Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Jumping_Bean]

Funny thing is that Canadian Fed seems for some unknown reason cant find the rule which say that Rule 353 must be used in such circumstances for TEAM EVENT. Any one know why they cant find such rule?

And ISU is treating this exactly as ONE EVENT, so they simply substract Kami score from ROC score and this is all. For ISU there are no separate results in pairs, dance, singles, for them there is only total result for event.

So Canadian Fed must find the rule about which i said, or they must convince ISU that rule 353 is indeed applicable here. And for some reason i think that such attempt will take a lot of work and time from their and ISU lawyers.

QUALIFICATION SYSTEM FOR XXIV OLYMPIC WINTER GAMES, BEIJING 2022 - Figure Skating
ANNEX A – OLYMPIC FIGURE SKATING TEAM EVENT
4) ISU JUDGING SYSTEM – RESULT DETERMINATION
The ISU Judging System as described in the 2020 ISU Special Regulations Single and Pair Skating/Ice Dance shall apply, in particular but not limited to Rule 352 and Rule 353.

So either Rule 353 applies to the whole team (in which case the whole team would have to be disqualified, and the teams below moved up one spot each), or it applies to each individual part of the team event and the women placed below Kamila have to be moved up one spot each as a result of her disqualification.

 

[Skating91]

Someone else waded through the ISU rulebook, which presumably was what the Olympics were using, and it sounds like Canada has a legitimate complaint under rule 353, which states, thanks to this site-

TSX BULLETIN: ISU re-scoring of the Beijing 2022 Team Event appears to contradict its own rules! - The Sports Examiner

★ The Sports Examiner: Chronicling the key competitive, economic and political forces shaping elite sport and the Olympic Movement.★ ★ To get The Sports Examiner by e-mail: sign up here! ★ ★ Friends: The bill is in for technical support costs. Donors have already picked up 30% of the total, but...

www.thesportsexaminer.com

Rule 11.2.2 of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules is in a section titled “Consequences to Teams” and states:

“An anti-doping rule violation committed by a member of a team, including substitutes, occurring during or in connection with an Event may lead to Disqualification of all of the results obtained by the team in that Event with all Consequences for the team and its members, including forfeiture of all medals, points and prizes, except as provided in Article 11.2.3.”

The anti-doping rule violation occurred at the Russian championships 6 weeks prior to the team event, not during on in connection with the Olympics. Kamila tested clean at the Olympics.

Even more important is Rule 353 of the ISU’s Special Regulations for Technical Rules for Singles, Pairs and Ice Dance.

In section 4, titled “Publication of Results,” the text is clear about scoring for disqualified competitors:

“Disqualified Competitors will lose their placements and be officially noted in the intermediate and final results as disqualified (DSQ). Competitors having finished the competition and who initially placed lower than the disqualified Competitor(s) will move up accordingly in their placement(s).”

It's clear what happens to the skaters not to the points in a team event. There's often a gap in these rules. You see this in F1 in the sporting regulations.

Logically, if you disqualify Kamila and remove her 10 points from the overall tally, you then can't go and award someone else 10 points. That's two skaters scoring 10 points.

Rearranging scores like this in the team event opens a can of worms and sets a precedent that could create a mess maybe it causes a team not involved in the disqualification to moved from 3rd to 4th several years down the track through the redistribution of points. No country would accept that.

With Kamila being disqualified in the short program an argument could be made Germany should receive 6 points for what the would have received had they participated in the free skate.

Canada just need to respect the decision of the ISU, much like Kamila has respected the decision of WADA even though she should be quite aggrieved an adult can get two years for claiming contaminated tap water, and Kamila claims contaminated food and gets four years as a child. In fact WADA were demanding four years for Kamila back in 2022 while the investigation by RUSADA was ongoing. It's quite terrible.

Hopefully they scrap the team event in future these medal really devalue what an Olympic figure skating medal represents. It's a little bit like winning a medal at a World Team Trophy it only means something to the members of the team that were never good enough to win medals in individual events.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Canada just need to respect the decision of the ISU, much like Kamila has respected the decision of WADA.

WADA did not make any decision on Kamila's case, her punishment was decided by CAS. Just as the team medals will now be decided on by CAS.

(And yes, that distinction is important. Just as it's important to mention that CAS still punished the adult athlete you keep on talking about with a six-month ban despite her both being able to prove that her positive result was the result of contamination and that she had taken the same brand of supplements for many years without problems, i.e. that there was no significant fault on her part)

 

[Skating91]

WADA did not make any decision on Kamila's case, her punishment was decided by CAS. Just as the team medals will now be decided on by CAS.

(And yes, that distinction is important. Just as it's important to mention that CAS still punished the adult athlete you keep on talking about with a six-month ban despite her both being able to prove that her positive result was the result of contamination and that she had taken the same brand of supplements for many years without problems)

Sorry, CAS. I do understand the distinction just write many posts.

Yes, but WADA were happy with the initial punishment of 2 years for a tap water defense made by an adult. But were insisting on 4 years for 15 year old Kamila before the investigation had finished. Disgraceful.

I don't think CAS will get involved they will have all kinds of sports asking them to resolve petty squabbles over interpretations of their regulations. At the end of the day they will say the ISU has the authority to make the final decision.

 

[Skating91]

They say that she wasn’t the only one who had problems with the samples. Allegedly, one athlete asked WADA officials in Tallinn to speed up the verification of the sample because his sample had not been tested until now. And it seems that the result came to him a month after the laboratory received the sample (this is around January 29-30).

It is so unacceptable to have children being forced into cornering WADA officials at a tournament begging for their samples to be processed. Total clown show.

There is an obligation for the test results to be updated in ADAMS no latter than 21 days after the sample was taken. What was it with Valieva 45 days? Still with the athletes who received them late January is was still two weeks late. Yet people just give a free pass for the lab, blame RUSADA, blame the coaches, blame Valieva's mother, blame Valieva. They were literally corning officials at an event. So the children are not only responsible for themselves but responsible for WADA and their labs?

But if someone like Grassl fails to update ADAMS for whatever reason, that doesn't matter to WADA. He's 100% responsible and accountable (fair enough). It seems all these organisations have ZERO accountability.

 

[DancingCactus]

hu? It's on the athlete, not on the labs. Valieva was found guilty of doping, she couldn't prove that it was not intentional. That is not the lab's fault. You may not like the results, but if the athlete is not clean, it's on them and if the test is late, then it's still not the lab's fault that the test is positive. Maybe if the test had come back earlier Valieva wouldn't have been sent to the Olympics and would have been banned straight away. But the fact that she tested postive would not have changed and that is the core issue. Everything else is just shifting the blame from the person who was found guilty of doping.

And if Daniel Grassl, an adult, manages to not show up for three tests in a row, it's hardly WADA's fault.

 

[icewhite]

Sorry, CAS. I do understand the distinction just write many posts.

Yes, but WADA were happy with the initial punishment of 2 years for a tap water defense made by an adult. But were insisting on 4 years for 15 year old Kamila before the investigation had finished. Disgraceful.

I don't think CAS will get involved they will have all kinds of sports asking them to resolve petty squabbles over interpretations of their regulations. At the end of the day they will say the ISU has the authority to make the final decision.

It doesn't really matter that she was 15. CAS even emphasized that. If people got less punishment because they are minors that would encourage ruthless adults to dope minors.
You take part in a senior competition - you are treated as a senior. And she doesn't go to jail. Her punishment is only affecting her life in terms of sports. If you don't want that for your daughter, your pupil, yourself - don't take part in these competitions. WADA or anyone did not force her to.

Apart from that, all this talk about how her life is ruined, her career destroyed - let's be honest here, first of all she continued skating as if nothing happened the last two years. Yes, her results will be taken, but in these two years Russia made her a real star, she earned money, she got fame, her name is now so big that she is not going to fall no matter her official titles. Secondly, nobody needs to act as if she as an Eteri girl was ever meant to skate well into her 20s. That's not what Eteri plans for these girls, it's not how their training volume or their technique is handled. The most likely case if there had been no doping case would have been her stopping to skate competitively between 15 and 17 anyway.
If she's really set on returning, and if she's really such an amazingly unique talent, she will be able to do so in the future. People have been out of skating due to injuries for two years and returned. The way she skated in these two seasons does not let me think that she's currently at her peak and this peak is wasted. She's either in a transitioning phase or in the end stages of her career anyway for totally different reasons.

They have made her one of the biggest stars figure skating ever saw in Russia. She's going to be fine.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I don't think CAS will get involved they will have all kinds of sports asking them to resolve petty squabbles over interpretations of their regulations. At the end of the day they will say the ISU has the authority to make the final decision.

That's actually exactly the job of CAS, funnily enough. It's a court of arbitration, and the function of courts of arbitration is to resolve civil disputes (in the case of the court of arbitration for sport in the field of sports). Any disputes involving the Olympics have to be appealed before CAS, other disputes can be appealed if the parties involved recognise the jurisdiction of CAS.

 

[icewhite]

It is so unacceptable to have children being forced into cornering WADA officials at a tournament begging for their samples to be processed. Total clown show.

There is an obligation for the test results to be updated in ADAMS no latter than 21 days after the sample was taken. What was it with Valieva 45 days? Still with the athletes who received them late January is was still two weeks late. Yet people just give a free pass for the lab, blame RUSADA, blame the coaches, blame Valieva's mother, blame Valieva. They were literally corning officials at an event. So the children are not only responsible for themselves but responsible for WADA and their labs?

But if someone like Grassl fails to update ADAMS for whatever reason, that doesn't matter to WADA. He's 100% responsible and accountable (fair enough). It seems all these organisations have ZERO accountability.

All the doping agencies have serious funding issues, there was an additional backload because of Covid, there was a possibility to mark the sample as priority. If you think they don't have the staff they should have you can donate.

 

[ChiGal]

The Russian team hasn't been allowed to compete under their own flag for how many Olympics now? Is that not due to widespread doping? They're lucky they even get to compete. But they're still doping, and then they get their medals taken away. Lesson apparently not learned. Let's not act too surprised. Kamila is being used here, and yes, it sucks for her. But as someone stated earlier in this thread, if you skate as a senior then you follow the "senior" rules. Not sure why the Russian powers-that-be are not going after her coaches and skating school, something that should have been targeted from day one. The scoring issue for the bronze is a mess for sure...lets just award the gold and silver medals, and mail out the bronze when resolved, since the Russian team probably couldn't travel out of their country anyways due to other "political issues."

 

[Skating91]

hu? It's on the athlete, not on the labs. Valieva was found guilty of doping, she couldn't prove that it was not intentional. That is not the lab's fault. You may not like the results, but if the athlete is not clean, it's on them and if the test is late, then it's still not the lab's fault that the test is positive. Maybe if the test had come back earlier Valieva wouldn't have been sent to the Olympics and would have been banned straight away. But the fact that she tested postive would not have changed and that is the core issue. Everything else is just shifting the blame from the person who was found guilty of doping.

And if Daniel Grassl, an adult, manages to not show up for three tests in a row, it's hardly WADA's fault.

It was the lab's fault that Valieva skated in the team event. Had the result been returned 30 hours earlier then of course Russia could have put any top 15 female skater from Russian championships in her place and secured gold. The medal debacle is 100% the fault of lab, not RUSADA or ROC or Valieva as I have said all along. However, now we are learning that Russian skaters were forced to corner WADA officials at the European championships in order to beg for their test results to be returned. From what I've read, it's quite normal for the results to be updated in ADAMS 5-10 days after the lab receives the sample, but they are obligated to have the test completed and ADAMS updated with 21 days.

This is not the skater's responsibility, it is the responsibility of WADA's lab 100%. The children can't be held responsible for EVERYTHING and EVERYONE.

 

[Skating91]

All the doping agencies have serious funding issues, there was an additional backload because of Covid, there was a possibility to mark the sample as priority. If you think they don't have the staff they should have you can donate.

Please, the excuses have to end.

The sample was received by the lab December 27th. The Olympics weren't until February 6th. Why would they have marked it as a high priority. High priority is for when you need something tested immediately upon receipt. Why would they need it tested December 28th? The result was supposed to have been returned and updated in ADAMS no later than January 16th. This is why skaters had resorted to cornering WADA officials at Europeans demanding their results, then they still dragged their feet and took another two weeks to return the result.

I guess COVID and all the delays cleared up on February 8th and they were able to update ADAMS for Valieva.

Valieva for a trace amount of something in her system, which she probably still has no idea how it got there, is paying the heaviest price for the smallest of errors. She's taking responsibility and she's a child.

This lab and WADA, and never taken responsibility for something so simple as returning a result within 43 days instead of 45. Just blame everything and everyone else.

This should be taken in to account when distributing the team medals and why Valieva should be stripped but the rest of the team keep the gold.

 

[Skating91]

That's actually exactly the job of CAS, funnily enough. It's a court of arbitration, and the function of courts of arbitration is to resolve civil disputes (in the case of the court of arbitration for sport in the field of sports). Any disputes involving the Olympics have to be appealed before CAS, other disputes can be appealed if the parties involved recognise the jurisdiction of CAS.

Not for something so trivial as this. They exist for genuine disputes. They will refer to the ISU regulations and see the distribution of points can be interpreted in several different ways, and ask the ISU to make the final decision. This is the equivalent of wanting a score in a championship basketball game overturned because a shot should have been disallowed, etc.

How the ISU has done it is perfectly logical. If they start redistributing the points the would have to change the points tally for every single team. This is a very clean way to do it you put a cross through Russia's 74 and make it 54. Japan are moved up to first place in the short and free. You can't add 10 points to Japan's tally because ROC has already had those 10 points deducted from the tally.

 

[Minz]

How the ISU has done it is perfectly logical. If they start redistributing the points the would have to change the points tally for every single team. This is a very clean way to do it you put a cross through Russia's 74 and make it 54. Japan are moved up to first place in the short and free. You can't add 10 points to Japan's tally because ROC has already had those 10 points deducted from the tally.

If you move one team up and give them one extra point, then you have to move up the others and give everyone an extra point. If you do that, Canada gets 55 points and thus bronze.

The case is that the ISU moved everyone up one spot for Europeans and the individual event. But they didn't in the team event, which doesn't make sense.

 

[Skating91]

It doesn't really matter that she was 15. CAS even emphasized that. If people got less punishment because they are minors that would encourage ruthless adults to dope minors.
You take part in a senior competition - you are treated as a senior. And she doesn't go to jail. Her punishment is only affecting her life in terms of sports. If you don't want that for your daughter, your pupil, yourself - don't take part in these competitions. WADA or anyone did not force her to.

15 year olds are protected people under WADA rules. This is why the 15 year old swimmer who had multiple drugs in multiple tests in her system was given a mere reprimand, while WADA were gagging for a 4 year suspension of Valieva before the investigation in 2022 had even concluded.

Cox as an adult used the excuse of tainted tap water and only received two years, all signed off by WADA. Total hypocrisy. I don't know how anyone can defend WADA on this, unless someone genuinely believes people should be punished based on race, passport, country of origin, etc. I can't think of any other reason why for such different punishments.

 

[icewhite]

15 year olds are protected people under WADA rules. This is why the 15 year old swimmer who had multiple drugs in multiple tests in her system was given a mere reprimand, while WADA were gagging for a 4 year suspension of Valieva before the investigation in 2022 had even concluded.

Cox as an adult used the excuse of tainted tap water and only received two years, all signed off by WADA. Total hypocrisy. I don't know how anyone can defend WADA on this, unless someone genuinely believes people should be punished based on race, passport, country of origin, etc. I can't think of any other reason why for such different punishments.

Yeah I don't even know why I react to your trolling.

 

[Skating91]

If you move one team up and give them one extra point, then you have to move up the others and give everyone an extra point. If you do that, Canada gets 55 points and thus bronze.

The case is that the ISU moved everyone up one spot for Europeans and the individual event. But they didn't in the team event, which doesn't make sense.

Kamila who received 10 points in each program, has been disqualified therefore her 10 points she scored from each program have been removed from her team's overall tally.

And they've moved everyone up the team event the Japanese skaters are first in both now. Everyone moved up one place. You can't give two skaters 10 points in the same event.

 

[Minz]

Kamila who received 10 points in each program, has been disqualified therefore her 10 points she scored from each program have been removed from her team's overall tally.

And they've moved everyone up the team event the Japanese skaters are first in both now. Everyone moved up one place. You can't give two skaters 10 points in the same event.

Yes but because they moved up, they get the extra point. Valieva doesn't get 10 points, so only one skater is getting 10 points. Or else, what's the point of moving anyone up if they don't get the points?

 

[macy]

Kamila who received 10 points in each program, has been disqualified therefore her 10 points she scored from each program have been removed from her team's overall tally.

And they've moved everyone up the team event the Japanese skaters are first in both now. Everyone moved up one place. You can't give two skaters 10 points in the same event.

you're completely missing the problem here.

They did not reallocate points to the new winners. the skaters who moved up a placement because of Valieva's DQ retained the same amount of points they had as second place finishers. as a result, Valieva is essentially retaining 2 points despite being disqualified which is the difference of who gets the bronze medal. they moved everyone else up in the other events affected by her DQ except for the Olympic team competition. it's pretty obvious what they were trying to do for Russia here.

 

[Amei]

I'm curious why the tap water defense wasn't used for Valieva that Cox had successfully used. The "source of the drug" has been a credibility problem (IMO) of Valieva's defense since the emergency hearing - originally it being that she drank after her grandfather and managed to ingest pill fragments, then it seems that they settled on as someone with a food allergy would say "cross contamination" in the kitchen.