MIA - Split Lateral Twist

[discodisco]

Anyone have any idea why this isn't done any more? Brasseur and Eisler used to do a (I think I have the name correct) split lateral twist to open their free program, and a regular twist towards the end of their program. The split lateral twist has the woman facing forward on the takeoff, so I presume it's 2.5 rotations like an axel? Or am I incorrect?

Anyway, I believe that's what hampered them in 94, as apparently (28 years ago so my memory is cloudy!) she cracked her rib doing it? Or perhaps it was something to do with that move hurting her cracked rib, so they couldn't practice it...

Either way, it was a tough move, and I don't remember anyone else doing it since. Anyone know why?

 

[gordana]

Thank you fr your interesting question. I suppose it is because of the difficulty of Axel twist that isn't rewarded properly under the current rules. A retired Russian pairs skater Amina Atakhanova was asked by a fan if she can do the Axel twist and answered she and her partner had tried to learn it on the floor without any attempts of bringing it to the ice. And I guess many pairs skaters don't learn it at all.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

^^ Yes, there are a lot of creative moves that aren't done anymore. In looking at old pairs videos, it's really fascinating to see a lot of moves still done today, but done in a way back then that almost seems more efficient, and with less unnecessary bells and whistles. For instance, there were a lot of fascinating lifts like the no-hands overhead lift (performed by Sean Rice & Jodeyne Higgins) at 1993 Worlds; also performed by Brasseur/Eisler -- B/E were lift innovators during their time-- In the U.S., in later years, Evora/Ladwig had exciting and interesting lifts.

In the early years of lift development, skaters did not have to hold the positions as long, or change to so many positions in the air, like they do today. I also think that the skate blade hold (innovated by Aliona Savchenko) was not necessarily a great developmeIt began to lead to some of the overly contortionist moves we see today, when for example, a simple flip-out dismount from an overhead lift was done so well years ago, and looks so clean and pretty. Today, there has to be all this huge, sometimes overdone difficulty. I think skaters and choreographers should go back to some elegant basics. At the least, there should be more of a balance between difficulty and clean, simple, elegant, basic execution. Also, there needs to be more freedom for creativity in the free programs.

I want to see more connection and storytelling and theme skating, which is much more difficult to achieve today with all the rules requirements, coupled with the recent 30 seconds shaved off free programs.

 

[skylark]

In the early years of lift development, skaters did not have to hold the positions as long, or change to so many positions in the air, like they do today. I also think that the skate blade hold (innovated by Aliona Savchenko) was not necessarily a great developmeIt began to lead to some of the overly contortionist moves we see today, when for example, a simple flip-out dismount from an overhead lift was done so well years ago, and looks so clean and pretty. Today, there has to be all this huge, sometimes overdone difficulty. I think skaters and choreographers should go back to some elegant basics. At the least, there should be more of a balance between difficulty and clean, simple, elegant, basic execution. Also, there needs to be more freedom for creativity in the free programs.

I want to see more connection and storytelling and theme skating, which is much more difficult to achieve today with all the rules requirements, coupled with the recent 30 seconds shaved off free programs.

Agree with all of this. Isn't it all because the skaters earn more points by doing the overly complicated (sometimes ugly) moves. So, tweaking the scoring for pairs is a solution.

Still, one team is leading the way in beautiful, held moves, picture-perfect elements, story telling and theme skating: Cain-Gribble/Leduc. I would love to see more teams following their lead in bringing back more unison as an ultimately points-getting value. Such an effort results in more emphasis on choreography and executing it pristinely and with emotion.

As for the lateral twist, I think the first post is a good explanation for why more pairs don't try it.

 

[uandmfan]

I'd like to see a reworking of pairs base values. I hate to see sbs jumps be so important. Quad twists should be worth more, and quad throws. Lifts should also be worth more and I agree that a lot has been lost from the 6.0 system in terms of beautiful lifts. Higgins & Rice, Brasseur & Eisler had amazing lifts that in some ways still hold up today. But they were much better looking. Some teams do fantastic lifts these days. But most look forced and laboured to me.

I think it's insane that the forward outside death spiral is worth the same as the backwards outside - everything I've read makes it sound like it's so much harder. Although this whole having to hold the death spiral for 3 rotations has ruined it for me. They seem so long.

I miss the days of creativity with twists too. Underhill and Martini also did a lateral. Several Canadian teams did laterals in the mid 90s. If I understand correctly teams can only do one twist now.

Granted, I pay much less attention than I used to so maybe I'm missing something!

 

[TontoK]

We're in the "way back" discussion now. I think, and someone will correct me I'm sure, that the US Champs and eventual Olympic silver medalists, Kitty and Peter Carruthers introduced lateral twists somewhere around 1980. It was a popular variation that seems to have died out very suddenly.