Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Pairluv]

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/dalniyles/3218467.html This works well with google translate if you don't read Russian.

It was virtually impossible for her to prove lack of intent which was the basis for the ruling. The only way to have done that would be for someone to publicly announce they'd slipped her the drug without her consent. To my knowledge, that was never done. At 15 she should never have been interviewed without her parent or guardian or lawyer present. Ever. In the US, that alone would be sufficient to get a criminal charge dismissed. There were so many missed steps made by a lot of people and unfortunately, Kamila is the one to pay the price. My heart breaks for her.

 

[Mathematician]

Again... don't you believe it, mate and if you do, I would ask you to imagine Trusova's unvarnished reaction yesterday when she heard (given her meltdown then that she didn't get a gold, now she knows she should have been in the team and they would have kept it). Also, Rusfed etc and the girl herself have been fighting like crazy to keep that one.


... which is not helping your argument???

But the athlete's disposition to medals doesnt have anything to do with my value of them as a sports viewers.

also that statement that i dont know her score perfectly helped my argument, lol? the guy said, nobody knows usain's number, just the facts of his record. so.... exactly...? the numner doesnt matter then in and of itself? its the foundation for the fact which does matter.

 

[beachmouse]

Not expected. Quite unprecedented. WADA must now go after every protected child athlete with the same vigour as they have pursued Valieva otherwise questions will be asked. It does not matter if it is a trace amount of a common drug no-one really knows whether it gives benefits, but WADA must go after them and seek 4 years.

This is what people wanted.

In addition to Mackenzie Headley, I’ve found reference to a 14 year old (probably Indian) swimmer who tested positives for steroids is not named because of protected minor status and who was described as provisionally suspended ahead of the 2023 Asian Games

Fourteen-Year-Old Indian Swimmer Fails Doping Test Prior To Asian Games

The athlete, who has not been named due to being a minor, tested positive for 19-norandrosterone, a metabolite of the anabolic steroid nandrolone.

swimswam.com

I was surprised to see Kamila get a four year ban- it’s pretty rare to see that long for a first offense unless there are extenuating circumstances, and I was thinking a year and forfeited Olympic results and such would be fair for all parties involved. I do think the length of her suspension has been impacted by previous Russian doping scandals and how there was ll this pinky swearing that anyone who was competing as ROC in Beijing was absolutely positively clean. And then she wasn’t.

So I see her as having to serve longer than most in the name of trying to send a message to the adults in Russian skating who many feel had played a role in her positive test but, well, hard to have enough evidence to pursue a CAS case against them in her case.

I wish the link to the CAS findings was posted here, as it was in the original thread. I don't see it in the first post here.

Having read the reported CAS ruling, please note that the arbitrators said their decision is binding. But that a limited appeal could be made. I think that means the ban will stand as is. There are only certain limited aspects of the ruling that can be appealed. I doubt they can appeal the disqualification of Valieva's competition results.

The limited appeal areas for CAS decisions tend to fall in the realm of civil rights violations. The two that come to mind are Sun Yang‘s successful appeal to have his second suspension reduced because one of the arbiters had shown bias against Chinese people in something he had posted on social media, and Caster Semenya’s failed appeal over the rights of intersexed athletes to compete in the women’s division of elite track and field.

Do the conditions of the ban allow her to train? I thought that athletes accused of doping violations were not allowed to be professionally involved with the sport during the duration of the ban.

I know in swimming, an athlete is allowed to resume training with a credentialed coach in the last 3-4 months of their ban if they’re planning on returning to competition after their suspension ends.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

Now, if you want for Canada to medal, i understand that, even i really dont think by watching that team competition Canada deserved any medal, as Japan was not that deserving a silver, and USA was not deserving a gold... Theyve just not performed that well as a team whatever medal (or no medal) they get at the end...

What Canada... Now Vincent Zhou and Karen Chen will become Olympic champions. This is real justice. Come to the Olympics, completely fail everything - and get gold. A triumph of clean sport.

 

[TallyT]

Ok dont let her skate in shows, i dont care. let her skate for herself.

Or do her own solo show? Hey, the IOC etc couldn't stop her and if the Russian public are willing to put their money where their mouths and outrage are (ps, I doubt it but I could be wrong).

 

[Remilia]

The mods will have to lock this thread soon

So I see her as having to serve longer than most in the name of trying to send a message to the adults in Russian skating who many feel had played a role in her positive test but, well, hard to have enough evidence to pursue a CAS case against them in her case.

If that was the goal, then the actual adults involved should have been punished. The only one who suffers from the decision to ban her for so long is Kamila herself, not any of the responsible adults. Why should they care or see it as a warning when they suffered no punishment? Though, I do feel like the length was probably influenced by the fact that Kamila had been competing and winnings medals like normal for the past 2 years

 

[Mathematician]

Or do her own solo show? Hey, the IOC etc couldn't stop her and if the Russian public are willing to put their money where their mouths and outrage are (ps, I doubt it but I could be wrong).

Sure if she wants to do somehow organize that go ahead, she would need to rent her own facility for that regardless so it voids the clause of barring her from training, which is my quarrel. I see no reason why any athlete should be barred from training if they cant compete already or "profit from their dishonestly" as someone put it which is vague irrelevant anyways.

 

[gsk8]

Do you want to trust the system? Well then, first, look this system in the face:

I didn't follow the case on the swimmer, but don't believe WADA was involved? Only the Independent Anti-Doping Panel (IADP)? Do you have any sources on this?

 

[Baron Vladimir]

What Canada... Now Vincent Zhou and Karen Chen will become Olympic champions. This is real justice. Come to the Olympics, completely fail everything - and get gold. A triumph of clean sport.

Well, it is what it is... What i said many times after the Sochi Olympics, i would give all the 3 medalists in ladies figure skating competition a gold medal, and in men competition i would reward skaters only with a tiny silver and one tiny bronze... But i guess, nations are knowing the rules of the game and they all want the gold, that is what only matters for them

 

[icewhite]

The UCI wanted Jan Ullrich to be banned from all pro cycling events (in any position) for life. CAS did not go with that, but for instance the Italian doping doctor Ferrari has been banned by the Italian Olympic comittee from all activities as a doctor and coach for life and cyclists are not allowed to be near him. I think that if the ROC or RUSADA had appeared to deal with it themselves in a half-reliable way, or if they had put Shvetsky under investigation Kamila might not be in this situation now. Really, that's what's so mindboggling, how can you not see that Kamila was not targeted by international organizations, but was basically left out in the cold by the Russian organizations and her coaches?

 

[snowed]

Ok dont let her skate in shows, i dont care. let her skate for herself. thats the opposite of profit she literally has to pay money to be part of the academy and she cant even make money off it through competition or doing shows. perfect. zero profit off of her dishonesty.

I found this: https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/LEGAL_code_appendix.pdf

10.9 Status During Ineligibility
No Person who has been declared Ineligible may, during the period of
Ineligibility, participate in any capacity in a Competition or activity
(other than authorized anti-doping education or rehabilitation
programs) authorized or organized by any Signatory or Signatory's
member organization. In addition, for any anti-doping rule violation
not involving specified substances described in Article 10.3, some or all
sport-related financial support or other sport-related benefits received
by such Person will be withheld by Signatories, Signatories' member
organizations and governments. A Person subject to a period of
Ineligibility longer than four years may, after completing four years of
the period of Ineligibility, participate in local sport events in a sport
other than the sport in which the Person committed the anti-doping
rule violation, but only so long as the local sport event is not at a level
that could otherwise qualify such Person directly or indirectly to
compete in (or accumulate points toward) a national championship or
International Event.
[Comment: The rules of some Anti-Doping Organizations only ban an Athlete
from "competing" during a period of Ineligibility. For example, an Athlete in
those sports could still coach during the Ineligibility period. This Article
adopts the position set forth in the OMADC that an Athlete who is made
ineligible for doping should not participate in any capacity in an authorized
Event or activity during the Ineligibility period. This would preclude, for
example, practicing with a national team, or acting as a coach or sport
official. Sanctions in one sport will also be recognized by other sports (see
Article 15.4). This article would not prohibit the Person from participating in
sport on a purely recreational level.]

If I understand well, she can skate, just not part of any isu (and rus fed is part of isu) activity (including training with coaches part of isu) and not make money out of it...

 

[NaVi]

I didn't follow the case on the swimmer, but don't believe WADA was involved? Only the Independent Anti-Doping Panel (IADP)? Do you have any sources on this?

The IADP is Jamaica's equivalent to RUSADA's Disciplinary Anti-Doping Committee (DAC). The IADP decision should have been reviewed at WADA and they could have appealed that decision to CAS.

 

[beachmouse]

I didn't follow the case on the swimmer, but don't believe WADA was involved? Only the Independent Anti-Doping Panel (IADP)? Do you have any sources on this?

Swimswam has a summary. She’s a Jamaican national representing Jamaica who trains in the USA. Which is extremely common for Caribbean swimmers looking for better coaching and more good pool time. I don’t know if she’s got dual USA citizenship.

(Edit) and Jamaica’s antidoping agency, who sanctioned her, had long been known as an ineffective joke in track and field circles.

Jamaican Swimmer Mackenzie Headley Reprimanded By Doping Panel For Two Positive Tests

The 16-year-old will not serve any period of ineligibility due to being a "protected person" under the WADA code as a minor.

swimswam.com

 

[niks]

I wasn't expecting a 4 year ban honestly, this seems very hard as in all doping cases I've heard of, the sentence has always been 1 or 2 years maximum (maybe I'm wrong here and there are other cases with a 4 year ban?). But maybe since she has actually kept skating these past 2 years, they thought they would give her a 2 years "effective" ban, who knows.

I knew though that the Russian Gold team medal was lost, it has been lost since a long time specially with the turn around on global politics since the Olympics. And I agree that medal was all Russia has been fighting for since the doping broke out. Nobody else except Kamila will be punished for anything either, but sadly we all already knew that was going to be the case. Nobody else has even been investigated, not by Russia but even more telling, not by WADA either. So the blame starts and ends with Kamila; everything and everyone else is ok; the team medals get redistributed and the whole thing gets neatly wrapped and shown aside. I'm sorry if this is kind of a cynical view, but it's the reality. Not particularly uplifting and certainly not a model result to be proud of I'm not even sure if it can be qualified as justice; if in fact, it is justice, it's a very squalid version of it.

Some posts talked about the skaters that got hurt by this situation, focusing on the USA and Japanese teams that didn't get their medals in time. It will be far from ideal of course, but these teams will get their medals, upgraded and I'm certain with a lot of publicity and reinvidication. ISU / IOC will make a big deal of the fair redistribution of medals and those teams will get their big moment of shine, albeit delayed.

So I just feel it is fair to include in that group of by-standing athetles hurt by the mess, the other members of the Russian team, who will lose the medal they fought hard for, for no fault of their own, and get nothing in return. I mean, after all, Katsalapov skated both programs with an acute back injury and probably going through a lot of pain. And I can't help thinking of Mark, who looked so so scared when he started both his skates, like he just wanted to run away from there, and you could actually see him forcing himself to start skating by sheer will power. Can't possibly imagine the amount of pressure he was under and had to overcome, being the "weak" link of the chain (which he surprisingly turned out not to be in the end)

Btw, I've read the CAS statement and can't find any reference to Kamila being banned from training or from skating in shows; they only talk about "ineligibility" which only means she can't enter competitions. Where does the information about the ban from training / shows come from? I can't really imagine how can they possibly keep her from skating in shows, since those are private enterprises completely away from any ISU / WADA/ CAS control. Even keeping her away from training seems quite hard to police in practice. At least if all this is finally over, she can start trying to move away from it and rebuilding her life past it. She is not even 18, as crazy as that sounds.

Wow, this sure turned out to be a much much longer post than I expected

 

[Alex Fedorov]

I didn't follow the case on the swimmer, but don't believe WADA was involved? Only the Independent Anti-Doping Panel (IADP)? Do you have any sources on this?

I gave a link to a more detailed article back in the summer, but no one paid attention to it, as I understand it. Now it’s just what is immediately found:

Jamaican Swimmer Mackenzie Headley Reprimanded By Doping Panel For Two Positive Tests

The 16-year-old will not serve any period of ineligibility due to being a "protected person" under the WADA code as a minor.

swimswam.com

I don’t really understand what you want to say with these words “WADA is not involved.” Yes, the decision to “punish” the athlete (the punishment was a reprimand and nullification of the results in two competitions) was made by the IADP. But in Russia, too, a decision was made to nullify Kamila Valieva’s results at the tournament, where she was found to have a prohibited substance (RusNats). This was the decision of the anti-doping committee. And in this case, WADA immediately became involved by filing a protest. This is the question - why the decision of the Russian Anti-Doping Committee was immediately protested, but the decision of the IADP was not. WADA did not demand any punishment for the athlete caught doping.

The problem is "WADA was involved" in one doping case and "WADA not involved" in very similar doping case. There is no need to fight for the clean swimming, maybe?

 

[snowed]

Btw, I've read the CAS statement and can't find any reference to Kamila being banned from training or from skating in shows; they only talk about "ineligibility" which only means she can't enter competitions. Where does the information about the ban from training / shows come from? I can't really imagine how can they possibly keep her from skating in shows, since those are private enterprises completely away from any ISU / WADA/ CAS control. Even keeping her away from training seems quite hard to police in practice. At least if all this is finally over, she can start trying to move away from it and rebuilding her life past it. She is not even 18, as crazy as that sounds.

Wow, this sure turned out to be a much much longer post than I expected

I was curious about the same thing... See my post above #183

 

[Ziotic]

I wonder if the 4 years is to retroactive the last two years where she has been skating and earning money in shows. So really two year ban effectively

 

[Baron Vladimir]

The UCI wanted Jan Ullrich to be banned from all pro cycling events (in any position) for life. CAS did not go with that, but for instance the Italian doping doctor Ferrari has been banned by the Italian Olympic comittee from all activities as a doctor and coach for life and cyclists are not allowed to be near him. I think that if the ROC or RUSADA had appeared to deal with it themselves in a half-reliable way, or if they had put Shvetsky under investigation Kamila might not be in this situation now. Really, that's what's so mindboggling, how can you not see that Kamila was not targeted by international organizations, but was basically left out in the cold by the Russian organizations and her coaches?

1st FFKK (or whatever the name is) is deciding their national teams after the Europeans.
2nd All the medalists tested after the Europeans were negative.
Conclusion / I dont see how is that simply ROC or Russada mistake, even i dont like how those and same organizations in the other countries are working... The LAB in Sweden is the one to blame the most for me...

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I just cant believe she isnt allowed to train, thats absolutely crazy. They literally took away her life. I would actually be on suicide risk in her place just being honest. Rules are rules and you cant change that but to ban her from even getting on the ice is UNBELIEVABLE.

You are acting like this is somehow a special punishment made up especially for Kamila. It is not. It's literally a standard (and usually mandatory) part of any period of ineligibility due to anti-doping rule violations - Including provisional sanctions.

Kamila has already been gifted two more years of training and competitions than athletes in similar situations, who were forced to wait for years to even get to the point of a trial, all while not being allowed to train, and all without knowing when and if there would be an end to their waiting any time soon. That, in my opinion, is much more unbearable than Kamila's situation, in which she knows that she'll be allowed to return to elite training in October 2025.

 

[beachmouse]

Okay, I found the 2015 ISU anti-doping rulebook-

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications-archives/352-1922-isu-anti-doping-rules/file

It looks like the four year ban is specific to the ISU for this kind of case when there is a violation under rule 2.1 or 2.2 and they can’t prove accidental ingestion/cross contamination. I’m guessing that this rule is a result of trying to clean up speed skating at some point and figure skating got kind of caught in the cross fire.

And then we get down into
11.2 Consequences for Teams
11.2.1 If any competing member of a Team including substitutes, is found to
have committed a violation of these ISU Anti-Doping Rules during a
Competition for Team Discipline Skaters, the Team shall be Disqualified from
that Competition and any Skater who is found to have committed an ISU Anti-
Doping violation in that Competition shall be sanctioned individually
according to these ISU Anti-Doping Rules.

The IOC doesn’t haver to follow federation rules for IOC events but generally does.