some of these complaints are accurate using the example of how Valieva's sample was handled in this instance.

That still does not excuse of what Valieva may have done BUT it does give an opening for a good defence lawyer to poke a hole in WADA's credibility.

 

[el henry]

I disagree that WADA's arguments were well thought out though. And CAS explains well why. Main criticism of WADA is that it's impartial and their procedures and rules are not consistent or fair. The CAS decision highlights that some of these complaints are accurate using the example of how Valieva's sample was handled in this instance.

That still does not excuse of what Valieva may have done BUT it does give an opening for a good defence lawyer to poke a hole in WADA's credibility.

But the rules are consistent and fair. The point about the delay was not “oh some conspiracy, oh we agree they hate your wonderful selves” but that she didn’t have time to prepare a defense.

Now she does.

maybe I’ve read too many opinions in my lifetime, but this does not come across at all like a rebuke of WADA to me. From my reading, they are definitely not saying to Kamila, do this, and you’ll get off.

But we’ll know when we know.

 

[whatif]

But the rules are consistent and fair. The point about the delay was not “oh some conspiracy, oh we agree they hate your wonderful selves” but that she didn’t have time to prepare a defense.

Now she does.

maybe I’ve read too many opinions in my lifetime, but this does not come across at all like a rebuke of WADA to me. From my reading, they are definitely not saying to Kamila, do this, and you’ll get off.

But we’ll know when we know.

I agree with you that does not excuse the main crime she accused of, YET. But the CAS ruling also does talk about WADA not applying the same strict rules it argues in their argument to themselves. Russians can argue that the fact there were so many delays happened in processing of the sample is suspicious and may be an indication of attempted tempering.

CAS implies that it could be a good argument.

But we will indeed see.

 

[4everchan]

I will say that “grandpa’s glass” has been a subject of international laughter, not just in the West, whatever the heck the West is.

the west is where the wicked witch lives right?

 

[Mathman]

If a US citizen is murdered abroad, the murderer may be prosecuted in United States. I would not consider doping on the level of murder, but it is a criminal offense.

To me, it is primarily an offense against the foreign athlete who is subjected to harmful chemical substanses, very likely causing medical problem down the road and shortening the athlete's lfe. The harm done to an American citizen by possibly missing out on a medal is trivial in comparison.

Who suffered injury in this particular case? Mariah Bell?

 

[skatedreamer]

To me, it is primarily an offense against the foreign athlete who is subjected to harmful chemical substanses, very likely causing medical problem down the road and shortening the athlete's lfe. The harm done to an American citizen by possibly missing out on a medal is trivial in comparison.

Who suffered injury in this particular case? Mariah Bell?

As best I can understand, the injury isn't missing out on a medal. Instead, it's lack of an even playing field.

We probably need @el henry for this one...

 

[whatif]

To me, it is primarily an offense against the foreign athlete who is subjected to harmful chemical substanses, very likely causing medical problem down the road and shortening the athlete's lfe. The harm done to an American citizen by possibly missing out on a medal is trivial in comparison.

Who suffered injury in this particular case? Mariah Bell?

Actually, the whole US team would be more appropriate plaintiff. They want their gold medal.

 

[el henry]

To me, it is primarily an offense against the foreign athlete who is subjected to harmful chemical substanses, very likely causing medical problem down the road and shortening the athlete's lfe. The harm done to an American citizen by possibly missing out on a medal is trivial in comparison.

Who suffered injury in this particular case? Mariah Bell?

Yes. And NBC, for that matter.

No one is saying that Mariah's harm is the greatest ever. The legislative history, which I did not read but rely on the law firm summary, is that the law was enacted because WADA, the IOC, and international athletic organizations kept giving dopers a pass. So the US said, well, we don't like dopers, and not here, you're not getting a pass. So if you ever want to visit the Grand Canyon or to compete at Skate America, keep this in mind.

I come from a world where ordering pencils one time over the telephone (or nowadays, internet) was considered "Interstate commerce" enough to bring you under federal labor law jurisdiction. So my views may be, ummm, tilted.

And as we both know, no one in the US gave two hoots about these medals, about the team medals, or really about anything other than Nathan Chen, and he has his medal, so it's not really the harm.