Men's LP

[bekalc]

And no, penguin girl, I don't think that the competition was rigged, I just think that the judges are sometimes a bit biased and Borodulin didn't impress the judges before this competition as much as Rippon did - and therefore had a harder time to get those high PCS. He may need to upgrade his step sequences - but this still doesn't explain the differences in the PCS today. In my opinion Rippon was more tense and less secure today than he was at nationals and at other competitions this season - but the Judges didn't see it that way.

Brodulin was injured this season.. Apparently it's a miracle that he's still able to compete. Thus, I don't think the judges actually saw him this year. Since he isn't as well known, I think that hurt him. It's kind of like Caroline Zhang and Mirai Nagasu. I know a lot of people like Caroline better, but in the case of skating skills, there is no way Caroline should get higher skating skills than Mirai. But that happened last year at Junior worlds.

I suspect though that it had to do with the fact that the international judges knew Caroline but didn't know Mirai.

That's why though nobody talked about Brodulin because nobody really knew him.

 

[lmarie086]

Rippon and Guan overscored. Mroz, Brezina and Reynolds underscored.

I agree with you that Brezina was underscored-especially in the short program, btw I agree Joe-but Reynolds? He bombed the the short and from what I hear, still wasn't spot on in the free. Regardless, his presentation skills need improvement, so he wouldn't have gotten the higher PCS.
And while I like Mroz, he needs some better choreography. I really really like his music for the free, but he needs to do more with it IMO.

 

[kittyjake5]

Thanks Medusa for your pbp and all of your interesting comments.

 

[Skye]

Brodulin was injured this season.. Apparently it's a miracle that he's still able to compete. Thus, I don't think the judges actually saw him this year. Since he isn't as well known, I think that hurt him. It's kind of like Caroline Zhang and Mirai Nagasu. I know a lot of people like Caroline better, but in the case of skating skills, there is no way Caroline should get higher skating skills than Mirai. But that happened last year at Junior worlds.

I suspect though that it had to do with the fact that the international judges knew Caroline but didn't know Mirai.

That's why though nobody talked about Brodulin because nobody really knew him.

But Borodulin was also the only guy who beat Rippon this season. (He was injured after winning his 1st JGP over Rippon) So there WERE some of us talking about him and he was NOT making a debut on the international scene here as a complete unknown. I have to agree with Medusa that judges were less generous with Borodulin (We all know how judges can pick their favorites even with CoP - US Nats, anyone?) and he probably would have won this with the same skate, if he had not missed out on the latter half of this season.

 

[bekalc]

But Borodulin was also the only guy who beat Rippon this season. (He was injured after winning his 1st JGP over Rippon) So there WERE some of us talking about him and he was NOT making a debut on the international scene here as a complete unknown. I have to agree with Medusa that judges were less generous with Borodulin (We all know how judges can pick their favorites even with CoP - US Nats, anyone?) and he probably would have won this with the same skate, if he had not missed out on the latter half of this season.

Yeah, I didn't know about that one. But I think it still kind of applies, he wasn't first and foremost in the judges minds....

 

[luckyguy]

I agree with you that Brezina was underscored-especially in the short program, btw I agree Joe-but Reynolds? He bombed the the short and from what I hear, still wasn't spot on in the free. Regardless, his presentation skills need improvement, so he wouldn't have gotten the higher PCS.
And while I like Mroz, he needs some better choreography. I really really like his music for the free, but he needs to do more with it IMO.

Look at the technical score and the PCS of Rippon and Reynolds. Can anybody belive that Reynolds is so bad in the PC?

1 Adam RIPPON USA 130.55 66.27 64.28 6.43 6.04 6.46 6.46 6.75 0.00
4 Kevin REYNOLDS CAN 125.01 74.09 51.92 5.50 4.93 5.21 5.14 5.18 1.00

 

[persimmon]

Look at the technical score and the PCS of Rippon and Reynolds. Can anybody belive that Reynolds is so bad in the PC?

1 Adam RIPPON USA 130.55 66.27 64.28 6.43 6.04 6.46 6.46 6.75 0.00
4 Kevin REYNOLDS CAN 125.01 74.09 51.92 5.50 4.93 5.21 5.14 5.18 1.00

As someone who has seen Reynolds skate live, I can believe it.

 

[efreedman]

Some of your comments

Adam Rippon, USA

- prefer the SP-costume
- I think I would enjoy him more if there wasn't a thread saying "who will win over Adam Rippon?" - all this hyping really bugs me and I always wish someone would win over him

3F-3T
3L
3R
2A - great jumping passes, he is great!
Circular Steps - Morosov makes him do this "caress your face" Miki also has to do this
Sitspin
Spread eagles into
3L-2T-2R - not much height left
3F - lots of ice, double footed?
2A - weird step-out - 3S --- or was this a sequence?
Straightline - can he change the coach?
Combo spin with great layback

130,55 - into first place

The thread labeled "Who will win over Adam Rippon" could easily be read as a put down as opposed to a hyping of Adam; in fact it was mean spirited to begin with. Your observation that you wish someone would win over him because of supposed "hyping" could be construed as just as mean-spirited.

The 2A weird step-out-3 S is a sequence and is meant to be this way. Did you watch the US Nationals Junior Men's competition?

My last question is, have you ever seen Adam skate live?

 

[chuckm]

Reynolds has the quad and the 3A, but he falls fairly frequently on at least one of the two quads in his FS, and he doesn't tend to get high +GOE on most of his elements. His step sequences are level2 and level1 and he doesn't perform them with any pizzazz. He skates totally without reference to the music.

Borodulin's program is heavily front-loaded---7 of the first 8 elements are jumps. That's why his choreography score is so much lower than Adam's. And it's no wonder Artem can't do footwork any tougher than level1, because he's totally exhausted by the time he gets to elements 10 and 12. OTOH, Adam's footwork sections are the highlights of his FS program. They are usually rated level3 or level4, and he gets good +GOE on them.

 

[Hsuhs]

The 2A weird step-out-3 S is a sequence and is meant to be this way.

What 3S?
2A+SEQ 3.08 x -0.23 This was planned?

My last question is, have you ever seen Adam skate live?

I'd be very careful answering this one!

 

[Skye]

What 3S?
2A+SEQ 3.08 x -0.23 This was planned?

Adam had a bad landing on his 2A and there were too many steps between the 3S to count for a sequence. That's why Medusa explained it "weird" I think.

Borodulin's program is heavily front-loaded---7 of the first 8 elements are jumps. That's why his choreography score is so much lower than Adam's. And it's no wonder Artem can't do footwork any tougher than level1, because he's totally exhausted by the time he gets to elements 10 and 12. OTOH, Adam's footwork sections are the highlights of his FS program. They are usually rated level3 or level4, and he gets good +GOE on them.

I have to check my vids again, but I believe there was a spin between Borodulin's 4th and 5th jumping pass. Actually, Rippon's program is jump-jump-jump-jump-some other elements-jump-jump-jump-jump again, just like every other Morozov program.

 

[Brandi_DeLain]

Adam is a very polished skater and an absolute joy to watch. His spins and footwork are great, as are his jumps. When he starts landing the 3A in competition -- look out!

My impression (and I watched the entire men's competition on ice network) is that Adam looked like a senior skater (minus the 3A) among juniors. He has a smoothness that is pleasing to the eye -- no herky-jerky movements or awkward, wooden positions. I'm very happy that the judges rewarded a well-rounded skater as opposed to one with just a couple of big tricks but very little in the way of connecting elements. That is just my opinion, of course.

Congrats, Adam!!!

 

[Medusa]

The thread labeled "Who will win over Adam Rippon" could easily be read as a put down as opposed to a hyping of Adam; in fact it was mean spirited to begin with. Your observation that you wish someone would win over him because of supposed "hyping" could be construed as just as mean-spirited.

The 2A weird step-out-3 S is a sequence and is meant to be this way. Did you watch the US Nationals Junior Men's competition?

My last question is, have you ever seen Adam skate live?

Well, of course it is "mean-spirited". And it wasn't so much the title but the fact that lots of posters said that Adam is impossible to beat - and that always makes me feel weird

I think that Adam will compete with himself only.[...]this skater would never get as high points for component mark as Adam and as high points for spins and steps as Adam....in long program component mark is multipled twice...

I think everything is on Adam. At US Nats he faced up the pressure very well...

If he skates like he did at Nats (perfectly) he will win for sure.

He is artistically far above everyone else. He also seems very consistent in his jumps. I believe he'll win in a runaway.

That kind of hyping bugs me. It just does. And the same way I am happy if a second-class soccer club beats Bavaria Munich (the best soccer club in Germany) - I am happy and positively surprised if a skater who was supposed to "win in a runaway" doesn't win that easily. If that makes me "mean-spirited" - I can totally live with that.

The weird sequence was probably not meant to be that way - the protocols only say this "2A+SEQ".

And yes, I watched his performances at Nationals, otherwise I wouldn't be able to say that he looked more tense and less secure.

Nope, I have never seen him skate live. The only non-European skaters I ever seen live were the ones taking part in the Worlds 2004 - living in Europe kind of limits your opportunities.

 

[oleada]

I don't think you need to see Reynolds live to realize that his PCS scores are very weak.

I'm delighted with the podium. I thought Artem and Adam were very good. I do think the right man won, but I also think it should've been a bit closer, especially in the SP. I'm delerious for Guan, who I loved yesterday.

 

[chuckm]

I have to check my vids again, but I believe there was a spin between Borodulin's 4th and 5th jumping pass. Actually, Rippon's program is jump-jump-jump-jump-some other elements-jump-jump-jump-jump again, just like every other Morozov program.

Borodulin's non jump elements were at 5, 9, 10, 12 and 13


Rippon's non jump elements were at 5, 6, 7, 12 and 13.


Rippon had a well-balanced program. Borodulin did not.

 

[efreedman]

Ah, I Get It

"Well, of course it is "mean-spirited". And it wasn't so much the title but the fact that lots of posters said that Adam is impossible to beat - and that always makes me feel weird"

OK, now I understand what you meant by hyping. Any skater can be beaten on any given day, especially if they tense up, which I agree, Adam did. I saw the SP but couldn't see the LP. After reviewing the protocols, obviously Adam messed up on that 2A Salchow Sequence that he did so well at Nationals and a few other elements and his GOE's reflected it. I was lucky enough to be in the front row to see both of his performances at Nationals where his skating was fluid and seamless.

"The only non-European skaters I ever seen live were the ones taking part in the Worlds 2004 - living in Europe kind of limits your opportunities."

What about going to Trophee Eric Bompard and the Grand Prix Final as well as this year's Worlds? As an American, it is problematic to get to Europe for competitions. Even Skate America can be a long haul if you live on one coast or another and that applies to Nationals as well.

 

[Hsuhs]

3x 2A as an indicator of a well-balanced program? Well, I guess, balance is in the eye of the beholder then.

And there were so many more "little" things....

 

[bekalc]

Borodulin's program is heavily front-loaded---7 of the first 8 elements are jumps. That's why his choreography score is so much lower than Adam's. And it's no wonder Artem can't do footwork any tougher than level1, because he's totally exhausted by the time he gets to elements 10 and 12. OTOH, Adam's footwork sections are the highlights of his FS program. They are usually rated level3 or level4, and he gets good +GOE on them.

After the short program, Borodulin mentioned that he only started doing steps in January... I wouldn't assume that he's somehow "incapable of doing higher level footwork"

And quite frankly I don't think either program was that well blanced, given the order you mentioned....It shoudln't have made the difference....But who knows, if I'm Artem I'm just thrilled that I was able to be that good in that short of a time, his triple axel is gorgeous to, which should able to help come Seniors when it's necessary.

 

[Medusa]

What about going to Trophee Eric Bompard and the Grand Prix Final as well as this year's Worlds? As an American, it is problematic to get to Europe for competitions. Even Skate America can be a long haul if you live on one coast or another and that applies to Nationals as well.

There are certain elements in my life - they are called med-school, very limited amount of money - that mostly don't allow me to leave the country for a few days to watch a figure skating event. I've seen some shows in Germany, Switzerland and France, have been to the Nebelhorn Trophy - but more isn't possible.

But I am glad you understand my point about the hyping and the sequence.

 

[oleada]

After the short program, Borodulin mentioned that he only started doing steps in January... I wouldn't assume that he's somehow "incapable of doing higher level footwork"

He had level 3 for both sequences in the JGP Bulgaria (where he beat Rippon), so I think his injury might have had something to do with it.

And I agree, his triple axel was gorgeous.