Update on 2022-23 Grand Prix Series

[lariko]

No, it has always been 12 Singles, 10 Dance teams, 8 Pairs. At the 2000-2001 GP, two events wound up with only 7 Pairs due to withdrawals.

I'm sure there will be opportunities for NA skaters and teams that had no hope of skating in the GP in the past.

Well, are they taking off the cap on per country entries now? Just to stick it to… you know?

 

[4everchan]

@lariko you can look this up yourself (pairs missing out) but stellato-deschamps only got challengers last season... matte-ferland only got a host spot...

It happens every year that some teams do not get to compete on the GP... and while I agree that GP can be reserved for the top skaters, in a year where said top skaters have retired or are not competing, then, why not give these other teams a chance...


Honestly, my hunch on this whole ordeal has nothing to do with pairs... the ISU is just waiting to secure the venues... once that is done, the assignments will go up and they probably already have decided how they will go about the shortage in pairs... and it will be what it is, like it or not

 

[Jumping_Bean]

thanks for the correction so even easier then..

8 pairs X 6 events = 48 spots divided by two spots... 24 pairs.

We can probably find 24 pairs.

and if not, the seeded pairs, could get 3 spots like it's been done some years.

So 6 seeded pairs x 3 spots = 18 spots. only 30 spots remain. At two spots each, that's 15 more teams = 21 pairs.

Still not enough pairs? Well, make it 3 spots for 16 pairs.

I really don't think it is a problem.

Even easier, GPs have a corridor of entry numbers and not one set number. For pairs, there would have to be at least 6 entries (and at most 8) at each event, so if everyone got two spots that would mean only 18 pairs on the GP circuit, without even giving anyone a 3rd assignment.

 

[lariko]

It happens every year that some teams do not get to compete on the GP... and while I agree that GP can be reserved for the top skaters, in a year where said top skaters have retired or are not competing, then, why not give these other teams a chance...

A chance to do what exactly?

 

[Kris135]

I think if the British Figure Skating officials can not get their act together then I have another location. I that might be better. The CS ICE CHALLENGE in Graz, Austria is happening during same weekend so why not just upgrade it to GP and be done with it. Because skaters need to know where they are completing this season and this point the delay is nothing short of ridiculous. When there is a chance the Junior assignments could be released before GP ones means that if a skater wants to compete in both junior and senior levels, and this happens with some skaters especially ones that are about to move up and now they are going have to pray that the schedules line up and that their junior event does not conflict with their senior ones. Just announce it already if it changes fine we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Why not have it in Italy?????

 

[yesterday]

Why not have it in Italy?????

Because the GPF is already there.

 

[Amei]

Because the GPF is already there.

Gonna repeat what I said earlier - Beggars can't be choosers and the ISU is the beggar here. Pretty laughable in a pathetic way - their premiere international series and they can't manage to get a solid host for a grand total of 6 events.

 

[4everchan]

A chance to do what exactly?

to compete at a GP. Some of these teams will never make it to worlds. Why not give them an opportunity if there is some available? There is prize money as well for GPs. And actually, some countries, like Canada, give extra funding for teams competing abroad. So why not? The pairs discipline has often been so strong at the top... and then weak quickly in the mid/lower tier... This is a golden opportunity to give experience and high profile context to those mid level pairs. I don't see a problem with that.

 

[4everchan]

Even easier, GPs have a corridor of entry numbers and not one set number. For pairs, there would have to be at least 6 entries (and at most 8) at each event, so if everyone got two spots that would mean only 18 pairs on the GP circuit, without even giving anyone a 3rd assignment.

as I said, i do not think the delay is because of the pairs field... but the venues.... but since people were talking about pairs and how they should revamp/shorten the gp season etc... i got into the argument that actually, pairs are fine... (in terms of number of teams)... .whatever way the ISU goes, and the ISU may lower down the number of teams as you suggest, I will be fine with it...

 

[lariko]

to compete at a GP. Some of these teams will never make it to worlds. Why not give them an opportunity if there is some available? There is prize money as well for GPs. And actually, some countries, like Canada, give extra funding for teams competing abroad. So why not? The pairs discipline has often been so strong at the top... and then weak quickly in the mid/lower tier... This is a golden opportunity to give experience and high profile context to those mid level pairs. I don't see a problem with that.

They will be competing out of their league. If you can even call this competing. I mean, it’s understandable in Juniors, but in seniors, getting the total score lower than the top guys’ SP… That’s not a competition, that’s a wipe.

 

[4everchan]

They will be competing out of their league. If you can even call this competing. I mean, it’s understandable in Juniors, but in seniors, being 40 or 50 points behind… Yakes.

ermmm... pretty much any woman who was not russian (or perhaps japanese) was competing 40 or 50 points behind ... so what's the difference here?

If anything, pretty much no pairs attempt elements that will set them up so far ahead.. it's more about the quality of execution... so despite the potential point difference, the lower level pairs may be closer than the top... compared to the top 3-4 in women last year... versus the lower ranked ones...

 

[lariko]

ermmm... pretty much any woman who was not russian (or perhaps japanese) was competing 40 or 50 points behind ... so what's the difference here?

There was more close scores when you mixed everyone together. In Skate America I attended last year, top six women were pretty close and competitive, and Russians were mixed with Japanese and Koreans. If it were fair, I think it would have been even closer between them. They didn’t look like two different leagues, Olympians playing local high school…

 

[4everchan]

There was more close scores when you mixed everyone together. In Skate America I attended last year, top six women were pretty close and competitive, and Russians were mixed with Japanese and Koreans. If it were fair, I think it would have been even closer between them. They didn’t look like two different leagues.

pretty much only the Russian women have the quads and triple axel. To me, that's another league. All the pairs pretty much perform a 3toe and a 3 salchow... as well as triple throws... the only big difference sometimes comes on the twist... some teams have a harder time with the triple... or even do a double...

 

[lariko]

pretty much only the Russian women have the quads and triple axel. To me, that's another league. All the pairs pretty much perform a 3toe and a 3 salchow... as well as triple throws... the only big difference sometimes comes on the twist... some teams have a harder time with the triple... or even do a double...

No, that’s simply not true. Not all Russian women have 3A or quad. In Skate America last year, only Trusova had her trusty quad Lutz, while Usacheva and Sinitsina didn’t jump any ultra-c. Young You landed 3A and Sakomoto would have been higher if she didn’t miss on a combo.

As for pairs, you will have only what? 6 (?) teams left from the top 24 in current standings who are capable of triples. The rest of the teams will have to come from the the folks with group B lifts, double throws etc. Just look at the world standings chart. It’s decimated at the top and basically wiped out.

 

[4everchan]

No, that’s simply not true. Not all Russian women have 3A or quad. In Skate America last year, only Trusova had her trusty quad Lutz, while Usacheva and Sinitsina didn’t jump any ultra-c. Young You landed 3A and Sakomoto would have been higher if she didn’t miss on a combo.

As for pairs, you will have only what? 6 (?) teams left from the top 24 in current standings who are capable of triples. The rest of the teams will have to come from the the folks with group B lifts, double throws etc. Just look at the world standings chart. It’s decimated at the top and basically wiped out.

i disagree
but let's leave it at that. Assignments will come soon.

 

[lariko]

i disagree
but let's leave it at that. Assignments will come soon.

You can’t disagree with the facts. Just look at the chart. It’s a strike-through after strike-through.

 

[4everchan]

You can’t disagree with the facts. Just look at the chart. It’s a strike-through after strike-through.

There are the facts, and the interpretation of such facts

I presented some facts too... some Canadian pair teams who have all the same elements as the top teams who didn't get to attend the GPs last year... these teams do not do lower level lifts and double throws. I am looking forward to seeing them on the circuit.

Regarding your experience at Skate America, good you enjoyed it. In general, the biggest point gaps come in the singles discipline, not in pairs or dance as teams have more or less the same elements...

The GP I attended saw Trusova with almost 100 points over the last place finisher Veronik Mallet.
In the men division, Hanyu had about 60 points over the second place finisher Nam Nguyen and about 130 over last place finisher Kerry.

Pairs and dance, with the main contenders from the elite 50 points from the top to the last place... much more homogeneous.

So remove a few top pairs in the pairs division, I believe that the field overall will be weaker of course, but the gap, not so much widened.

 

[surimi]

Gonna repeat what I said earlier - Beggars can't be choosers and the ISU is the beggar here. Pretty laughable in a pathetic way - their premiere international series and they can't manage to get a solid host for a grand total of 6 events.

Perhaps Italy itsef doesn't want that many events though. They have a Challenger and GPF, maybe they weren't interested in holding another competition.

Regarding pairs, it could go either way, I'm partial to both solutions. Accepting lower-ranked pairs would bring down the level and wouldn't be fair to other disciplines where skaters have to meet stricter criteria, but pairs are in an unusually bad shape this year regarding the number of top tier pairs left. It's not just the post-OG retirements but the Russian athlete ban on top of that that caused this. Or the ISU could be strict and simply downsize the fields to 6 pairs at each event, or limit the number of GP without pairs, which is regularly done for Challengers.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I've seen it floating around that in order to get assignments we need the Sheffield Steelers to move venues for one of their games or else look at alternative venues in England, because the ISU will not start assignments without 6 confirmed venues.