Ladies Long Program

[mizu_iro]

Well, Dick and Peggy certainly agreed with us old-timers who are still used to the "the sum is greater than the parts" mentality. Dick burst out in laughter after he saw that Nakano wasn't first, and he and Peggy were also surprised when Yu-Na's skate wasn't enough to put her ahead of Carolina.

I'm really sad that this is the last year of ESPN/ABC coverage...Worlds next year with Hamilton and Bezic is going to be terrible

 

[ManyCairns]

Carolina, Kimmie

Carolina Kostner!

Holy Cow! After watching the TV coverage of the ladies long program I can honestly say that Carolina, in my opinion, did not deserve the silver medal. What a sloppy mess of a program. Her spirals were terrible and the long 4 to 5 second delay on the entrance to almost all her jumps is amateurish.
Dizzy

I gotta agree with this. Not saying Carolina is not a world-class skater, because she certainly is, but this program _subjectively_ looked a mess.

However, after hearing her interview with Carruthers, I even more completely discount the reports that she said anything out-of-line about her competitors. Frankly, Carolina seemed much more disappointed in herself for her unclean landings than was Kimmie with her two falls. But she (Carolina) was gracious and glad to have done what she did, and I just don't see her saying untoward things about the other skaters.

On a different note, I remember other posts in the past suggesting that Kimmie was a little out of touch with reality in her comments, and I always dismissed them, because I do think athletes have to talk an "A"-game if they hope to have an "A"-game. But a two-fall performance, and also one that was kind of "meh" in other respects, would not have most athletes seeming almost, well, overjoyed or borderline bubbly ... or am I just being an old grouch?

 

[kyla2]

Thoughts

Carolina's program was an absolute mess. She should not have been on that podium regardless of which scoring system was used. What a gift that was. This girl is consistently overscored because of her speed. Enough already.

Mao deserved the gold medal regardless of her fall. Her program and skating is in a class of its own. Yukari should have been second and Yu Na Kim third.

I am proud of Kimmie for doing a pretty good job especially considering the year she has had. Good for her.

I am so sorry for Miki. With the Japanese media being what it is, I feel really badly for her.

Someone said it best above this post. I am a member of the "sum being better than the parts" group. If the ISU doesn't fix this, skating is going to be history.

 

[Vicky458]

Didn't Dick say something like points would be "found" for Kostner? I am not sure of the exact quote but he knows more than what is always said. What a farce. Carolina didn't deserve that silver medal. It was definately a gift. There is now way she should have even been on the podium with that sloppy performance. I still don't see how she was ahead of Mao in the SP either. this judging system still needs to be perfected. It is a shame.

 

[nghtvsn]

Whew. I've spent some time reading/looking over about the past 20 pages to gather other thoughts and opinions.

I have no qualms about Mao winning. After that miss on the axle attempt to re-focus and do 3/3 imo regardless of the downgrade I thought that was extremely impressive and I actually like that program alot.

After rewatching Yukari's performance I can accept the downgrade to the 3x. That's perfectly fair, however, I still appreciate the attempt and the landing of that attempt. I watched that second triple flip and I just don't see where the downgrade comes into play but that's neither here no there. Average viewers can tell when people make mistakes and when people have good or great performances. This system just doesn't work when someone can seemingly have a clean perfect performance and yet fail to medal against programs that were either more "polished" or "fully rotated" on all jumps and so even with their mistakes they still end up on top. It used to be so simple under the 6.0 system because when someone muffed things up you knew and could tell in the marks whereas here the average viewer can't determine this. They aren't going to go lookup the scoring sheet just to see wth happened. Whatever, I can only hope this system gets tweaked or whatever needs to be done because there is an intangible that can't be judged and that's when someone just brings the house down and delivers and that's what's missing imo.

 

[dizzydi7]

As far as Kimmie Meissner goes and her comments........

I look at this as a robotic reply. I expect that her new coach has told her to respond to questions in a positive manner showing confidence in herself. Or she is going to some shrink who has provided her with responses. I have to believe this or the alternative is to believe that Kimmie actually thinks her performance at Worlds was a big improvement. I will admit that Kimmie has improved her presentation and she has some good seconds in her programs. However, falling 2 times in the long program was not a big improvement over Nationals no matter how many times she says it.

If she can work very hard over this next year and regain confidence getting her jumps more consistent in competition, perhaps she can make the World team next year. However, there are some talented ladies in the U.S. chasing her for the two spots. Time will tell.

Dizzy

 

[gio]

It is all so funny. I've read Italian forums today and a lot of people think Carolina should have won gold, because Mao fell.

 

[Mathman]

It is all so funny. I've read Italian forums today and a lot of people think Carolina should have won gold, because Mao fell.

Now I'm curious, Gio. What did you think of Carolina's skate?

 

[gio]

Now I'm curious, Gio. What did you think of Carolina's skate?

What can I say, I don't like her style. And her LP was not my favourite LP. She had to win the bronze medal, because her jump technique is so much better than that of Nakano, so no way Nakano in third place with those jumps. But Yu Na jump technique is as good as Carolina and she landed all those jumps perfectly. Carolina did too much mishaps. It was sloppy. Also the other elements were sloppy.

So
1.Mao
2.Yu Na
3.Caro

 

[rtureck]

What can I say, I don't like her style. And her LP was not my favourite LP. She had to win the bronze medal, because her jump technique is so much better than that of Nakano, so no way Nakano in third place with those jumps. But Yu Na jump technique is as good as Carolina and she landed all those jumps perfectly. Carolina did too much mishaps. It was sloppy. Also the other elements were sloppy.

So
1.Mao
2.Yu Na
3.Caro

I think Carolina is one of those skaters who look better live than on TV. When you watch her live, her amazing speed is very impressive. IMO, YuNa's jump technique is better than Caro's, (BTW, I am a Carolina fan). I like to see Caro get a good choreographer, and a program that will showcase her strengths. Why did she pick Dvorak's piano trio Dumky op 90? It is an almost unskateable piece of music. It took Michelle Kwan the entire 2000-01 season to tame that piece of music, and she wasn't skating under COP back then. I have no problem with the podium placement.

I understand why the judges put YuNa first in the lp. I know YuNa has some of the best jump technique in the business, she probably has the best 3f/3t among ladies. YuNa has some of the best arm choreography, and very good flow on the ice. But somehow all the separates do not add up as a whole for me.

I love Mao's skating, so glad she is world champ now. I hope she finds a good coach, please Mao get rid of the flutz, get a real lutz. It is amazing to see that she is landing a good solid triple toe.

 

[gocaroline]

Afer I wathec ABC today here is what I think:

Congrats to Mao, Yuna and Yukono

Love Yuna's LP the most even though she was not at her best, bravo to Mao's gutsy come-back performance after the shocking fall Love the whole energy in Yukono's LP (too bad she didn't land on the podium:disapp

And Joannie Rochette made a new fan out of me JUST her this year!

Got totally confused and mad about the judging of CaroK's LP. It is a totally ridiculous high mark for that shaky and falling apart LP I do love her SP, such nice flow and beautiful program, though I don't think it's enough to overtake Mao's SP.

Very mad about ABC's not showing BB Liang's LP:mad
They even showed Ashey's LP with her overall 16th finish but chose to omit BB's LP with the overall 10th finish!

And last, I was in tears when Miki's LP was on even though I already know what happened to her LP from the posts here She was obvious in pain and it was just heart-broking when you see it. I wish her a speedy and complete recovery and best wishes for her:love

 

[Matt]

Boy, have I got a LOT to say about this one...

Haven't been on the forum in forever (hi guys!). Glad my account still works b/c i'm in the mood to RANT...

HOW IN THE HELL DID NAKANO NOT EVEN END UP ON THE PODIUM?!?!?!? I have watched the routine over and over (multiple broadcasts) and as far as I can tell, every replay has her 3axel within 1/4 rotation, meaning it should have gotten full credit. Even if you downgrade the 3axel, she still had more clean landings than Kostner, a more secure edge on her spiral, better spins and higher PCS. This was not a skate that deserved 4th on the night behind Kim, Asada, and Kostner; isn't the point of the new judging system to reward skaters who skate cleanly? And for everyone who is so quick to point out her wrapped free leg, I have two words: Midori Ito. Look up any of Ito's performances on YouTube and you will find her leg was wrapped as well and no one said anything of it when she skated cleanly (although I admit hers wasn't to the degree of Nakano's, but still). At the very least, Nakano deserved the bronze medal, though I would argue she should have gotten at least the silver

I don't care if Kostner has the best jumping technique in the universe (and yes, her jumps are probably the most fully rotated of all the ladies)...for goodness sake, she still has to land them and land them clean. The 3f-3t-2l at the beginning was fantastic, but that was about it. She was only given credit for a clean landing on 3 triples (the opening combo and a 3l later on). And how in the world she managed +GOE on a level 4 spiral when she almost dropped her foot on the second position is beyond me...

 

[gold12345]

After watching the ABC broadcast, I am really, reallyyyyyy annoyed that Carolina made the podium with that mess of a program. I don't think she deserved to be anywhere NEAR the podium. If this is what the current judging system rewards, we need an OVERHAUL. I am completely stunned as to how that long program scored over a 100, nevermind a 120! What a joke. It wasn't even just her terribly shaky jumping.. it was the wobbly spirals, the slow and wobbly spins. It was just a mess.

And I'm no Dick Button fan, but I had to agree with him when he said that Kiira Korpi doesn't deserve to be in the Final group at a World Championship. She has some beautiful qualities, but she was not impressive here and was much too high going into the long program.

 

[indicatoto101]

What saved Carolina was her program's base value - 64, 10 points higher than Yukari's - 53(with the downgrades). Even if Yukari landed everything correctly, I don't think she could have beaten Kostner on the technical mark.

 

[bekalc]

What saved Carolina was her program's base value - 64, 10 points higher than Yukari's - 53(with the downgrades). Even if Yukari landed everything correctly, I don't think she could have beaten Kostner on the technical mark.

I didn't see the program, but many say Kostners double axe/3toe the 3 toe was underrotated. And my biggest issue is with Kostner's PCS. She should always get high SS pcs, but she should have been severly dinged on Performance/Execution. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave her less negative GOE than she should have gotten.

 

[Tonichelle]

I didn't get to see Mao or the last skater... Nakano? because I was on the phone with a co worker (haven't talked to him since September, and yet he talked me into running errands for him, he owes me big time! LOL!)

anyway I just wanted to share some of my dad's observations from the top 6... I was chatting online with my mother and apparently he was getting very excited at teh TV watching the skating. I love my daddy

anyway - he hasn't been following skating for the last few years, I moved out 5 years ago and so he only really catches the Pro shows when I remember to email them and tell them to watch. They watch US nationals when I go to try to pick me out of the crowd, so they don't really pay attention to the skating lol

Dad was not impressed with the judging when it came to Carolina Kostner. With the problems she had he couldn't understand why she wasn't given deductions (I then had to explain the CoP to him... NOT easy lol)

Mom was unimpressed with Korppi, and dad basically said the same stuff Peggy Flemming said.

Dad was most impressed with Mao, but that's pretty much a given. Even with the fall he agreed with her placement... and he LOVES YuNa - he finds her incredibly inspiring.


He also apparently argued a few times with Dick Button, I'm not sure if Button ever argued back

over all he said he's seen way better events... considering he's watched most skating events since Dorothy Hamill won olympic gold (had a big crush on her... and Kristi is his favorite ladies skater of all time... ) I'm sure he has...

he liked the reflections pieces and said he'd rather watch all of those programs in full! *shrugs*

 

[indicatoto101]

After watching Kostner's program, I honestly don't think it was that bad. She had 2 hands down and a step out, but she attempted a 3-3-2 and 2a-3t which added to her high base value. As Chris would say it , it was gutsy performance.

 

[kandidy]

This ladies world competition is the worst one I have seen since there is CoP-_-''.
Is this the lowest score of the gold medalist in history?

 

[inskate]

I actually think it was better than 2 years ago... Yes, the scores were lower, but had the current scores been in place, the scores from previous championships would have been very much lower indeed.
It is sad that one of the medal contenders ended up withdrawing, and it is sad that Yukari didn't made the podium. The judges were stingy for some, while perhaps too generous for others. The judging aside, overall, it was a good competition. Mao improved tremendously since last year, YuNa did great in spite of injury, and Yukari skated the lights out...

It's a bit disappointing that there were so many stumbles - not only in ladies, but also, perhaps even more so, in men... A few skaters complained that the ice is difficult to skate on, and I wonder if it played a role here.

I think it's been a bit of a transition year... Just like when CoP was being introduced, and then the rules kept changing... And considering all those changes I think it's become meaningless to try and compare the scores from previous seasons.

 

[Particle Man]

As far as Kimmie Meissner goes and her comments... I look at this as a robotic reply. I expect that her new coach has told her to respond to questions in a positive manner showing confidence in herself. Or she is going to some shrink who has provided her with responses. I have to believe this or the alternative is to believe that Kimmie actually thinks her performance at Worlds was a big improvement. I will admit that Kimmie has improved her presentation and she has some good seconds in her programs. However, falling 2 times in the long program was not a big improvement over Nationals no matter how many times she says it.

That's a pretty cold statement. Kimmie was crushed after Nationals. Her clean Worlds short program was a big triumph for her, and rightly so. Yes she fell twice in the long - well, at least that is 1 less time than Nationals, and she has only been going to her new coach for a handful of weeks. You were expecting the Kimmie of 2006 Worlds to magically return? It doesn't work that way. Kimmie is absolutely right to come out of this with a positive attitude, anything else could mean the end of her career. And she went from 7th at Nationals to 7th at Worlds. Looking at it that way, it's DEFINITELY an improvement.

I would say Kimmie has stopped the bleeding. She can now take a break, and make a fresh start in 08/09 with a new mindset, probably sticking with a new coach who is excellent at dealing with jumps; she has gotten better artistry and is more well rounded. Of course she will have some incredible competition, but Kimmie is a competitor. If she and Callaghan can fix the jumps, she will be competitive. If not, she would be done with or without the new phenoms skating against her. I don't expect her on the Worlds team for LA, but stranger things have happened. And if she comes back and starts skating clean and better than ever, that will still be a triumph whether or not she beats the young phenoms.