Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Baron Vladimir]

So, to summarize, i see a reason why ROC is stripped of the gold medal. However, I see no reason why Kamila got 4 years ban (instead one), and how all that drama at Olympics is her or even ROC fault (instead of the organizations around them).
Those anti doping organizations are not doing their works properly and that is the main conclusion of this topic for me! And now, lets investigate how those organizations are working and who sponsored them... Not Mask, i guess

 

[norwegianfairytale]

I was talking a lot of that in only one year during the Corona outbreak to be fair. There is nothing wrong to take those supplements in the period of two years, especially if you are a world top athlete and there is a deadly virus around you

The list only tells us what was reported in the 2 years period, and we don´t know how long she has been going on those supplement, but it´s likely this represents a pretty normal amount of supplements for the skaters of this coaching team, and also for a longer period of time and that it could have been avoided if there was a normal diet.

In Norway, only recommendations for professional athletes to take as supplement is Omega 3/cod liver oil, because of the lack of sun in winter. It says that other supplements is not recommended with a balanced and healthy diet, and other supplements is only recommended if you have deficiency shown at blood work. If you don´t have a medical condition, there no reason to have deficiency because proper nutrition is always first choice. It also emphasize that supplements increase the risk of contamination of substance that could lead to a positive drug test.

Source: https://olympiatoppen.no/fagomrader/idrettspsernaering/faktaark/fakta-om-kosttilskudd-og-idrett/

Skating club advice to this site for nutrition in figure skating.

I do not find it hard to believe that in some environment different kind of supplements are considered normal for professional athletes, but let us not normalize this because that also implies not having sufficient nutrition.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

The list only tells us what was reported in the 2 years period, and we don´t know how long she has been going on those supplement, but it´s likely this represents a pretty normal amount of supplements for the skaters of this coaching team, and also for a longer period of time and that it could have been avoided if there was a normal diet.

In Norway, only recommendations for professional athletes to take as supplement is Omega 3/cod liver oil, because of the lack of sun in winter. It says that other supplements is not recommended with a balanced and healthy diet, and other supplements is only recommended if you have deficiency shown at blood work. If you don´t have a medical condition, there no reason to have deficiency because proper nutrition is always first choice. It also emphasize that supplements increase the risk of contamination of substance that could lead to a positive drug test.

Source: https://olympiatoppen.no/fagomrader/idrettspsernaering/faktaark/fakta-om-kosttilskudd-og-idrett/

Skating club advice to this site for nutrition in figure skating.

I do not find it hard to believe that in some environment different kind of supplements are considered normal for professional athletes, but let us not normalize this because that also implies not having sufficient nutrition.

I dont want to go in any further argument, but you can imagine what Ole Einar Bjørndalen is taking to treat his asthma by being a top athlete in a sport where breathing is fundamental (I adore to watch biathlon so)

 

[thorag]

So we have banned the teenager for 4 years (as expected) and all the adults around her walked away without any consequences. We have learned nothing...

Well they could go after the grandfather

 

[norwegianfairytale]

I dont want to go in any further argument, but you can imagine what Ole Einar Bjørndalen is taking to treat his asthma by being a top athlete in a sport where breathing is fundamental (I adore biathlon yes )

I was talking in general about vitamins and mineral supplements, not medicine needed for medical conditions. Asthma medicine is a completely another discussion.

 

[midori green]

I also appreciate the point that "positive doping test" does not necessarily mean "cheater." Ingesting something due to negligence is not the same as taking something on purpose, but you're still responsible for yourself (and your test result).

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I was talking in general about vitamins and mineral supplements, not medicine needed for medical conditions. Asthma medicine is a completely another discussion.

But treating professional athletes who already suffer of the disease they have - asthma or ADHD in a sport where those deficiencies are crucial to be a top athlete would be the same scenario if they prescribed to Kamila legal medicine for the heart disease, instead of the usage of the supplements... This is much worse for athletes health, than supplements - if you have asthma or ADHD or hearth disease just tell the people they should not thrive to be a top athlete - that was my point. But the world of professional sport is not working like that, nor in Russia, nor in USA, nor in Norway...

 

[Alex Fedorov]

But treating professional athletes who already suffer of the disease they have - asthma or ADHD in a sport where those deficiencies are crucial to be a top athlete would be the same scenario if they prescribed to Kamila legal medicine for the heart disease, instead of the usage of the supplements... This is much worse for athletes health, than supplements - if you have asthma or ADHD or hearth disease just tell the people they should not thrive to be a top athlete - that was my point. But the world of professional sport is not working like that, nor in Russia, nor in USA, nor in Norway...

Asthma medications, by the way, significantly increase oxygen absorption and make breathing easier. And I was previously assured on this topic that skiers constantly breathe cold air and therefore often suffer from asthma. But at a skating rink, ice also creates cold air. To feel this, it is enough to attend competitions and sit in the seats located in the lower rows. And if we’re going to cheat, why not fabricate a diagnosis in which the skater is declared sick? This will increase endurance much more effectively than TMZ with its unproven effects.

 

[Sjs5572]

So, to summarize, i see a reason why ROC is stripped of the gold medal. However, I see no reason why Kamila got 4 years ban (instead one), and how all that drama at Olympics is her or even ROC fault (instead of the organizations around them).
Those anti doping organizations are not doing their works properly and that is the main conclusion of this topic for me! And now, lets investigate how those organizations are working and who sponsored them... Not Mask, i guess

How about we go back to letting Russian labs test their Russian athletes. In this way, I can guarantee, there won't be any elite athlete positive tests, late or otherwise!

 

[el henry]

If if if if if if if if if if if

If wishes were horses then beggars would ride. Meaningless.

Kamila Valieva was found with an illegal drug in her system,. Period. End of story.

Her results, and those of any team depending on her results, are invalidated. Period. End of story.

RUSADA, RusFed, and her coaching and medical team failed this young woman. Period. End of story. No wonder they didn't want this decision, which makes them look either like fools or like entities/people who could give a rat's patootie about Kamila, public.

If if if if if if if does not change that state of affairs.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Kamila Valieva was found with an illegal drug in her system,. Period. End of story.

Sha'Carri Richardson was found with a drug a year ago, and she is a 100m world champion now... So, what? (And Im not ironic now, i see no problem in it, its not the end of the world if you failed one doping test, especially from the organizations who cant do that doping test properly)... So, i dont see any point in your period, to be fair...

 

[Sjs5572]

Sha'Carri Richardson was found with a drug a year ago, and she is a 100m world champion now... So, what? (And Im not ironic now, i see no problem in it, its not the end of the world if you failed one doping test, especially from the organizations who cant do that doping test properly)... So, i dont see any point in your period, to be fair...

So disingenuous. Richardson's drug was not a PED.

 

[Arwen17]

The list only tells us what was reported in the 2 years period, and we don´t know how long she has been going on those supplement, but it´s likely this represents a pretty normal amount of supplements for the skaters of this coaching team, and also for a longer period of time and that it could have been avoided if there was a normal diet.

In Norway, only recommendations for professional athletes to take as supplement is Omega 3/cod liver oil, because of the lack of sun in winter. It says that other supplements is not recommended with a balanced and healthy diet, and other supplements is only recommended if you have deficiency shown at blood work. If you don´t have a medical condition, there no reason to have deficiency because proper nutrition is always first choice. It also emphasize that supplements increase the risk of contamination of substance that could lead to a positive drug test.

Source: https://olympiatoppen.no/fagomrader/idrettspsernaering/faktaark/fakta-om-kosttilskudd-og-idrett/

Skating club advice to this site for nutrition in figure skating.

I do not find it hard to believe that in some environment different kind of supplements are considered normal for professional athletes, but let us not normalize this because that also implies not having sufficient nutrition.

We don't how many supplements she was taking at the same time. There are no dates for each one. She may have started one, decided it was useless, and moved on to another one.

It's actually really, really easy to hit the daily RDA for every nutrient in very few calories. I've been doing it for years at this point, so I can spend the rest of the day eating whatever since I've already hit my RDA for everything.

For example, I can literally hit every RDA nutrient level with just a single daily smoothie: 1lb of spinach, 2 cups of fortified orange juice, a serving of naked pea protein powder and a single multivitamin pill. And it only totals up to 588cal max. After that, it's just a question of how many potatoes or beans or rice (aka high carb) you need to eat to maintain energy and weight based on your activity level. Hitting RDA values every day doesn't require a ton of snake oil pills to keep nutrition very high while controlling calories for whatever you need it to be.

Why is KV taking so many snake oil supplements? I don't understand it at all.

Maybe since no dates are listed she was bouncing between various supplements over time.
Being an athlete, I could see how mom or whoever would be trying to "help" by walking thru the pill aisle at the grocery store. *eye roll* I mean so many normal people do that too... when the real answer is just eat healthy and stop fretting/stressing so much and thinking you're going to find the "magic" answer in each new bottle you see.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

So disingenuous. Richardson's drug was not a PED.

That was exactly my point... So, opposite of you, I will stand and defend every athlete, no matter the coaches or states she belongs to or personal preferences she has...

 

[TallyT]

"There is no evidence from the Athlete that Mr Solovyov exists"

I saw that and I swear, if a fiction writer tried this they would be called out for terminal damage to suspension of disbelief till it disintegrates... but I have to say, as sarcasm in purest officialese, this sentence is succinct brilliance.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

Asthma medications, by the way, significantly increase oxygen absorption and make breathing easier. And I was previously assured on this topic that skiers constantly breathe cold air and therefore often suffer from asthma. But at a skating rink, ice also creates cold air. To feel this, it is enough to attend competitions and sit in the seats located in the lower rows. And if we’re going to cheat, why not fabricate a diagnosis in which the skater is declared sick? This will increase endurance much more effectively than TMZ with its unproven effects.

Here we go with whataboutism to avoid the actual subject and make 60 supplements seems like an innocent act of play and ignoring the concerns about the young athlete taking supplements not needed for medical reasons.

I´m wondering, how does athletes fabricate diagnosis to get a certain medication? Doctors could loose their medical license for giving described medicine fabricating diagnosis, surely they could perhaps even go to jail for fabricating. To get asthma medicine you need a diagnosis, and for diagnosis you have to actual tests to get it. All predictions medications is recorded in medical system as well as the diagnosis. It´s hard to believe that someone would risk their medical career for giving out medication by fabricating diagnosis.

Btw, the example about Ole Einar Bjørndalen is not even true. Bjørndalen did not have problem with his breath and did not use asthma medication. The allegations were fabricated in Russia media with the voice of Dratschev claiming the whole biathlon team was using asthma medicine, but were untrue allegations. Asthma medication in biathlon is not common because the medicine like Ventoline can give side affects as tremors in hands which are very unlucky during shooting.

 

[Sjs5572]

That was exactly my point... So, opposite of you, I will stand and defend every athlete, no matter the coaches or states she belongs to or personal preferences she has...

That was exactly my point... So, opposite of you, I will stand and defend every athlete, no matter the coaches or states she belongs to or personal preferences she has...

Cannabis not PED. TMZ is PED.
You're comparing apples and strawberries!

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Here we go again with whataboutism to avoid the actual subject and make 60 supplements seems like an innocent act of play and ignoring the concerns about the young athlete taking supplements not needed for medical reasons.

I´m wondering, how does athletes fabricate diagnosis to get a certain medication? Doctors could loose their medical license for giving described medicine fabricating diagnosis, surely they could perhaps even go to jail for fabricating. To get asthma medicine you need a diagnosis, and for diagnosis you have to actual tests to get it. All predictions medications is recorded in medical system as well as the diagnosis.

Btw, the example about Ole Einar Bjørndalen is not even true. Bjørndalen did not have problem with his breath and did not use asthma medication. The allegations were fabricated in Russia media with the voice of Dratschev claiming the whole biathlon team was using asthma medicine, but were untrue allegations. Asthma medication in biathlon is not common because the medicine like Ventoline can give side affects as tremors in hands which are very unlucky during shooting.

Really, all of us on the internet could read which athletes are using which medicine thanks to TUE, and after it some of those top athletes admitted to take those medicines... Dont say to me that i heard that story because of the Russians media, its making me a little bit silly...

 

[TallyT]

I'm sure it's all Kamila's fault of course...

Well did she or did she not invent a grandfather? That's the big question, and we don't actually know.

So, to summarize, i see a reason why ROC is stripped of the gold medal. However, I see no reason why Kamila got 4 years ban (instead one), and how all that drama at Olympics is her or even ROC fault (instead of the organizations around them).

I'm cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if a small sliver of the penalty is for insulting the intelligence of the official bodies with these stories and expecting them to swallow them. And yes, I know athletes have offered just as silly ones before and will afterwards. Still insulting.

Well they could go after the grandfather

They have to actually establish he and his medicine and his glass of water and his strawberry dessert exist first.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

Really, all of us on the internet could read which athletes are using which medicine thanks to TUE, and after it some of those top athletes admitted to take those medicines...

I´m not sure what athletes you are talking about, but Bjørndalen did not have asthma or take medications for it.