I was merely pointing out the bad behavior of one student shouldn’t mean Eteri condones it
Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups
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i tend to avoid TSL but in this case, they do not do the talking.. Polina does it and she is smart, articulate and not afraid to share her opinions.
Have you already seen this?
https://mobile.twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1494582788216995840
If this is real, I hope they'll also go against the evil forces from inside!
https://mobile.twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1494582788216995840
If this is real, I hope they'll also go against the evil forces from inside!
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- Mar 7, 2015
haha i was drinking wine before writing mine
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- Mar 21, 2018
I´m not sure she is completely fine though, sure she has cooled down but.. A few hours before after the medal ceremony she said in an interview in the mixed zone about question about her skating in the future, something like "About the future, I will decide and tell you later". So this was the day after she got the silver... You know, it could just be about if she will continue or not regarding her comments in anger about she never wanted to skate again (and I don´t expect her to really quit), but the words could also imply that she consider changing coaches again. I wouldn´t be surprised if she left Eteri. That she still utter words like that one day after implies she is not really ok.
She was also asked about the rumors of about her not wanting to leave the stadium after the FS and was dragged into the bus by Eteri at 3am, refusing to leave. This was apparently false rumors from volunteers. She said it was not true, but explained what happened instead. According to her own words she stayed back alone and late because of tests, and she went on the street alone at 1 am looking for a car herself to get back. She went back to the venue and asked volunteers for help during Google Translate on her phone as she can´t speak English, and they helped her get a car. This story is just as bizarre as the false story because why was she left alone and had to find a car by herself to get back to the hotel in the middle of the night?? She doesn´t even speak English, an adult should have been left behind and go back with her. Why wasn´t she on the bus with others...why did only she stay behind late? For me, it´s seem so unlikely that I almost believe this could be a cover up and that the first story had some truth in it. And if her version is true, than it´s truly disturbing they just left her like that...
Sorry for bringing this up in his thread, I agree with you this is not the center of the thread. But I simply feel I can´t post this in the other threads devoted to the Russian figure skating girls or the fan thread of Sasha...
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Slightly off topic, but I tried that once too but I found out it didn´t work, only made me more miserablehaha i was drinking wine before writing mine
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well about the future, most olympians, especially after a dramatic event, will need to "decide later" but I am pretty sure that she will want to go to worlds and win a gold there. She wants a big prize.
Re the test : you should watch Polina Edmunds on TSL. She mentioned that the ROC girls often drink so little water that they would not be able to provide a sample for hours after an event. So that's possible... maybe she didn't want the adults to stick around since she was upset.
Of course, it can be a partial cover or a mixture of many stories to make an official statement...but at this point, I wouldn't read too much into it... I will say this here : I stopped getting invested in Eteri's skaters after Medvedeva. Too many with too short careers.. I like to follow skaters who are there for a long time and create history over a long period of time... redemption, evolution, etc... So whether or not these women go to worlds or not, or have a future or not? meh... I am hoping to see Liza at worlds
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It's sad to think that after two weeks of circus the question "Who protected Kamila?" has no answer.on a very selfish level, mind blown that a world class coach agrees with us that her team should have placed Kamila’s needs first, which means her team should have encouraged her to withdraw from the competition.
Not her team or her fed (they fought to let her skating but it was selfish in the fist place and the opposite of protection)
Not the ISU
Not the CIO
Not the antidoping agency involved that started it all with "perfect" timing
The greatest treasure skating had in the last years (maybe ever) was left wounded on the floor for every bully (press first) to freely kick on it while passing by
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I think she also wants to go to Worlds and try get a gold, so maybe she won´t do a drastic move before later.well about the future, most olympians, especially after a dramatic event, will need to "decide later" but I am pretty sure that she will want to go to worlds and win a gold there. She wants a big prize.
Re the test : you should watch Polina Edmunds on TSL. She mentioned that the ROC girls often drink so little water that they would not be able to provide a sample for hours after an event. So that's possible... maybe she didn't want the adults to stick around since she was upset.
Of course, it can be a partial cover or a mixture of many stories to make an official statement...but at this point, I wouldn't read too much into it... I will say this here : I stopped getting invested in Eteri's skaters after Medvedeva. Too many with too short careers.. I like to follow skaters who are there for a long time and create history over a long period of time... redemption, evolution, etc... So whether or not these women go to worlds or not, or have a future or not? meh... I am hoping to see Liza at worlds
Aha, that explains why she had to stay late yes, but still - they have many adults in their team, surely they could spare one to stay with her so she get home safe? It´s just so weird she had to fix her transport herself. And if even if she asked to be left alone they really shouldn´t IMO.
I also hope to see Liza at Worlds, fingers crossed.
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well she is 17 now and used to travel all over the world.. that doesn't sound too weird to me... i am willing to buy that version
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I always felt that the provisional suspension not only protected the integrity of clean sport and the other athletes but also the athletes who do test positive. It gives them time, away from the spotlight, to prove their innocence, which is the only thing that should matter, that with mental health. If RUSADA had not lifted that ban, Kamila would have been excluded. She would have had time to organize her defense far away from the media. I never understood why RUSADA and then the CAS, thought it was in her interest to compete.. There was no way it could be a winning situation for her...because until her official hearing happens, and clarifies her situation (guilty, innocent, sanction or not, medal stripped or not, length of ban or not) etc... anything she would do would be scrutinized and source of drama.
This is why it's such a sad story.. I am not too sure the ISU, the IOC or WADA are to blame here honestly. They did appeal the lifting of the ban. The IOC asked to delay medal ceremonies. It also asked for a 25th skater for the free skate, which the ISU provided. That's all they could do really after their appeal being rejected by the ad hoc committee.
Kamila deserved better but from her own entourage, RUSADA, and ROC. Those are the ones who failed her.
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and just for those : what if if she is forgiven entirely : well she would have still been an Olympic champion in the team event with gorgeous performances and successful quads (a first in history)... and headed to worlds with the rage to win ! Fine, no olympic medal in singles... but do you all think this is better now??? Now, even if she managed to get a hearing and be forgiven in time for worlds, do you think she will be at her best?
worst case scenario : she is not forgiven and is stripped of medals and banned... this would have been worst if she had won the individual on top of that.
I never understood really why it was such a good idea from the CAS to refuse the appeal. I have mentioned it many times in this thread. There was no way for this situation to become a "positive" (sorry for the pun) one for the athlete.. Impossible... and it's not the crystal ball talking, it's just logic.
worst case scenario : she is not forgiven and is stripped of medals and banned... this would have been worst if she had won the individual on top of that.
I never understood really why it was such a good idea from the CAS to refuse the appeal. I have mentioned it many times in this thread. There was no way for this situation to become a "positive" (sorry for the pun) one for the athlete.. Impossible... and it's not the crystal ball talking, it's just logic.
… meh... I am hoping to see Liza at worlds
+1 .. I cant explain why I enjoy watching her skate, but I truly miss her … I truly hope to see her around for one more season
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- Dec 29, 2013
I can’t agree with this. If any one of these organizations had done their jobs correctly they would have been certain to at the very least make sure ANY expected medal contenders from ROC (any country for that matter) were coming in clean and that ALL testing required of them prior to last Olympics was fully completed before issuing those athletes and coaches Olympic Credentials. This should easily be achievable of all athletes but for the sake of this discussion we can limit our scope here to “medal contenders”.
These organizations (IOC, WADA, ISU) have an inherent responsibility for ensuring a fair playing field for all competing athletes, advertisers and the general public who support the games. I think WADA and IOC at the very least should have a checklist of all the times any olympians were tested and be able to show the final status of each and every test as a minimum requirement to receive Olympic credentials and to ultimately compete. Kamila having an incomplete test result from her last major event should have flagged attention regardless of if it was clean or dirty. The fact that she or any athlete (especially a minor) could have incomplete results shows the lack of protection these agencies have in place for said athletes. Kamila should never have been outed the way she was and should have had a chance to discreetly undergo her appeal process before any of this was made public let alone having been granted access to Olympic grounds. Not only for her well being but for the image and integrity of not only the sport but of the entire Olympic Games.
I think the governing bodies need to face real punishment and public scrutiny for failing to put proper safe guards in place. I think they failed Kamila, everyone in the team event, and the entire sport of figure skating. IMO this should never have happened and very basic safeguards by the governing authorities charged with overseeing the Games could have prevented this situation from becoming tabloid clickbait and Golden Skate “hot takes”
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that was RUSADA's responsibility... and the results are positive.. not incomplete. She appealed the decision, that's her prerogative... but most athletes who do so, do not get their provisional suspension lifted. RUSADA lifted it..
Actually my take on this is much stricter... If you want to blame IOC for anything it's simple : they should have just not allowed any ROC at the games ...
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- Dec 29, 2013
Yes...I see we have completely different outlooks on the matter and what roles and trust we should put into the organizing bodies of our sport.
I thought I made my opinion clear enough so I’ll just stand by it.
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I do agree on provisional suspensions being the best course of action after a second analisys in the presence of the athlete party to exclude manipulation and formal exceptions.
I do also believe that, adult or not, no name should be disclosed before a second analisys confirming the positivity.
This covers the "what", but any investigation about "how" should be done under provisional suspension.
I don't know the CAS role and manuever margin in a situation like that.
I absolutely agree that the one that must protect her where they team/fed and that they failed miserably.
A trainer is a bit like a combat unit leader: he could expect anyone to die for him only if they believe he will die for each of them.
They showed it's definitely not like that.
"Factory Products" where the exact words ET used in unsuspected times.
I'm sure she cares for the girls but if there is to choose between the team and the girls it's team without esitation.
I understand ISU and IOC should evalutate a lot of things, being responsble not only toward Kamila but to any other competitor and the competiton as a whole but in their decisions to start a scandal involving a minor I see the same blind self interest.
Considered the timing (that is a primary factor in all this mess) and the protected status of Kamila, IOC and ISU should have sealed everything until the end, going on with the competition and the medals awarding.
That was the only possible way to protect Kamila, maybe asking privately the rusfed to retire the skater under a pretense (they would have refused tough).
They did chose to go public to protect the competition over a minor.
If in doing that they protected the other skaters it was incidental says my cynical side: they protected themself without any other regard.
Many times medals have been reassigned (it happened just yesterday for 4x100 silver).
It's not ideal but it's sadly nothing new.
They wanted to make history and they did it on the skin of a kid.
I would not say that if Kamila was 20.
If so she should have left Beijin the day of the announcement.
I'm usually hard about doping and I'm the 1st to be surprised by my position to put Kamila's wellbeing above anything else.
That does not means she should not be banned in the end of course, but pushing her in a meat mincer was not right.
I think that it will be a major part in the upcoming investigation to find out, where the sample bottles from Russian Nationals were before they were delivered to the Stockholm Lab. Because the lab produced the results within the mandatory 20 days. I've written that before - is the transport company to blame? Did someone search for the samples? What about other samples from Russian Nationals? Was the delivery delayed in general, or was only Valieva's sample delayed?
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whole post
The real people who needed to protect Kamila failed to do so, hence the positive test.
If we are looking for guilty people, it stops there. The ROC knew they were present in Beijing under very specific conditions. One of their athletes failed a test. They needed to make sure that none of their athletes would test positive. Once the test was positive, the information got out and from there on, there is unfortunately no positive outcome.
Look, I am Canadian. 1988. Ben Johnson scandal. Stripped of his gold medal. Dubin inquiry : Dubin discovers that doping is widespread in track and field in Canada. (If his investigation had been worldwide, I am pretty sure he would have discovered that it was a worldwide issue). Many coaches, athletes, doctors were banned. The Canadian anti-doping agency got very serious. Zero tolerance. If an athlete is tested positive, automatic suspension. That killed the doping culture in track and field and all over in Canada.
Canada really did not want to live through that shame again, and if ever it happens again, it will most likely be an isolated case not part of the sport's culture.
I would suggest that ROC gets serious about their doping issues and their must-win-gold culture. Then, they may solve the problem at its root.
It was to be expected that if there were a positive test from a ROC athlete leading to or during the games, it was going to create a huge mess... and if there are some tests that come back positive after the games then of course, the IOC will want to make an example.
They did it with Ben Johnson... and you know, most track and field stars doped back then... it was very convenient to get the Canadian guy out... there were others
I hear what you are saying about the IOC using Kamila etc... at the same time, I think the problem is much deeper than that. And in her case, it was her own team that failed her, including RUSADA and ROC. Not WADA, IOC or the ISU.
Considering the many posts in this thread that say :it's not a PED, or denying the problem, or the culture, it shows exactly my point : doping is not taken seriously enough and it is not eliminated right at its root. Until that is done, we will see athletes paying a way too high price for the mistakes made by their teams and sports federations.
We can agree to disagree about this.
there are a few things though that one cannot ignore.
The real people who needed to protect Kamila failed to do so, hence the positive test.
If we are looking for guilty people, it stops there. The ROC knew they were present in Beijing under very specific conditions. One of their athletes failed a test. They needed to make sure that none of their athletes would test positive. Once the test was positive, the information got out and from there on, there is unfortunately no positive outcome.
Look, I am Canadian. 1988. Ben Johnson scandal. Stripped of his gold medal. Dubin inquiry : Dubin discovers that doping is widespread in track and field in Canada. (If his investigation had been worldwide, I am pretty sure he would have discovered that it was a worldwide issue). Many coaches, athletes, doctors were banned. The Canadian anti-doping agency got very serious. Zero tolerance. If an athlete is tested positive, automatic suspension. That killed the doping culture in track and field and all over in Canada.
Canada really did not want to live through that shame again, and if ever it happens again, it will most likely be an isolated case not part of the sport's culture.
I would suggest that ROC gets serious about their doping issues and their must-win-gold culture. Then, they may solve the problem at its root.
It was to be expected that if there were a positive test from a ROC athlete leading to or during the games, it was going to create a huge mess... and if there are some tests that come back positive after the games then of course, the IOC will want to make an example.
They did it with Ben Johnson... and you know, most track and field stars doped back then... it was very convenient to get the Canadian guy out... there were others
I hear what you are saying about the IOC using Kamila etc... at the same time, I think the problem is much deeper than that. And in her case, it was her own team that failed her, including RUSADA and ROC. Not WADA, IOC or the ISU.
Considering the many posts in this thread that say :it's not a PED, or denying the problem, or the culture, it shows exactly my point : doping is not taken seriously enough and it is not eliminated right at its root. Until that is done, we will see athletes paying a way too high price for the mistakes made by their teams and sports federations.
We can agree to disagree about this.
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- Dec 29, 2013
Yes...I couldn’t agree more. This could have a huge impact on our overall understanding of things. Hopefully nothing nefarious develops. I mean really...if RUSADA somehow knew the sample would return an Adverse Analytical Finding and even if they had delayed it 45 more days after the Olympics the fact remains the sample was sent. It would have come to the light of day eventually.
I still think the ISU and IOC should have known that the last Doping Control test from a major medal contender hadn’t yet been completed going into the Olympic Games. IMO that is grounds for withholding credentials needed to access Olympic grounds let alone to compete. Had simple measures like this been in place you can guarantee that test would have been given higher priority. I suspect a lot of parties outside of just the ROC wanted to see Kamila at the games.
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