Mens SP

[Medusa]

Evan did tie and won. so he did TIE!

Oh my, let's not start again... But there is still the "Men's LP" at the Nationals Forum, or the "Johnny Weir was robbed" - we can have a little fistfight there.

I loved Evan's SP way better than his try at Nationals - and I am back to my first assumption, that his Triple Axel was downgraded - if not, he was robbed . Never thought I would say that about Evan.

Before watching the programs I thought that maybe Takahashi skated his soul out, but he wasn't better than at the GPF and I start thinking that maybe the judges reward his style more than his abilities. His jumps were good but not really outstanding, his footwork was great as always - but it doesn't justify marks this high.

It's quite easy to understand why Takahashi is a favourite (which is not his fault and I really like him), COP was developped after 2002. In 2002 everyone was enchanted by Yagudin's style (and also Plushenko's) and choreography - the lively footwork etc. So while defining the requirements for the footwork etc. the officials probably thought of Yagudin. But Yagudin was choreographed by Morosov - so to some extend Morosov's choreography and preferred style became a requirement for high levels. And we all know who Morosov's star pupil is... There is not really room in the footwork requirements for other styles than the Morosov-style (except for Lambiel, but that guy is extraterrestrial anyway), a Jeffrey Buttle mit more subdued and subtle choreography tends to look less sensational and overwhelming than a Takahashi. With the COP they want a fireworks, that's the way to get the high levels and high GOEs - which in my opinion is not really fair and punishes more subtle skaters.

If Alexander Abt had been the best man around 2002, won the OGM etc. - maybe guys like Buttle would be first choice nowadays.

 

[mizu_iro]

Not really. I'd say that Takahashi's jumps are better than Jeff's in general, and Jeff had problems on his lutz. Last year was the reverse situation - although Takahashi had the home crowd going for him in Tokyo, he placed behind Buttle in the SP because he had minor problems on his jumps.

 

[merrybari]

Perhaps Lysacek skated really sloppy and didn't get GOE, botched up a spin or had no drive... Still, my guess is that he messed up the Axel and underrotated it.

Wasn't sloppy at all - and the axel was fully rotated. The final spin was a bit slow and maybe travelled a bit. Was an awesome skate - as the scores attest. No telling until protocols are released what the details were - as seen by the judges anyway.

I thought it was brilliant!!

 

[Hsuhs]

I think DT is in a league of his own. I can't compare him to Evan. Honestly, can't.

 

[oleada]

I think DT is in a league of his own. I can't compare him to Evan. Honestly, can't.

Me either.

 

[Tonichelle]

I can't believe someone put Evan and Artistry in the same sentence --- LOL :chorus::chorus::chorus:

Art is in the eye of the beholder... there are a lot of artistic works out there that I can't stand... and I'm sure my favorite pieces make others cringe too.


That being said I feel Evan's programs, this year, are pretty basic knockoffs of past programs... time to change it up a bit (but then Frank's last big star, Miss Kwan, also seemed to keep with the idea of 'if it isn't broke don't fix it' so I guess it depends on who's going to call the shots?).

 

[chuckm]

The scores are really inflated! And don't look at my signature! Or my avatar. This has nothing to do with me being, ahm, patriotic! I watched it (thanks to Hsuhs and the nice Chinese TV) - and I think the the judges like Takahashi a bit too much. And I love Takahashi - but he wasn't 4 points better than at the GPF.

As much as I enjoy Buttle and his style - I think the inflation started with him, they gave him so much points - then Lysacek came along and only botched up his last spin, so they had to give the lead to Lysacek, but Lysacek already had the same amount of points Takahashi got at the GPF in the SP - and it would have been funny if Takahashi had beaten Lysacek at the GPF in the SP by four points (and Lysacek's only mistake there was the 4T-3T Combo with -GOE, the Quad that Takahashi didn't even have in his program) so they somehow gave Takahashi so much GOE that he still won the SP by quite a margin.

I agree with this, and I would add that I was completely puzzled by Buttle getting 83+ points for his SP, because his lutz was off balance and barely saved. This was one of Jeff's best SPs so far this season, but it was hardly worth an 80, let alone an 83. Lysacek's also delivered HIS best SP so far this season, and for a change his jumps had no two-foots, turnouts or wild landings; I was even more puzzled when he scored less than a point higher than Buttle.

I like Takahashi very much, but even his great performance did not rate a score of 88.57.

Chalk it all up to Regional ISU Championship score inflation.

It isn't real, folks, don't set any store by it.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I can't believe someone put Evan and Artistry in the same sentence --- LOL :chorus::chorus::chorus:

I wouldn't put Artistry with any skater under 27. There is Taste for some that is different than others.



Reading these posts, I conclude that Evan, like Kimmie, is getting the old negative posts, and those posters seem to be happy about it. C'est la vie.

Joe

 

[jennylovskt]

Reading these posts, I conclude that Evan, like Kimmie, is getting the old negative posts, and those posters seem to be happy about it. C'est la vie.

Joe

The conclusion is the less artistic skaters, the more criticism they will get from hardcore skating fans.

 

[beep_beep]

oh, look at those twizzles on Evan... I think the problem for him happened on his spin...
haven't seen the others yet, just got my youtube started...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The conclusion is the less artistic skaters, the more criticism they will get from hardcore skating fans.

You see less artistic skaters, and I see all skaters as too young to be artistic. Think about the great Art in painting, sculpture, dance, voice, theater and give me the names of the great artists at 16 years of age. Not much beyond Mozart. I do see talent, though in sports.

Great Art and Great Craft are not the same thing, imo.

Joe

 

[Tonichelle]

The conclusion is the less artistic skaters, the more criticism they will get from hardcore skating fans.

what about the hardcore skating fans who enjoy watching and cheering for said skaters?

 

[demarinis5]

what about the hardcore skating fans who enjoy watching and cheering for said skaters?

Thank you! :agree:

 

[jennylovskt]

You see less artistic skaters, and I see all skaters as too young to be artistic. Think about the great Art in painting, sculpture, dance, voice, theater and give me the names of the great artists at 16 years of age. Not much beyond Mozart. I do see talent, though in sports.

Great Art and Great Craft are not the same thing, imo.

Joe

I understand what you mean. But no artistic skaters in skating? Isn't that a little extreme?

what about the hardcore skating fans who enjoy watching and cheering for said skaters?

Sure, they are hardcore skating fans, too. No more, no less. I believe that people who come up the internet skating forums are all hardcore skating fans.

The truth is, like I said, skaters with less artistic abilities, or maybe I should say that the skaters who are difficult to be interpreted and comprehended by most people, in the way they skate, will get more criticism. And the fact that these skaters couldn't use their movements to make their ideas come cross, and reach people, proved in another way that they have less artistic abilities.

 

[netnuts]

Evan should be far ahead of Buttle. He has difficult but secure jumps, excellent footwork and energy.

When he's on, he should be unbeatable...

 

[laceup]

As they say "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I prefer the beautiful edge quality, passion and flowing moment of Jeff Buttle over flailing arms and angry faces any day but that's JMO! This wasn't Jeff's best skate, by far, but he is still excellent in the artistry department - even if he's not 27.

 

[Wrlmy]

more than two points of GOE on both triple axel and 3-3 seem... too much. The best triple axel I've seen so far from currently competing skater has to be Johnny Weir's and Vaughn Chipeur's. Takahashi has excellent qualities to his jumps but not as good as aforementioned two IMO as far as triple axel goes. Has anyone gotten more than 2 pt GOE on any type of combo? I know Yu-na has gotten several 2s but never higher than that. Anyway, it was a great skate from Takahashi, but I've seen better from him.
AND, Evan's twizzles Just wow! And gotta admit he looks so good in black

 

[lerei]

All this talk about Evan and Daisuke and inflation but no talk about Father Time, his quad and his fifth place finish.

CHENJIANG!!!

 

[Vodka Shot]

I'm pleased to see a quadless program beat one with a quad. There's so much more to mens skating than that one jump. It should be about the over all presentation and story imo, not some math game. I'm sure Evan is a bit perturbed though that the "magic quad" didn't save him.

I'm looking forward to seeing the insane lutz from Buttle I keep reading about. Was it that bad?

Glitter punk sounds like a glam punk rock band or something, lol.

 

[qooh]

Takahashi

3A GOE 2.43 OMG!!