Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups | Page 228 | Golden Skate

Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

Sam-Skwantch said:
I still think the ISU and IOC should have known that the last Doping Control test from a major medal contender hadn’t yet been completed going into the Olympic Games. IMO that is grounds for withholding credentials needed to access Olympic grounds let alone to compete. Had simple measures like this been in place you can guarantee that test would have been given higher priority. I suspect a lot of parties outside of just the ROC wanted to see Kamila at the games.
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In principle, that does sound nice... and actually it does happen to a certain extent because people are tested during the games.

However, doping doesn't work like that... how can the IOC for instance, control ALL athletes prior to the games? First, some athletes are not even qualified until let's say Nationals. Teams are often named at the last minute. Testing those only who are named when they are named doesn't prevent doping. What about the others? Testing everyone all the time is impossible either. A lot of doping happens in training peak season, not necessarily in competition. How can the IOC tests just about EVERYONE of every country's pool of athletes, OFTEN enough etc..

This is why there are national anti-doping agencies.. but then, RUSADA cannot do their own testing... etc.. see, it's a circle again. It's not really the IOC's responsibility here. There are a lot of details we don't know.. Who is at fault? The RUSADA? Why the delay. ? Was the sample flagged? The lab? (I doubt it's the lab's fault)

It's the athlete's environment who is responsible and at fault, and sure, you can make this extend to more than just team, coaches, doctors and include ROC in there...
 
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4everchan said:
In principle, that does sound nice... and actually it does happen to a certain extent because people are tested during the games.

However, doping doesn't work like that... how can the IOC for instance, control ALL athletes prior to the games? First, some athletes are not even qualified until let's say Nationals. Teams are often named at the last minute. Testing those only who are named when they are named doesn't prevent doping. What about the others? Testing everyone all the time is impossible either. A lot of doping happens in training peak season, not necessarily in competition. How can the IOC tests just about EVERYONE of every country's pool of athletes, OFTEN enough etc..

This is why there are national anti-doping agencies.. but then, RUSADA cannot do their own testing... etc.. see, it's a circle again. It's not really the IOC's responsibility here. There are a lot of details we don't know.. Who is at fault? The RUSADA? Why the delay. ? Was the sample flagged? The lab? (I doubt it's the lab's fault)

It's the athlete's environment who is responsible and at fault, and sure, you can make this extend to more than just team, coaches, doctors and include ROC in there...
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I’m not sure if you’re just missing my point altogether or if you’re intentionally working around it. If you reread my first post on the matter you’ll see that I narrowed my discussion to mostly “medal contending” athletes and especially those from ROC who are going to the Olympics and other major events.

If the ISU and or the IOC can’t be bothered to make sure that one of the top athletes from ROC who is EXPECTED to medal has passed their latest anti-doping tests from their most recent event (especially most likely as you pointed out a qualify event) then some safeguards need to be put in place. No need to sit on their hands only lifting them to point fingers after something totally preventable occurs.

I have also at no point suggested anything to abscond any of RUSADA’s role in all of this nor have I commented on the coach or athlete’s roles. I just think in this case several things are true at once. I’m simply suggesting that I think it would be a reasonable action for the the ISU and IOC to put to use very tangible assets and abilities to use in order to further ensure the public, their advertisers, and athletes that every step is being taken to provide a better and fairer event. IMO these simple measures would have gone very far to help save the image of the sport and even the Olympics from “irreparable damage”.
 
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Sam-Skwantch said:
If the ISU and or the IOC can’t be bothered to make sure that one of the top athletes from ROC who is EXPECTED to medal has passed their latest anti-doping tests from their most recent event (especially most likely as you pointed out a qualify event) then some safeguards need to be put in place. No need to sit on their hands only lifting them to point fingers after something totally preventable occurs.
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Her latest test from her most recent competition was from Europeans, and that was clean as far as we know.
It is not ISU's or the IOC's business to make sure doping tests are dealt with in a timely manner (one could argue it is RUSADA/WADA's business), it is the athlete's/responsible coaching team's business not to dope.
No doping, no issue. Everything else is just muddying the waters after the fact.
 
CrazyKittenLady said:
Her latest test from her most recent competition was from Europeans, and that was clean as far as we know.
It is not ISU's or the IOC's business to make sure doping tests are dealt with in a timely manner (one could argue it is RUSADA/WADA's business), it is the athlete's/responsible coaching team's business not to dope.
No doping, no issue. Everything else is just muddying the waters after the fact.
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I was referring to the dec 25th test (RusNats) that wasn’t finished until feb 8th in the Swedish lab.

If the IOC and ISU aren’t looking at ROC with a little extra scrutiny then I find that a little concerning.

WADA was created by the IOC (although mostly funded by the US) and should in fact treat its primary goal to ensure clean and safe Olympics as job numero uno. The fact that one of the leading athletes from a ROC has an incomplete test at one of your accredited labs is alarming and concerns me. Maybe I’m being crazy but it feels reasonable to be concerned for far more than just this situation.
 
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McBibus said:
On that there is no doubt, and it is far more important that anything else we can discuss.
At 15 you don't do doping: you get doped by someone around you.
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Probably true unless the truth is something like she has been secretly stealing grandpas heart medication. I’m not insinuating she did but rather pointing out the possibilities are pretty endless and what may seem absolutely true may in fact prove surprisingly false

I don’t think we know enough for speculation at this point.
 
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Polina’s interview was enlightening. The power Eteri holds as a funnel for medals, waiting for hours for tests due to lack of water, the flawed judging…

Then there’s an article on how the sport has lost millions of viewers… sad.

Concrete steps can easily be taken to get artistry back into balance with jumps, so that fewer young kids are encouraged to overpractice and injure themselves.

They can raise limit, limit jumping requirements, score proper technique better, change program components, etc etc
 
4everchan said:
i tend to avoid TSL but in this case, they do not do the talking.. Polina does it and she is smart, articulate and not afraid to share her opinions.
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... yes, indeed Polina is smart, articulated and, at the same time, brave and courageous to stand for the truth. And, what is even more importantly in this case, Polina is Russian; her mother is Russian and father American.
Sasha Cohen also mentioned somewhere about doping young skaters in Russia.
 
Sam-Skwantch said:
I’m not sure if you’re just missing my point altogether or if you’re intentionally working around it. If you reread my first post on the matter you’ll see that I narrowed my discussion to mostly “medal contending” athletes and especially those from ROC who are going to the Olympics and other major events.

If the ISU and or the IOC can’t be bothered to make sure that one of the top athletes from ROC who is EXPECTED to medal has passed their latest anti-doping tests from their most recent event (especially most likely as you pointed out a qualify event) then some safeguards need to be put in place. No need to sit on their hands only lifting them to point fingers after something totally preventable occurs.

I have also at no point suggested anything to abscond any of RUSADA’s role in all of this nor have I commented on the coach or athlete’s roles. I just think in this case several things are true at once. I’m simply suggesting that I think it would be a reasonable action for the the ISU and IOC to put to use very tangible assets and abilities to use in order to further ensure the public, their advertisers, and athletes that every step is being taken to provide a better and fairer event. IMO these simple measures would have gone very far to help save the image of the sport and even the Olympics from “irreparable damage”.
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why are you concentrating on IOC and ISU though?

It is Rusfed’s and the coaching team’s responsibility. They are the ones who caused Kamila irreparable damage. They are the ones responsible for the crap show that was the women’s FS.

This was totally preventable because Kamila’s team could have prevented it. Full stop.

Now, if you are saying there should be discussions about improvements *after* the major players (RusFed and SAMBO 70) are investigated, I could perhaps see that. But it would need to be after RusFed and SAMBO 70 have the courage to take a good long look in the mirror, stop making excuses like a toddler (oh, the West, oh the media, oh everyone else gets away with it, oh WADA is a tool of Western Imperialist swine ) and use their considerable resources to correct the problem, then I would agree.

But “both sides” ism doesn‘t work here.
 
withwings said:
... yes, indeed Polina is smart, articulated and, at the same time, brave and courageous to stand for the truth. And, what is even more importantly in this case, Polina is Russian; her mother is Russian and father American.
Sasha Cohen also mentioned somewhere about doping young skaters in Russia.
Click to expand...

Polina has a podcast where she discusses some of the same issues, for those who don’t want to give TSL clicks.

ETA: link

bleav.com

The Iron Butterfly: 2022 Olympics Doping Scandal

Giving you all the details on the 2022 Olympic doping scandal, where 15 year old Kamila Valieva, predicted to win the gold medal in women’s figure skating, failed a drug test for Trimetazidine.
bleav.com

Polina has talked about how family came to see her skate in Sochi and they visited afterwards. But her Russian roots will be conveniently disregarded. None of the ten foot reach of trying to make American Junior men of Russian descent or even skaters coached by persons born in the Soviet Union to be “Russian”. Only noted when it’s convenient ;)
 
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withwings said:
... yes, indeed Polina is smart, articulated and, at the same time, brave and courageous to stand for the truth. And, what is even more importantly in this case, Polina is Russian; her mother is Russian and father American.
Sasha Cohen also mentioned somewhere about doping young skaters in Russia.
Click to expand...

Polina was born in the US and competed for the US and theoretically if some investigation finds there was something systematic where there is evidence to broaden the scope and remove more medals, she could potentially be retroactively awarded medals. And I don't listen to TSL but I have seen people reference her saying she saw a few Russians at a competition drink "something" then they went out and had a great practice session, but she's now adding that they don't drink anything to avoid being able to go to the bathroom for doping tests - seems a bit contradictory to each other. And does she have any actual evidence, IE a Russian girl told her something or is this her making insinuations based on observations and capitalizing on the Valieva doping test for interviews and clicks/views? So maybe we hold off on the 'she's brave and courageous and standing for the truth' characterization for coming out with these little 'stories' right when a single Russian athlete (1 of whom I'm guessing she has had no interaction with) tested positive.

Sasha Cohen's remarks were from when she trained with Yagudin and Tarasova, which was in 2002-2003 (about 18 months according to Wikipedia), that was roughly 20 years ago and a different coach. So not saying there isn't things going on but not necessarily saying that this is smoking gun evidence.
 
el henry said:
why are you concentrating on IOC and ISU though?

It is Rusfed’s and the coaching team’s responsibility. They are the ones who caused Kamila irreparable damage. They are the ones responsible for the crap show that was the women’s FS.

This was totally preventable because Kamila’s team could have prevented it. Full stop.

Now, if you are saying there should be discussions about improvements *after* the major players (RusFed and SAMBO 70) are investigated, I could perhaps see that. But it would need to be after RusFed and SAMBO 70 have the courage to take a good long look in the mirror, stop making excuses like a toddler (oh, the West, oh the media, oh everyone else gets away with it, oh WADA is a tool of Western Imperialist swine ) and use their considerable resources to correct the problem, then I would agree.

But “both sides” ism doesn‘t work here.
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I’m saying in addition and actually regardless of the outcome to any investigation into Kamila’s case the IOC and the ISU need to take a good hard look at extra measures they could take to prevent something like what happened from happening again.

Of course any athlete or team that knowingly dopes is the primary problem ...I think that goes without saying but I still think it wise to ask ourselves how on earth this could happen and what can we do to help eliminate it or anything similar from ever happening again. I’m looking at it from the damage this did to the sport and to the Olympics...not just Kamila. In my not so humble opinion the former being far more important.
 
el henry said:
why are you concentrating on IOC and ISU though?

It is Rusfed’s and the coaching team’s responsibility. They are the ones who caused Kamila irreparable damage. They are the ones responsible for the crap show that was the women’s FS.

This was totally preventable because Kamila’s team could have prevented it. Full stop.

Now, if you are saying there should be discussions about improvements *after* the major players (RusFed and SAMBO 70) are investigated, I could perhaps see that. But it would need to be after RusFed and SAMBO 70 have the courage to take a good long look in the mirror, stop making excuses like a toddler (oh, the West, oh the media, oh everyone else gets away with it, oh WADA is a tool of Western Imperialist swine ) and use their considerable resources to correct the problem, then I would agree.

But “both sides” ism doesn‘t work here.
Click to expand...

Disagree that improvements need to wait till after the investigation. From an international agency/organization perspective some fairly immediate changes they could/should consider that don't appear to need some investigation conclusion of Sambo/RusFed from my perspective, to name a few:
  • This 'protected athlete' status for under-16 athletes, if an athlete is competing in the senior level of their sport but due to their age is granted protections for some offenses, its unfair to all other athletes that aren't 'protected' status and an opportunity for exploitation
  • An athlete's own country having the authority to rescind a doping ban
    • The timing on the Valieva test results put Rusada in a position where they had nothing to gain from keeping her suspension, they would have lost the opportunity for the women's sweep, they would have been ridiculed at home (likely going based off the reactions I've seen from Russian press/important figures over there) and probably adversely affected Russia's ability to keep the Team gold
 
Amei said:
Disagree that improvements need to wait till after the investigation. From an international agency/organization perspective some fairly immediate changes they could/should consider that don't appear to need some investigation conclusion of Sambo/RusFed from my perspective, to name a few:
  • This 'protected athlete' status for under-16 athletes, if an athlete is competing in the senior level of their sport but due to their age is granted protections for some offenses, its unfair to all other athletes that aren't 'protected' status and an opportunity for exploitation
  • An athlete's own country having the authority to rescind a doping ban
    • The timing on the Valieva test results put Rusada in a position where they had nothing to gain from keeping her suspension, they would have lost the opportunity for the women's sweep, they would have been ridiculed at home (likely going based off the reactions I've seen from Russian press/important figures over there) and probably adversely affected Russia's ability to keep the Team gold
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Agree that improvements should not wait.

Completely agree about "protected athlete". All athletes sent to senior competitions must be subject to the same rules. Also about a home country lifting a suspension.

Related to that, I have read, although I cannot find the links, from coaches/feds in other countries saying (paraphrasing) "If I hadn't gotten the results for an athlete we were sending to the Olympics, I would be calling the lab every day, I would be banging down their door, I sure as heck wouldn't sit around for a month waiting for the report". The whole situation is indeed odd.
 
Here is some food for thought.
What if it was a family member who gave her the drug?
The fact that her Grandfather was taking the drug is suspect.
Every one wants to put the onus on Eteri and her staff. But
what if she is very angry with Kamila for putting them in this spot?
Thus her coldness towards Kamila when she faltered. One also must
remember cultural differences too. Remember too that she had
two other very good skaters who did medal with one winning the gold.
Even if they wanted Kamila to withdraw, someone higher up may have
overruled them. No, I would say Eteri does not cuddle her skaters.
But they are very successful and Parents keep sending their little
girls to her with big dreams so in my books they are also guilty.
Think the IOC President is out of line making comments like this.
I think people rush to judgement before all the facts come out.
What is sad is a 15 year old is caught in the middle of this.
I am sure I will be hammered for this, but frankly I don't care.
 
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