Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[4everchan]

She's been stripped of her points. This is why ROC are bronze instead gold.

Let me clarify. I know she lost her points. But the points were not given to the next skater, so not made available to them. It is in that sense that I wrote "retain". Which is exactly why I wrote in the next sentence... Not sure why that didn't come across properly but in any case, happy to clarify.

 

[Jontor]

Well, I'm glad to see how folks are focusing on the really important issues like world records and such, and not concerning themselves with trivial questions like WHO DRUGGED A CHILD?

We will never know. Personally, I still think she was set up. The competition in women's skating in Russia is brutal. There are a lot of fans of other skaters that might want to see Kamila gone. The security around the athletes during training sessions at Nationals weren't that great, and anyone could have spiked Kamila's water bottle or something...

 

[4everchan]

A positive test does not indicate the athlete was drugged, it could be contamination that the athlete can never prove. It is guilty until proven innocent. Of course the training headquarters should be investigated to cover every base.

Still it was a strange decision to give 4 years to Kamila when we compare to the 15 year old swimmer who got caught doping twice despite saying it was either contamination or sabotage with zero proof to back this up. Just words.

She will have certainly served her punishment at the end of 2025 and all should be forgiven. Few athletes have ever paid a higher price.

Valieva's lawyers had argued she was contaminated by traces of the trimetazidine medication they said her grandfather used.

"Having carefully considered all the evidence put before it," the court said in a statement, "the CAS panel concluded that Ms. Valieva was not able to establish, on the balance of probabilities and on the basis of the evidence before the Panel, that she had not committed the [doping violation] intentionally."

Source:
The Associated Press

 

[Caliban]

Wait, do i understand it right - this is how rule based process look to US?

appeals notwithstanding

 

[Caliban]

Valieva's lawyers had argued she was contaminated by traces of the trimetazidine medication they said her grandfather used.

"Having carefully considered all the evidence put before it," the court said in a statement, "the CAS panel concluded that Ms. Valieva was not able to establish, on the balance of probabilities and on the basis of the evidence before the Panel, that she had not committed the [doping violation] intentionally."

Source:
The Associated Press

That doesn't mean that she do it intentionally

 

[4everchan]

That doesn't mean that she do it intentionally

I am aware of that but since we are talking about rules, then here is a basic anti-doping rule :
When an athlete tests positive and wants to appeal of the positive result, the athlete has to prove their innocence. Failure to do so = guilty.

 

[4everchan]

In any case, I am going to move on from this thread with these words :

With all the possible appeals, the medals will not be awarded to the deserving athletes for at least another year or so. I feel sorry for them.

 

[Caliban]

I am aware of that but since we are talking about rules, then here is a basic anti-doping rule :
When an athlete tests positive and wants to appeal of the positive result, the athlete has to prove their innocence. Failure to do so = guilty.

I agree, but discussion started from question why Russians dont care about "WHO DRUGGED A CHILD?", and answer is that we think it was just random contamination.

 

[Skating91]

Valieva's lawyers had argued she was contaminated by traces of the trimetazidine medication they said her grandfather used.

"Having carefully considered all the evidence put before it," the court said in a statement, "the CAS panel concluded that Ms. Valieva was not able to establish, on the balance of probabilities and on the basis of the evidence before the Panel, that she had not committed the [doping violation] intentionally."

Source:
The Associated Press

Whether they believe her or not is not my point. She is probably as confused by how it got into her system as much as anyone, so they came up with a theory of how it possibly could have happened.

My point was that it is strange the 15 year old swimmer caught twice for doping, didn't even have to offer on the balance of probabilities how the drugs ended up in her system, she merely said I don't know it must have been either contamination or sabotage. All she got was a reprimand and WADA ticked off on this.

It's so bizarre how one athlete can get 4 years for one positive test of a trace amount, and the other received no punishment for two positive tests. Kamila at least attempted to come up with a theory as to how it was in her body, the swimmer shrugged her shoulders and said it must have been contamination or sabotage.

No wonder some people start to think this is all politically motivated (I'm not one of those people of course).

 

[skatingguy]

Is she also prohibited from training or just banned from domestic and international competitions? (Sorry I just found out the news)

My gosh that's horrific. I guess that would be to end of her professional career. Such a shame

When an athlete receives a doping ban they are banned from competition, and they are banned from training, and receiving funding, or participating in any event that receives government funding.

 

[Skating91]

I am aware of that but since we are talking about rules, then here is a basic anti-doping rule :
When an athlete tests positive and wants to appeal of the positive result, the athlete has to prove their innocence. Failure to do so = guilty.

Of course WADA is guilty before proven innocent they can play God with athletes careers. It might be the most unjust tribunal system in the world many innocent athletes have been caught in the net over the years (also missed many dopers right under their nose as well).

But I'm not WADA, and I don't have to accuse an athlete of being a willful doper if they are found to have had a trace amount of a common heart drug in their system. I can explore all possible theories. WADA only explores one theory: Failed test = doper. There is no room for nuance.

I think Kamila is as confused as anyone as to how the drug got into her system.

 

[iceskater10]

The Canadians had already hung the bronze medal around their own necks lol.

I can see why the ISU went down their path it means it has no effect on the places below ROC, and logically, Kamila skated there in good faith, ROC picked her in good faith, it is not their fault that the Swedish lab violated the WADA code by not returning the result within the 20 day limit.

Canada just need to let it go, Russia as well. It's a hollow gold for most of the USA team anyway. Had the result been given to Valieva 30 hours earlier after sitting on it for 6 weeks, Valieva would have been replaced and Karen Chen would have easily been beaten by Shcherbakova or Trusova.

 

[jgg220]

That doesn't mean that she do it intentionally

There is no exception in the rules of WADA, CAS, or any other relevant agency here for "unintentional doping." Look at what happened to Jessica Calalang for one of many examples.

We are talking here about a case in which an extremely prominent figure skating coach and her team offered a defense to international regulatory agencies that Valieva accidentally ingested TMZ from her grandfather's water glass. That was literally their argument. And apparently they chose that instead of arguing that the TMZ was baked into a cake.

Here we have people arguing that the doping was unintentional or conspiratorial, as if rabid Alena Leonova fans were hoping for her to come back and make the Beijing Olympic team by taking down Valieva, using lax security at Russian Nationals as an opportunity to spike her water/vitamins/whatever she ingests with TMZ. Because, clearly, if someone wanted to spike a drink with materials banned in skating, they would choose TMZ of all things (I guess these fans are too young to remember Meldonium?).

This point has already been made above, but of course the people who intentionally doped Valieva should be investigated and, if found responsible, punished. In no universe is that incompatible with agreeing (or partially agreeing, or disagreeing) with Valieva's ban and the reallocation of the Olympic team medals.

Instead of conspiracy theories, whataboutism, and giving the benefit of a doubt when a doubt objectively doesn't exist, again I emphasize that grandpa's drinking glass was literally the defense here. And if the real problem is the focus on Kamila rather than who doped her, maybe talk about that instead of insisting on her innocence and unfair punishment, and excoriating skaters who have been waiting for years to get medals of any color for "gloating."

 

[skatingguy]

Whether they believe her or not is not my point. She is probably as confused by how it got into her system as much as anyone, so they came up with a theory of how it possibly could have happened.

My point was that it is strange the 15 year old swimmer caught twice for doping, didn't even have to offer on the balance of probabilities how the drugs ended up in her system, she merely said I don't know it must have been either contamination or sabotage. All she got was a reprimand and WADA ticked off on this.

It's so bizarre how one athlete can get 4 years for one positive test of a trace amount, and the other received no punishment for two positive tests. Kamila at least attempted to come up with a theory as to how it was in her body, the swimmer shrugged her shoulders and said it must have been contamination or sabotage.

No wonder some people start to think this is all politically motivated (I'm not one of those people of course).

We have no information to indicate that WADA has been involved in the case of the Jamaican swimmer. That decision was made by Independent Anti-Doping Panel of Jamaica. I've looked by I have not found any information about a WADA appeal, but because of the relative low level of that case it's possible it doesn't have much publicity.

 

[Caliban]

.That was literally their argument

And no one has evidence that this argument wasn't truth. It is people such as you who decide without questions that ONLY EXPLANATION is Russia is guilty of doping of minor.

 

[skatingguy]

Of course WADA is guilty before proven innocent they can play God with athletes careers. It might be the most unjust tribunal system in the world many innocent athletes have been caught in the net over the years (also missed many dopers right under their nose as well).

But I'm not WADA, and I don't have to accuse an athlete of being a willful doper if they are found to have had a trace amount of a common heart drug in their system. I can explore all possible theories. WADA only explores one theory: Failed test = doper. There is no room for nuance.

I think Kamila is as confused as anyone as to how the drug got into her system.

There is absolutely room for nuance, and we'll no more once the full decision, and supporting documentation is released, but based on what has been reported so far Valieva's representatives presented no evidence to indicate that the positive test was as a result of contamination or unintentional ingestion.

 

[skatingguy]

If you're looking for someone who is excusing any drug cheat, then you're talking to the wrong man.

I advocate a lifetime ban for any drug cheat. I don't care if that individual is from Russia or is my next-door neighbor.

I think the IOC should take ownership of this. Forget WADA, forget the sports federations, ignore the critics. I think it is within the IOC's power to disqualify any drug cheat from ever appearing in the Olympic Games. If they do that, it will go a long way in fixing the doping issue in sports.

Edit: For example, I was and remain horrified that Justin Gatlin was allowed to compete in the Olympics once his ban had expired, and ashamed that he stood on the medal podium. This is not a nationalistic issue for me.

The IOC tried to ban athletes for life for any doping violation at the Olympics. That decision was appealed to CAS, and CAS overturned the decision. The IOC does not have the authority to ban an athlete for life for doping.

 

[Skating91]

We have no information to indicate that WADA has been involved in the case of the Jamaican swimmer. That decision was made by Independent Anti-Doping Panel of Jamaica. I've looked by I have not found any information about a WADA appeal, but because of the relative low level of that case it's possible it doesn't have much publicity.

WADA would have been made aware of IADP's decision and have the right to appeal, which seems like they didn't.

 

[jgg220]

And no one has evidence that this argument wasn't truth. It is people such as you who decide without questions that ONLY EXPLANATION is Russia is guilty of doping of minor.

I'm not going to argue with you about grandpa's drinking water, but I want to point out I did not say that "Russia" was guilty of anything. If I had to speculate about whether the doping was intentional and, if so, who was responsible for it, I certainly could. However, I'm not going to do that here and, even if I did, the word "Russia" would not be involved.

 

[skatingguy]

WADA would have been made aware of IADP's decision and have the right to appeal, which seems like they didn't.

That's just it. This is a relatively low profile case that is not getting attention outside of swimming blogs because this athlete is competing in high school meets, and junior competitions. There may be an appeal that hasn't been publicized, but it could take up to two years for that process to be completed.