Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Draculus]

... and her parents are just as guilty as Eteri for allowing it to happen.

Fortunately ppl on the internet has no power in such decisions, who is guilty, who is not.

Also, there is NOTHING objectifying about pointing out that a minor is a minor.

You said much more. If you were saying something like 'Kamilla is a minor, and we shall treat her feeling keeping in mind that she is not an adult' that was ok. But you said 'she does not have a choice' about her thoughts/feelings (about stay with Eteri or leave), basically saying that her feelings do not matter. And I am gaslighting...

Doping in this sense is so minor issue. Depraving skaters from subjectivity I would say is much much worse.

 

[iceskater10]

Fortunately ppl on the internet has no power in such decisions, who is guilty, who is not.

You said much more. If you were saying something like 'Kamilla is a minor, and we shall treat her feeling keeping in mind that she is not an adult' that was ok. But you said 'she does not have a choice' about her thoughts/feelings (about stay with Eteri or leave), basically saying that her feelings do not matter. And I am gaslighting...

Doping in this sense is so minor issue. Depraving skaters from subjectivity I would say is much much worse.

Doping is so minor????? REALLY. WOW WOW WOW.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Fortunately ppl on the internet has no power in such decisions, who is guilty, who is not.

You said much more. If you were saying something like 'Kamilla is a minor, and we shall treat her feeling keeping in mind that she is not an adult' that was ok. But you said 'she does not have a choice' about her thoughts/feelings (about stay with Eteri or leave), basically saying that her feelings do not matter. And I am gaslighting...

Doping in this sense is so minor issue. Depraving skaters from subjectivity I would say is much much worse.

I never once said that Kamila's opinions don't matter. Don't lie about things I never said. Gaslighter.

She is a minor, period. At the end of the day she neither has the ability or knowledge necessary to defy the adults around her in an effective way. The whole reason laws regarding minors exist is because intelligent people realize that the adults should be there to guide and protect children.

The opposite is happening here as adults manipulate, drug, and abuse kids for their own gain all while their internet cronies bend over backwards to find absurd excuses to defend them.



"Doping in this sense is so minor issue."..... you should be ashamed of yourself. Child abuse is never minor.

 

[flotsam]

Doping in this sense is so minor issue. Depraving skaters from subjectivity I would say is much much worse.

 

[Fanof]

... and her parents are just as guilty as Eteri for allowing it to happen.

Also, there is NOTHING objectifying about pointing out that a minor is a minor.

You are just gaslighting, and it is gross.

Honestly, we don't know what happened. Sometimes, parents are worse than coaches...
I didn't like what Bach said this morning. He could have just said that he had been moved seeing the skater's distress. Even if she is doped and even if she chose to do so by herself, there is nothing wrong saying the despair of a 15yo girl is moving. Whatever one thinks of ET, and as far as I am concerned, I don't think anything as I don't know her, no one could have done or said anything relevant in such circumstances. Whether she was right to say what she said, or should have remained silent, or should have told her "my poor little girl...", is not so important, KV would not have been receptive to anything anyway.
What I am more concerned about is 1/ who gave KV the drug (her coach, her doctor, her parents, her roommate, herself, no one if B sample is clean...), 2/ if she knew it (I am not a poor 15yo little girl, but I would not like to be hugged by someone doping me unawares, once I have realized it might be the case), 3/ why there are so many injured skaters in this club (but I would also like to know if it is really worse than in other clubs). Whether ET is harsh or empathetic is not so important and unless Bach has already strong evidence against her, I found his remark inappropriate (and like yesterday, I'm not from Russia).

 

[Draculus]

I never once said that Kamila's opinions don't matter.

You said that 'she does not have a choice' about her motivation/feelings. How would you explain it?
What do you think Kamilla would answer to the question 'do you want to leave Eteri?'

She is a minor, period. At the end of the day she neither has the ability or knowledge necessary to defy the adults around her in an effective way. The whole reason laws regarding minors exist is because intelligent people realize that the adults should be there to guide and protect children.

Laws about 15 year old minors do not threat them like 'they do not have a choice'. She is not 1 year old baby who cannot even talk.
Laws treat them leniently but still can punish. This is true for criminal laws in most countries, this is true for WADA.
And laws do it because 15 years old DO have a choice, teenagers are sentient humans.

And I am really surprised when ppl here say 'even if Kamilla knows she takes doping she is still no guilty because she is 15 year old.'
So basically they treating her like an object who has 0 responsibility, like she is "non compos mentis".

 

[Wafflecakes]

You said that 'she does not have a choice' about her motivation/feelings. How would you explain it?
What do you think Kamilla would answer to the question 'do you want to leave Eteri?'

Laws about 15 year old minors do not threat them like 'they do not have a choice'. She is not 1 year old baby who cannot even talk.
Laws treat them leniently but still can punish. This is true for criminal laws in most countries, this is true for WADA.
And laws do it because 15 years old DO have a choice, teenagers are sentient humans.

And I am really surprised when ppl here say 'even if Kamilla knows she takes doping she is still no guilty because she is 15 year old.'
So basically they treating her like an object who has 0 responsibility, like she is "non compos mentis".

Choice and opinions are two different things. She can have the opinions all she wants, but I highly doubt ROC or Eteri care one iota about her opinions or what she wants.

That said I will leave it here since there is no point in discussing the issue with someone hell bent and justifying child abuse and explaining that not only it is ok.... but that it is the people calling it out who are the problem. Is gross.

 

[matin calin]

The IOC president made a statement about Eteri's behavior..... Wasn't the doping issue enough now we have an abusive coaching team to top it off.

Eh ok? When it comes to such matters I trust my own eyes and my judgments. I have presumably seen the same scene as he did. Nothing of what we saw on TV after Kamila's LP was abusive, come on. Unless Bach knows of some other evidence of Eteri being "abusive" towards KV he shouldn't have been making such statements based on a 1 minute interaction between KV and ET in front of the cameras, where you can barely hear what they're saying. Especially if you know exactly zero Russian.

 

[Draculus]

Choice and opinions are two different things. She can have the opinions all she wants, but I highly doubt ROC or Eteri care one iota about her opinions or what she wants.

Of course Eteri cares about what Kamilla wants (not everything of course). Eteri have said that she works only with ppl who want it, that it is impossible to force to skate on this level. Alina Zagitova in her old interview also spoke about it, that from ~12 year old she began to understand 'what she is doing, that she really wants it and that it is herself who actually "force" her body to do what body does not want'.
Maybe Eteri does not care much about her student's feelings (at least she does not show it, she had it only with Zhenia).
But Eteri clearly stated that 'it is not her job to motivate ppl to work', she wants students who want to work with her.

 

[[email protected]]

Eh ok? When it comes to such matters I trust my own eyes and my judgments. I have presumably seen the same scene as he did. Nothing of what we saw on TV after Kamila's LP was abusive, come on. Unless Bach knows of some other evidence of Eteri being "abusive" towards KV he shouldn't have been making such statements based on a 1 minute interaction between KV and ET in front of the cameras, where you can barely hear what they're saying. Especially if you know exactly zero Russian.

He is politician and tries to do what all politicians do - get another term.

 

[macy]

Fortunately ppl on the internet has no power in such decisions, who is guilty, who is not.

You said much more. If you were saying something like 'Kamilla is a minor, and we shall treat her feeling keeping in mind that she is not an adult' that was ok. But you said 'she does not have a choice' about her thoughts/feelings (about stay with Eteri or leave), basically saying that her feelings do not matter. And I am gaslighting...

Doping in this sense is so minor issue. Depraving skaters from subjectivity I would say is much much worse.

to the Russian federation and Team Tutberidze, her feelings do not matter. this was clear as day the second she stepped off the ice. it was clear as day when her team didn't do the right thing by her and let her compete. what she wants does not matter. if she ever left Eteri, her career would be over, doping scandal aside. she is their puppet and was exploited for medals and "Russian glory". a mere 15 year old child.

please stop gaslighting and think about the reality of the situation.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Of course Eteri cares about what Kamilla wants (not everything of course). Eteri have said that she works only with ppl who want it, that it is impossible to force to skate on this level. Alina Zagitova in her old interview also spoke about it, that from ~12 year old she began to understand 'what she is doing, that she really wants it and that it is herself who actually "force" her body to do what body does not want'.
Maybe Eteri does not care much about her student's feelings (at least she does not show it, she had it only with Zhenia).
But Eteri clearly stated that 'it is not her job to motivate ppl to work', she wants students who want to work with her.

Lol. The denial is so strong.

 

[matin calin]

He is politician and tries to do what all politicians do - get another term.

Possibly, but I think they're just trying to build up a stronger case for the "kids are victims" arguments in the age limit debate (note: I support raising the age limit). Now it's not only about doping of minors but also of them being subjected to coldness and verbal assaults by their coaches after they fail. Right. Everyone suddenly started caring about Kamila's mental well-being again.

 

[Fanof]

He is politician and tries to do what all politicians do - get another term.

I believe he is not allowed to get another term?

 

[iceskater10]

Eh ok? When it comes to such matters I trust my own eyes and my judgments. I have presumably seen the same scene as he did. Nothing of what we saw on TV after Kamila's LP was abusive, come on. Unless Bach knows of some other evidence of Eteri being "abusive" towards KV he shouldn't have been making such statements based on a 1 minute interaction between KV and ET in front of the cameras, where you can barely hear what they're saying. Especially if you know exactly zero Russian.

He is politician and tries to do what all politicians do - get another term.

He's also IOC President, maybe just stop Russia from competing till they can get the S..T together....

He's also IOC President, maybe just stop Russia from competing till they can get the S..T together....

 

[Draculus]

to the Russian federation and Team Tutberidze, her feelings do not matter. this was clear as day the second she stepped off the ice. it was clear as day when her team didn't do the right thing by her and let her compete. what she wants does not matter. if she ever left Eteri, her career would be over, doping scandal aside. she is their puppet and was exploited for medals and "Russian glory". a mere 15 year old child.

Firstly, "this was clear as day" is a very weak argument.
Secondly, Russian Federation and TT are not sentient entities, it is abstractions/or groups of ppl. So better not to talk about them like they are humans. Or if you still insist then please do not forget that those things at least have split personality due to their 'hive mind' nature, so it's ok for them to not have human sanity.
Thirdly, I'm absolutely sure that Kamilla wanted to skate even on such conditions. And that Kamilla does not want to leave Eteri. You can claim that these feelings/opinions are 'bad', 'imbued' or belittle them, but still this is what I honestly believe they are.

please stop gaslighting and think about the reality of the situation.

Am I gaslighting you? Or Kamilla?
If you speak about Kamilla then I do not understand how I can technically gaslight here. From wiki gaslighting is a 'making someone question their own reality', 'presents a false narrative to another group or person'. I do not communicate with Kamilla so obviously I cannot gaslight her by this definition.
Am I making you questioning your own reality? Sorry to hear that but it is not me who is saying 'think about the reality of the situation'.

 

[iceskater10]

Eh ok? When it comes to such matters I trust my own eyes and my judgments. I have presumably seen the same scene as he did. Nothing of what we saw on TV after Kamila's LP was abusive, come on. Unless Bach knows of some other evidence of Eteri being "abusive" towards KV he shouldn't have been making such statements based on a 1 minute interaction between KV and ET in front of the cameras, where you can barely hear what they're saying. Especially if you know exactly zero Russian.

Oh and you were back stage during the s..t show???? WOW

 

[Novalis]

He is politician and tries to do what all politicians do - get another term.

Let us not be too cynical. Thomas Bach might also simply be a human being

 

[macy]

Firstly, "this was clear as day" is a very weak argument.
Secondly, Russian Federation and TT are not sentient entities, it is abstractions/or groups of ppl. So better not to talk about them like they are humans. Or if you still insist then please do not forget that those things at least have split personality due to their 'hive mind' nature, so it's ok for them to not have human sanity.
Thirdly, I'm absolutely sure that Kamilla wanted to skate even on such conditions. And that Kamilla does not want to leave Eteri. You can claim that these feelings/opinions are 'bad', 'imbued' or belittle them, but still this is what I honestly believe they are.

Am I gaslighting you? Or Kamilla?
If you speak about Kamilla then I do not understand how I can technically gaslight here. From wiki gaslighting is a 'making someone question their own reality', 'presents a false narrative to another group or person'. I do not communicate with Kamilla so obviously I cannot gaslight her by this definition.
Am I making you questioning your own reality? Sorry to hear that but it is not me who is saying 'think about the reality of the situation'.

i'm done here.

 

[iceskater10]

Eh ok? When it comes to such matters I trust my own eyes and my judgments. I have presumably seen the same scene as he did. Nothing of what we saw on TV after Kamila's LP was abusive, come on. Unless Bach knows of some other evidence of Eteri being "abusive" towards KV he shouldn't have been making such statements based on a 1 minute interaction between KV and ET in front of the cameras, where you can barely hear what they're saying. Especially if you know exactly zero Russian.

HET!!!